Islamic Immigration is Illegal in the US

I know Mormons that drink liqueur, shocking I know but it is true, I also know a good number of Muslims that do not want to practice Sharia Law, not force anyone else into it, and live a good moderate western life with their religion, Wow more shocking news. What the OP is suggesting is a form of thought police in we will not look at your actions but we will make full judgement of you on our perceived views of what we may think your "true Islam" views are like, and that is some bad juju there if we went down that path.

We can ask them their views and if those views meet Law 414 we do not let them in, if they lie and once in create anything that goes against Law 414 we kick them out. If they wait until they become a citizen and then do it then I guess we can go all Waco on them... But this whole thought police scares the crap out of me.

originally posted by: AshOnMyTomatoes

originally posted by: angeldoll
a reply to: Kapusta

Meanwhile I'll be over here praying i don't get tossed into a detention camp before that.

Ah, sniff. (this is a serious sniff, not a sarcastic one).

I don't think anyone is going after the American Muslims. You hold tight. People are just worried about the influx. Not you. : (

What's the difference exactly?

If you have to ask you're too young to know.

Any immigrant can be denied for ANY reason.

And Yeah Religion is covered under that.

There is absolutely NO guarantee people will get 'admitted' here.

DEAL.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

You are diving to insult pretty early this time. I must have struck a nerve...

Says the guy who is insulting over a billion people.

As for derailing, this thread is about Public Law 414, not your interpretation of the koran. The application of this law in regards to immigration of Islamic people is broader and more faceted than just the one narrow perspective you chose to argue. And that argument did not stand up to any scrutiny at all.

"knows or has reasonable ground to believe probably would"

The problem you have here is that you're interpreting the law through the lens of your own irrational fear and bigotry. Either that or you don't know what the definition of "probably" is?

To respond to something from the OP:

Islam, as guided by the Koran, Sharia Law, and the Hadith, all require complete submission to Islam, which, by its very definition, is antithetical to the United States government, the Constitution and the Republic.

The same could be said about fundamentalist movements within any of the Abrahamic religions. For example, look up "Seven Mountains Dominisim" (7MD). That's a movement involving millions of Americans, including among others (in and out of politics), Ted Cruz whose father is a dominionist preacher.

the7mountains.com - Beyond SALVATION is OCCUPATION

God has a strategy for transforming society; it is through the marketplace/workplace, in each of these mountains. “Those people who occupy the high places have the influence”

What are the "Seven Mountains?"

Economy, Government, Family, Spirituality, Education, Media & Celebration.

Their publicly stated goals include a takeover of the government, education, media and the economy. Even Donald Trump met with prominent leaders to seek their support.

Last month, we noted that Donald Trump had met with dozens of right-wing Christian leaders, many of whom are so far out on the fringe that they are "considered by mainstream evangelicals to be heretics," according to Russell Moore of the Southern Baptist Convention.

Today, we discovered that Lance Wallnau was among those who participated in this meeting and that he came away very impressed, declaring that "Donald Trump is more prophetic than people think. There is a Cyrus anointing on this man. He is like a Reformer in secular garb."

Wallnau is a leading proponent of Seven Mountains Dominionism, the idea that Christians are to "do whatever is necessary" to take control of all aspects of the culture in order to implement the will of God throughout the world. Wallnau is especially concerned with gaining control over the "mountain of government" because he believes that it is currently being controlled by Satan ... and he seems to believe that Trump just might be the man to finally claim it for Christ.

To reiterate — within all of the Abrahamic religions (and likely others), there are fundamentalist movements which would usurp all but their own interpretation of religious law if given the opportunity. However, just as most Jews and Christians are able to exist in the Western world, under the rule of secular law, so too can most of their Muslims cousins. If you really want to make this a better, safer country, go make some Muslims friends.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: rexsblues
a reply to: introvert

Well it's like this, most radical Islams wouldn't dare back down from pronouncing their faith, being they're constantly under threat of death for doing such things. So asking the simple question of which religion an incoming immigrant subscribes to would in fact help and if they so happen to proclaim Islam, this law would righteously become enforced and their entry would be denied.

great thread OP.

So you are implying that all Muslims are extremist.

...based on the quran? yes, exactly. Either that or it's time for non radical Muslims to seriously consider atheism.

Or are you implying non radical Muslims don't follow the doctrine of their own religion?

When it comes to the point that you're having to cherry pick and creatively reinterpret the teachings of your ancient old world religion because it's too perverse and barbaric to be practiced literally in the modern world, it's probably time to start thinking outside the book.

What the hell, do people really believe Islam is all about destroying other countries? Guys I have a serious question. Why on earth would 1.7 billion people follow a religion that dis-obeys a nations laws. Be real everyone, stop focusing on just the religion and focus on the people's actions.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

How do you wipe-out right-wing mental deluded Christians on face of the earth?

