Did you know about the 'Kardashev Scale' - Type I, II, III, IV & V ALIEN Civilizations?

originally posted by: Kandinsky

originally posted by: CoBaZ

Makes me worry, what if we are the most advanced on this scale in the universe as of right now?

Might even be worse than that...we could be the only life in the galaxy. When you look up at the stars, it might represent 360 degrees of profound emptiness with nobody else looking back.

That's depressing to think about...

originally posted by: Welsh Jester
Most of what struck me about this scale is the type IV - V Civilizations, they are basically saying time travel/manipulation is possible. Now it just makes me think if anything exists out there capable of doing that. Fascinating and a bit scary at the same time in my opinion.

Yeah, Coming from a Russians thinking,, during the Soviet Era ( Cold War )


and all the groups of Science Fiction , having Theoretical Ideas About
Time Travel / interstellar Space since the 1940s
Through Pulp Mags too Digests of the 1950s from many greats of Scifi Writers

Russian science fiction and fantasy
en.wikipedia.org...


Just to Note..

if it wasn't for Jules Verne ..From the Earth to the Moon

We wouldn't been on the Moon So Quickly

Tsiolkovsky, Goddard and Oberth - Three Fathers of Rocketry
www.museumofflight.org...

Jules Verne’s brilliance as a writer of scientific adventure stories impressed more than the general reading public. Three gifted men, working independently in three different countries, were inspired by Verne’s novel “From the Earth to the Moon.” Konstantin Tsiolkovsky was a self-taught, Russian schoolteacher. Robert Goddard, an American, and Hermann Oberth, a Romanian, were professors of physics. Each explored how rockets could be designed and used for space travel. Today, they are considered to be the “fathers of rocket science.”

Wernher von Braun, Rocket Pioneer: Biography & Quotes
www.space.com...

Wernher von Braun was born in Wirsitz, Germany, on March 23, 1912. The son of a Prussian baron, von Braun was the second of three sons of an aristocratic family. Young von Braun took an interest in the science fiction of Jules Verne and H.G. Wells, but it wasn't until he read the writings of the father of German rocketry, Hermann Oberth, that he applied himself to physics and mathematics, subjects he had previously struggled with in school.

10 Inventions Inspired by Science Fiction
www.toptenz.net...


Time Travel Possible ?

( TED )
Is time travel possible? - Colin Stuart

Time travel is a staple of science fiction stories, but is it actually possible? It turns out nature does allow a way of bending time, an exciting possibility suggested by Albert Einstein when he discovered special relativity over one hundred years ago. Colin Stuart imagines where (or, when) this fascinating phenomenon, time dilation, may one day take us.
ed.ted.com...

originally posted by: OrionHunterX
a reply to: eriktheawful
Amazing! But, any idea when the movie 'Rendezvous With Rama' will ever see the light of day? I've been waiting for its release for years!

Morgan Freeman has been trying to get a movie made out of it for like 15 years now.

I believe as we unlock the secrets of nature and harness greater forms of energy we will be capable of things undreamt of today. Maybe we'll even find some sort of peace or balance.

a reply to: Ghost147

How fortunate that it was indeed the Kardashev scale and not the Kardashian scale, HAHA! The Kardashians are such a foolish and problematic family. Thankfully you and I are more enlightened. BTW, kudos for knowing about the Kardashev scale, and for some time, no less! I really respect you for that.

Interesting question: Who would write a better science fiction novel, you or Kim Kardashian?

I think I fall somewhere in the middle on this. I like the scale as a way to encourage technological growth and innovation, and I agree that any species that has the ability to leap off of its own planet is, no doubt, advanced. I believe the scale may lack an important distinction at stage 1 though, that would probably be at the bedrock of the consciousness of any civilization occupying the later stages. To me an important feature of a developed/advanced organism is a homeostasis (albeit, with room for further evolution) with its immediate surroundings. The implication is crucial to my understanding of the flow of energy in this universe, which can be summarized as inputs and outputs being equal. At the moment we act more or less like a parasite, and any graduation off of this planet, I believe, should score high marks in sustainability first before coughing into the face of the solar system/galaxy and spreading its disease.

