Rise of the Radical Religious Right-(Read it first, b4 you decide to lynch me)

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

(because the United States was founded on Christian principles ... sorry atheists

)

No, you're wrong. Sorry Christians. If that was true there would be mention of that in the constitution or bill or rights. Yet not even once do we find "Christ, Christian, Lord, Lord God, Yahweh, Jesus, etc." If we were founded on "Christian Principles" some mention of Christianity would have been said.

It's not. Even you admit "The Government has to be Neutral." Christianity is not Neutral.

You keep espousing fallacies. The United States was founded on Christian principles. just get over yourself and your made up imaginary ideology that the United States was founded on your secular ideals, because it wasn't.

You should really read the three documents that founded the United States.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: BubbaJoe

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
Common sense would tell you that the sentence - "In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity" - doesn't specifically address "the golden rule". It isn't even a part of Judaism, Islam, Sikhism, Buddhism, Neopaganism, Polytheism, Hellenism, Ayyavhazism, Rastafarianism, Shabakism, et. el.

It is ... specifically ... a Christian belief.

So, there you have it. It is NOT secularism - and yes, those of us that are educated do know the futile attempt to insert and impose that on the rest of us.

Unfortunately those educated by Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and the Liberty University are giving non-dominionist christians a bad name, and causing a lot of folks to paint them with a very broad and evil brush.

Since when have Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell ever been considered educators? If you educate yourself on the facts, and not on the indoctrinated rhetoric that passes for a modern day liberal arts education, then you would come to the conclusion that the United States was founded on Christian principles. The 1st Amendment was not written to infringe on religious liberty - rather, that religious tyranny (i.e. the CoE) could not cause religious persecution (i.e. the CoE). How do you prevent religious tyranny? Well, first and foremost, you do not allow an established religion to govern. You do not force people to attend a church sanctioned by the State (i.e. the CoE).

You might have noticed I keep referencing the Church of England. It is kind of important to understand the roots of the Anglican Church in order to understand why the 1st Amendment was written. The modern day mis-interpretation of the 1st Amendment is an attempt to have atheism established by the U.S. Government (i.e. secularism). This is exactly what the 1st Amendment was written for - to avoid any set of spiritual beliefs (or lack thereof) from governing. The Government must remain neutral. An endorsement of secularism, polytheism or monotheism does not mean the Government is establishing a religion. It is when they force you to adhere to those beliefs when it is an establishment.

Anyways ... having said that, the first Continental Congress convened with prayer. Every U.S. President is sworn in by a member of the Christian clergy.

(because the United States was founded on Christian principles ... sorry atheists

)

The president is sworn in by the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, who is not ordained clergy. My understanding of the laws of the United States was developed through my secular/public education, and is not clouded by an imaginary friend in the sky. I do not claim that there is nothing larger than I in the universe, however my exposure to the Christian faith over long periods of my life, has left me wanting to find a better way to live than these so called Christians.

thetablet.org...

The tradition of the president using a Bible for the ceremony dates back to George Washington, who used one from the collection of St. John’s Masonic Lodge in 1789. There is no constitutional requirement to use a Bible, but many presidents have chosen Bibles that had historical or personal significance.

once again ... sorry atheists, your propaganda has failed

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
You keep espousing fallacies. The United States was founded on Christian principles. just get over yourself and your made up imaginary ideology that the United States was founded on your secular ideals, because it wasn't.

You should really read the three documents that founded the United States.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

Yeah, you keep saying that. You're a broken record. You're wrong and it's been shown by not just me but others as well. In fact it's been argued here many times and YOU'RE WRONG.

I've read them a few times and YOU'RE WRONG.

The word "Creator" is not Christ, Jesus, Lord God or Yahweh. Deal with it. They held various Religious Beliefs not just Christian. Some of them were also Masons who believe in the Great Architect. They were Deists and held different beliefs. Otherwise they would have used the word Christian within those documents, but they didn't. So again, YOU'RE WRONG.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
The tradition of the president using a Bible for the ceremony dates back to George Washington, who used one from the collection of St. John’s Masonic Lodge in 1789. There is no constitutional requirement to use a Bible, but many presidents have chosen Bibles that had historical or personal significance.

once again ... sorry atheists, your propaganda has failed

So because many Presidents choose to swear in on a Bible that means this is a Christian Nation??? I don't think so. It even says no requirement to use a Bible. Does Christianity ever allow you to swear upon or even use some other Religious Icon or Idol or anything???? NO, it absolutely commands you don't. So therefor NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. YOU'RE WRONG!!

once again, sorry Christian Zealots, your propaganda has failed and will continue to fail because we've heard it all before and it was BS then and it's still BS now.

The radical right existed before the
French revolution
That was how everyone thought
Back then
Before reason took over there minds

I am a man of faith
I believe in jesus

originally posted by: mOjOm

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
You keep espousing fallacies. The United States was founded on Christian principles. just get over yourself and your made up imaginary ideology that the United States was founded on your secular ideals, because it wasn't.