They're the problem!

Here's an idea: make Muslim immigrants swear an oath on the Q'uran that they will be loyal to the United States and renounce all foreign fatwas? Why would that not be good enough? If they take their religion seriously enough to become a jihadist they would not foreswear on the Q'uran, would they? And if they refuse to take the vow, they don't get in

a reply to: NeoMuslim

Sorry, I mean I get it man, it's no different than what Christianity went through 600 years ago, ...but that was 600 years ago, it's 2015.

You can't have 10's of thousands of actively violent radial members of a religion putting the entire world on tilt through murder, genocide and terrorism on behalf of that religion and not have some serious backlash from the 5.7 Billion people who don't give damn what it is these people believe.

I've said it before on here, the common cry of folks not 'understanding islam' is a forceful play on peoples empathy and is the very tact used, abused and taken advantage of by radicals.

In short, it is becoming logically and rationally implausible for a sane individual free from this religion to concede any amount of trust.

originally posted by: NeoMuslim
What the hell, do people really believe Islam is all about destroying other countries? Guys I have a serious question. Why on earth would 1.7 billion people follow a religion that dis-obeys a nations laws. Be real everyone, stop focusing on just the religion and focus on the people's actions.

It because they're afraid. They're afraid because Christianity is on decline. Islam is growing rapidly. They're Jealous. That is all.

originally posted by: mekhanics

originally posted by: NeoMuslim
What the hell, do people really believe Islam is all about destroying other countries? Guys I have a serious question. Why on earth would 1.7 billion people follow a religion that dis-obeys a nations laws. Be real everyone, stop focusing on just the religion and focus on the people's actions.

It because they're afraid. They're afraid because Christianity is on decline. Islam is growing rapidly. They're Jealous. That is all.

...one in the making right here folks^.

Why, when it comes to religion, does one condemn Islam or Christianity when the only thing different about them is the words used? The Holy Bible also calls on followers to kill nonbelievers.

Deuteronomy 17
"If there be found among you, within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee, man or woman, that hath wrought wickedness in the sight of the LORD thy God, in transgressing his covenant; 17:3 And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 17:4 And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel; 17:5 Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die."

Can religion just jump off of a cliff now so that the rest of us can have peace?

a reply to: rexsblues

...based on the quran? yes, exactly. Either that or it's time for non radical Muslims to seriously consider atheism.

Or are you implying non radical Muslims don't follow the doctrine of their own religion?

When it comes to the point that you're having to cherry pick and creatively reinterpret the teachings of your ancient old world religion because it's too perverse and barbaric to be practiced literally in the modern world, it's probably time to start thinking outside the book.

So based on the bible, you must have a similar view of all fundamentalist Christians (and orthodox Jews, since all of the prescriptions for stoning are from books that come from the Torah)?

No one may lay a hand on him: he must be stoned or shot by arrow; whether man or beast, he shall not live." When the ram's horn sounds a long blast, they must go up the mountain.' --Exodus 19:13 (touching Mt Sinai)

and anyone who blasphemes the name of Yahweh will be put to death; the whole community will stone him; be he alien or native-born, if he blasphemes the Name, he will be put to death. --Leviticus 24:16

'But if the accusation that the girl cannot show evidence of virginity is substantiated, she must be taken out, and at the door of her father's house her fellow-citizens must stone her to death for having committed an infamy in Israel by bringing disgrace on her father's family. You must banish this evil from among you.

'If a man is caught having sexual intercourse with another man's wife, both must be put to death: the man who has slept with her and the woman herself. You must banish this evil from Israel.

'If a virgin is engaged to a man, and another man encounters her in the town and has sexual intercourse with her, you will take them both to the gate of the town in question and stone them to death: the girl, for not having called for help in the town; the man, for having exploited his fellow-citizen's wife. You must banish this evil from among you.

--Deuteronomy 22:20-24

Other stoning-worthy transgressions:

- Breaking the Sabbath (Numbers 15:32-56)
- Children who disobey their parents (Deuteronomy 21:18-21)
- Worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 13:5-10)
- A woman not being a virgin on her wedding night (Deuteronomy 22:13-21)

Now John 7:53-8:11 (the pericope adulterae, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" etc) could be taken as evidence that Jesus was against stoning but its provenance is questionable as it wasn't part of the original Greek manuscripts.

Perhaps you think there's no support for this in modern American Christianity? You might have missed my thread about Kevin Swanson so I'll point out the following:

'Kill the Gays' Preacher Kevin Swanson: God's on His Side (Nov 24, 2015)

Pastor Kevin Swanson is taking a victory lap after his headline-making National Religious Liberties Conference in Iowa earlier this month. After hosting Republican presidential candidates Ted Cruz, Mike Huckabee, and Bobby Jindal (who since left the race), the Colorado preacher who calls for gays who don’t repent to be sentenced to death went on radio to reflect on the “media firestorm” he created.