In my opinion, not only do we not have enough time to exit the planet before we make it inhospitable for the very civilization we plan to graduate to the stars from, but the very idea that we would place our trust in a projection of future technology so much that we are now expecting some kind of wonder technology as our savior, is just as irresponsible and wasteful of life as waiting for the 2nd coming to justify any lethargy in improving oneself/the human race. It's the Moore's law of theoretical technology that doesn't calculate the most important variable of all technology: that every piece of tech we use is sitting on a giant pile of trophic levels of energy transfer that is deeply rooted in this planet's biology and geologic activity. It is this planet's biological mechanisms that are holistic and thereby outperform our technology by huge leaps...with the exception of moments when we need high specialization of work done.

So, in my view, any type 2 civilization should have in its distant memory a watershed moment where they learned to balance their inputs and outputs (Probably more locally, then by some global trade community. Again, more efficient), with a heavier reliance on the integration of millions of years of biological improvement and would therefore secure for themselves a future on this planet first, despite all climate types and community sizes.

All this to caveat the explanation of a Type 1 civilization that has "learned to harness all of the planets power". Not with technology leading the way, but with appropriate technology being adjunctive to our understanding of needs and yields in a biology-dominate balanced ecosystem. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if complex biological mechanisms will be at the heart of a lot of our future technologies that will make space exploration possible...because a lot of the research/hard work has already been done over millions of years of trial and error.

did your heart skip a beat? lol made the same mistake and was like....wait wh..whuuu???

a reply to: Ghost147

originally posted by: Ghost147
a reply to: Raggedyman

Yes, and that means the concept was based off of science fiction media because...?

The scale doesn't suggest that these civilizations exist (if it did, then I would agree with you) . It is formulated to show what would likely be the source of resources and the spread of the population for various stages of advancement for civilizations. It could very well have been initially designed to categorize our own advancements in technology and then elaborated on that.

The same methodology of thinking exists elsewhere, and it's not considered "pretend" because the concept is based on observations and research, then that information is applied to form a description (and in some cases prediction) of events not yet seen. A good example would be Ray Kurzeil's technological advancement predictions. The predictions are made using very detailed mathematical models and observations using current technology and how quickly it advances to predict when and what future technologies we will have. His track-record and accuracy is amazing, which means it certainly is not 'pretend'.

I suppose critical thinking methods could be viewed as pretend to some individuals, however.

Ohhh
It's science now, seriously

Level 7 are gods, you believe that?

Level 7s are gods and you believe that the scale is science and you are equating your belief in sci fi as reality science,


So effectively gods are science, religion, the unknown, sci fantasy is a science when critical thinkers apply their thought.

You should stop, think, apply a little logic, you are governed by the wind

Critical thinking only if you are the one that gets to decide what is valid critical thinking

whatever..
I think the scale is inherently flawed

type 1: cavemen dabbling in science (which includes 1-5 on our current (and puny) scale of understanding)
type 2: 4th dimension conquered
type 3: dimensions become irrelevant

b

originally posted by: Raggedyman
its still pretend and they had sci fi in the sixties as well.

It's not a "pretend" scale. What a ridiculous notion that a system of measurement could be pretend.

Even if we know for certain there has never been a Type 1 civilization, it's still a real scale. Kardashev simply stated that a civilization which accomplished X is level 1, a civilization which does Y is level 2. The scale says nothing about whether such civilizations or ANY civilizations besides our own even exist, it's simply a measuring stick - quite a simple concept.

originally posted by: dogstar23

originally posted by: Raggedyman
its still pretend and they had sci fi in the sixties as well.

It's not a "pretend" scale. What a ridiculous notion that a system of measurement could be pretend.

Even if we know for certain there has never been a Type 1 civilization, it's still a real scale. Kardashev simply stated that a civilization which accomplished X is level 1, a civilization which does Y is level 2. The scale says nothing about whether such civilizations or ANY civilizations besides our own even exist, it's simply a measuring stick - quite a simple concept.

Yes I can see it's a real scale, I was questioning ghost stating that it is real science

Ghost not accept anything relating to God, yet a scale with gods on it is science

You work that logic out

Professor Michio Kaku speaking of types 1,2,3,4 civilizations, and the conflict with organized religion in Middle Ages. He singled out the case of the burned Giordano Bruno who proposed every star is a world similar to ours.

As Galileo was finally proven right by the Catholic Church, but no earlier than the pontificate of John Paul II, it is a time for Giordano Bruno to be proven right, now when the astronomers registered a thousand plus planets in our galactic neighborhood only, pretty close to what we would call a planet capable to sustain life.