You should really read the three documents that founded the United States.

"We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness"

Yeah, you keep saying that. You're a broken record. You're wrong and it's been shown by not just me but others as well. In fact it's been argued here many times and YOU'RE WRONG.

I've read them a few times and YOU'RE WRONG.

The word "Creator" is not Christ, Jesus, Lord God or Yahweh. Deal with it. They held various Religious Beliefs not just Christian. Some of them were also Masons who believe in the Great Architect. They were Deists and held different beliefs. Otherwise they would have used the word Christian within those documents, but they didn't. So again, YOU'RE WRONG.

You are the one that is WRONG. For one thing, your argument that the United States was established as a secular nation falls flat on its face when the word "creator" appears in one of the three founding documents. You must be on a level of idiocy that most people of your ilk and ideological camaraderie can only dare to dream of. Secondly, yet another founding document (the very first one) clearly references Christ, in the very first sentence.

So not only are you WRONG, you are now espousing your wrongness intentionally to deceive others - which is wrong by the way.

cheers!

a reply to: GeisterFahrer

You do know Creator was not in the first 2 drafts of the Declaration, right?

More like it was tagged on the end as an after thought, or to appease one of the more religious participants.

Nevertheless, what we have today is a secular Democratic Republic.

Many people point to the Declaration of Independence as proof of Thomas Jefferson's intentions to create a "Christian nation." In fact, there is nothing in his original draft of the Declaration of Independence to indicate such intentions.

candst.tripod.com...

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

You do know Creator was not in the first 2 drafts of the Declaration, right?

More like it was tagged on the end as an after thought, or to appease one of the more religious participants.

Nevertheless, what we have today is a secular Democratic Republic.

Many people point to the Declaration of Independence as proof of Thomas Jefferson's intentions to create a "Christian nation." In fact, there is nothing in his original draft of the Declaration of Independence to indicate such intentions.

candst.tripod.com...

Thomas Jefferson also authored the 1st Amendment, as well as authored the letter to the Danbury Baptists. The Danbury Baptists had complained that their religious beliefs were being oppressed by the State (at the time, Connecticut had an Established State Religion). The Danbury Baptists understood that the POTUS was not a religious leader, nor head of the church, but simply wrote to him based on an appeal for religious liberty.

When you have actually read the correspondence, and understand the history of the Anglican Church, and how it permeated every aspect of colonial politics (Jefferson was a vestryman with the Anglican Church - you had to be a member of the Anglican Church to hold public office in an English colony), then you will begin to realize why the 1st Amendment was written the way it was - and how vastly different the interpretation of the 1st Amendment is being made by those on the left today.

In other words, there are blatant lies being told here ... a rewriting of history to fit an agenda.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer

originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: GeisterFahrer

You do know Creator was not in the first 2 drafts of the Declaration, right?

More like it was tagged on the end as an after thought, or to appease one of the more religious participants.

Nevertheless, what we have today is a secular Democratic Republic.

Many people point to the Declaration of Independence as proof of Thomas Jefferson's intentions to create a "Christian nation." In fact, there is nothing in his original draft of the Declaration of Independence to indicate such intentions.

candst.tripod.com...

Thomas Jefferson also authored the 1st Amendment, as well as authored the letter to the Danbury Baptists. The Danbury Baptists had complained that their religious beliefs were being oppressed by the State (at the time, Connecticut had an Established State Religion). The Danbury Baptists understood that the POTUS was not a religious leader, nor head of the church, but simply wrote to him based on an appeal for religious liberty.

When you have actually read the correspondence, and understand the history of the Anglican Church, and how it permeated every aspect of colonial politics (Jefferson was a vestryman with the Anglican Church - you had to be a member of the Anglican Church to hold public office in an English colony), then you will begin to realize why the 1st Amendment was written the way it was - and how vastly different the interpretation of the 1st Amendment is being made by those on the left today.

In other words, there are blatant lies being told here ... a rewriting of history to fit an agenda.

They didn't have internet. Letter writing was their blogging.

They all wrote a lot of stuff. Religion was just another topic of discussion. As was politics.

Very easy to pick and choose from their writings. One exerpt from any of them does not reflect the full thoughts of their thinking.

You've looked only for "pieces" to support your agenda.

originally posted by: GeisterFahrer
You are the one that is WRONG. For one thing, your argument that the United States was established as a secular nation falls flat on its face when the word "creator" appears in one of the three founding documents. You must be on a level of idiocy that most people of your ilk and ideological camaraderie can only dare to dream of. Secondly, yet another founding document (the very first one) clearly references Christ, in the very first sentence.

So not only are you WRONG, you are now espousing your wrongness intentionally to deceive others - which is wrong by the way.

cheers!

Obviously clever come-backs aren't your strongest area. But personal attacks seem to be your only weapon left in this argument. Too bad those won't work on me either but it was a nice try.

By all means please show us where "Christ" is mentioned in the founding documents.

Oh yeah and BTW did I mention how WRONG YOU ARE!!!!