At his religious freedom conference, attended by some 1,700 people, Swanson announced that he believes that churches should have sackcloth and ashes at their entrances for Christian families whose “sons are rebelling, hanging out with homosexuals, and getting married, and their parents are invited. And I would sit in cow manure, and I would spread it all over my body.”

Here's some recent examples of the same fundamentalist extremism:

Oklahoma GOP candidate suggests it's OK to stone gay people to death (June 11, 2014)

As the The Moore Daily discovered, Esk last summer responded to another person's Facebook post about the Pope with scripture passages seemingly condoning the harsh punishment of gays. When someone asked him if he meant "we should execute homosexuals (presumably by stoning)," Esk responded in the affirmative.

"I think we would be totally in the right to do it," he wrote. "That goes against some parts of libertarianism, I realize, and I'm largely libertarian, but ignoring as a nation things that are worthy of death is very remiss."

Arizona pastor publicly supports death by stoning for homosexuals (April 15, 2015)

A Christian pastor in Arizona is publicly calling for gays to be stoned to death, and is angry that other pastors are not following God’s command “to kill the gays.”

In a recent sermon Pastor David Berzins of Word of Truth Baptist Church condemned all those who would refuse to endorse God’s call to kill the gays. In particular, Berzins was angry with a fellow pastor who had refused to endorse far-right pastor Steven Anderson’s call for death to LGBT people.

Anti-Gay Tennessee Pastor Would Like To Remind You Stoning Gays Was A-OK Under The Old Testament (August 17, 2015)

Bailey said that "if that's what you're looking for, you can surely find a multiplicity of that today. But is that what God's looking for?" he posited.

God "has a definite standard and it is not the liberal mindset that we see today," Bailey continued.

"God does not approve of homosexuality or gay marriage," Bailey promised. "The scripture says… that is vile, unnatural and deserving of a penalty… It’s an abomination that under the Old Testament deserved stoning."

"And so, is our God, the God of Bible, wanting us to go somewhere where it's liberal, relaxed views and anything goes? No, that’s the effect of a very liberal society. And we need to make sure that such is not the idea or the mindset of God."

a reply to: theantediluvian

They will conveniently ignore everything you've just said. These topics aren't about discussion they're about confirming the preconceived biases of small minded morons.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Can we please get rid of the Christians too? The bible is also full of contradictions. Not trying to derail, just sayin.

a reply to: theantediluvian

yes, I do. exactly. WTF? if I'm speaking out against islam, that automatically makes me Christian?

The random, lone Christian lunatic that pops up every now and again and goes postal is in no way comparable, for the simple fact that that there's not... 30'000 people who've overthrown an entire country shooting their AK's in the air rooting him on for doin a good job.

The fact is, there's no other organized radical religious movement of 10's of thousands of heavily armed fanatics carried out in the name of that religion committing mass murder, genocide and terrorism to the point that it's the #1 geopolitical issue.

Anybody trying to compare Christanity or 'right-wing terrorism' or delusional enough to even come up with that phrase and try compare it to what is happening around the world on behalf of radical islam is denying reality, plain and simple... and probably needs a lobotomy.

...again, try thinking outside the books.

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: peter vlar

Just because you wish it to be doesn't make it true. The US constotution applies to US citizens. All rights are granted through immigration laws meaning they can be changed. So do you fall under the french constitution if your not french? Don't be silly immigrants have no rights granted under the constitution but if you care to prove me wrong where in the constitution does it mention immigrants??

But what about this?

Obama Amnesty creates loophole for Illegal immigrants to Vote in Elections.

www.washingtontimes.com...

a reply to: mekhanics

Not religious or anything but why oh why would any woman be more welcoming of yet another Religion to control her and force things upon her like wearing a blanket over her head 24/7 or feel made to, which btw christianity doesn't do. Islam is not the lesser of the two evils by any shot, Why is it being pushed so hard in our society to accept it, this is what i'd really love to know? anyone anyone? Bueller?

And upon thinking about it, what do you think people who come from a strict islamic background are going to do when they do get the the us of a they'll most likely be shocked to see nudists, porn palaces on every block women wearing skirts and bikini's omg. Culture shock 101 and no one thought about that? It will cause them to cling harder than ever to what their pretend god told them to do aeons ago. The rest i'll leave ... Just using the 1st amend right to state the obvious. I know a few muslims they aren't the problem, it's the ones who are born and bred to hate the Western way of life, that's going to be a problem in the next little while.