When I have to argue with a fanatic times and again that it is unlikely the vast universe to be empty of life and civilizations, I feel like a little schoolboy who takes the first Sunday lessons in Bible and who is being told imperatively by the religious teacher (or parent): "Adam and Eve ate from the apple because Satan = snake seduced them that God is not good". Well, that might be true in symbolic meaning, but...where are the talks of the goodness of that same God who created countless of stars and life? Where is the talk of Ezekiel 1 where we encounter unparalleled description of alien UFO craft landing on earth, with the available wording of that time extended to maximum to describe all details?

Why should the defenders of good ET battle every time with otherwise good-willed people who nevertheless propose for the evil aliens to cross the enormous vastness of cosmos only to eat us up, or to enjoy our suffering in another way according to their sinister nature?

Disclosure must have happened many times over during or after the landmark year 2000. We don't have what to wait for more. Nukes may be? It is insanity. We desperately need as humanity the HELP of any of those superior civilizations, not to eat any forbidden fruit, but to stop eating the forbidden fruit, called nukes, called oil abuse, called human society abuse. If that is called sin, if those who come to help are called "servants of devil and fallen angels" we'd better go and redefine those categories as well. Hope that politicians (Medvedev laughing of aliens on 12/12/12) and religious (pope proposing to baptize Martians a year ago) will finally respond to the public demand of full transparency, before not after any catastrophic event. Hope the ET read that and are aware that the human race collectively and individually have reached to certain awareness, that today is available to everyone on internet. Much have been said, much have been shown on the screens, including the Sci-Fi, and politicians and religious cannot just say it has not happened. It happened, and the biggest believers in it are exactly our children the new generation of humanity. There is no more excuse. They cannot be sacrificed in the mode of Giordano Bruno, and Disclosure together with the First Public Contact to be delayed with another hundred years. No matter how powerful the negative entities are, there is a thing called Free Will respected by God himself, as well as by all ET civilizations we know about. Even by the negatives. We cannot be kept prisoners on this planet with the only charge of some eaten apple(fruit) 6000 years ago, written about in a single book 2000 years after the event and after the Flood, as the ultimate proof of human collective guilt before God. "In the name of God", in the same name countless free thinkers were burned by those churches. It is just absurd! Enough of that, tell us the truth!

Thank you for reading!

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Ohhh
It's science now, seriously

I never called it 'science', but that doesn't mean it doesn't use observational principles to come to the conclusions of the concept . It's a model of measurement based off of possibilities on how to classify the advancement of civilization.

As I stated before, Ray Kurzweil uses similar methodology to come to his technological predictions. That would be using Math, not exclusively Science.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Level 7 are gods, you believe that?

Do you honestly believe they were literally defining a 'god'?

Ever heard of "Clarke's Three Laws"?

The third law states: Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. To tribal people, cellphones could be consider magic. If you were to go back in time with a vehicle and remotely started it: magic.

I don't see why it isn't possible that a species could progress so far that they could create universes, or exist outside of time and space as we know it. Does that make them a god? No. It makes them highly evolved from something that was previously less advanced.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Level 7s are gods

They would be similar to gods only from our perspective. To anything group that is sufficiently less advanced than another, the more advanced one appears to have god-like powers. When in reality, their technology is simply greater.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
and you believe that the scale is science

No. That was your own interpretation on how I felt about it. The claim is a false premise.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
and you are equating your belief in sci fi as reality science

I already explained to you that technological futurism isn't 'pretend' 'fictional' 'science fiction', but based off of actual observations. I'm sorry you're not able to comprehend such a topic.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
So effectively gods are science, religion, the unknown, sci fantasy is a science when critical thinkers apply their thought.

'Gods', in religion, are magical beings we are generally taught to worship, and usually are the means of our personal existence, as well as where we get our morality.

A far more advanced race could be considered 'god-like', but only in the essence that they have progressed further than us, at a technological scale.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
You should stop, think, apply a little logic, you are governed by the wind

It's odd how others seem to agree with me, while the only people making criticisms are doing so to your invalid comments. Perhaps if you managed to escape the black hole which is your ego, you would be able to comprehend that you are a fallible being like the rest of us, and able to overcome your intrinsically false claims.

It's not my fault you're unable to refute my information with any sort of validity. Once you do, I'd gladly change my position (an action that is apparently impossible for you to achieve).

originally posted by: Raggedyman
Critical thinking only if you are the one that gets to decide what is valid critical thinking

The English Language defines Critical Thinking as:

Critical thinking: the objective analysis and evaluation of an issue in order to form a judgment.

Critical thinking isn't a self evaluated mentality.

You have yet to provide this line of thinking to the topic thus far.