Islamic Immigration is Illegal in the US

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

Oh no sir. That did not begin the attacks. That already happened, to me.

Not from me, I simply pointed out the glaring errors in your logic.

I did not ignore the bulk of the legislation. There is part of the legislation that applies directly to the topic of this thread. The entire piece of legislation is huge and not going to be discussed here. You are free to discuss it at your leisure somewhere else. Please stop trying to derail this thread or change the topic.

Im not derailing anything. You simply want to ignore proper context because it doesn't serve your supposition. In fact, I gave a great deal of information pertaining exclusively to you supposition and you ignored it in favor of derailing your own thread then blaming a derailing on me before moving on to an ad hominem.

There is no legal precedent to support your borrowed position regarding 414 and in fact, legal precedent gives us the exact opposite. the 14th amendment guarantees equal protection under the law which means the 1st amendment can't be dissected or misappropriated to disenfranchise any particular group based on religious background. There has to be some sort of evidence the individual is or has been a party to activities that are detrimental to American. You can't meet that standard based solely on religion proclivity.

Yes part of the OP is original material. You accuse me too quickly. My claim is not false, the law is quite clear.

Sure, part of it is but the rest is not then, correct? there are no citations. That violates T&C

Your claim is nothing more than a shared minority opinion of scared people. It doesn't have any basis in reality though. If it did, you would have shown a legal precedent or other appropriate citation supporting that position as opposed to crafting an opinion piece from partially plagiarized material. Its an opinion piece and is devoid of merit.

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

Don't bother dude they have moved from gay folk to transgender and now Muslims to hate on.

originally posted by: dragonridr
US constitution only applies to us citizens it does not apply to immigrants they have no protection under the constitution.If they did immigration laws would be unnecessary and handled by US courts.

Ultimately the oresident of the united states has the ability to block any class from entering the united states.Thus option has been used before it can be based on anything religion affiliation country origin doesn't mattrt.However this option wont be used especially since the president is pushing for immagratio. So arguing the legality of it is silly if another president takes office and decided to use thus option then it would be valid to discuss.Bottom line immagtation under current laws is decided by the president and as such its his responsibility.

The president is supposed to follow the laws, even the ones he disagrees with. He can suggest changes to congress and some presidents use executive order to some degree. But this law is current and in effect. It should be adhered to the same as any other laws. The number of ways this law can limit or prevent immigration is astounding, but I only referred to one section for ease of discussion.

Anyone who would seek to undermine US law, the safety of the people, ignore the Constitution, or endanger the Republic can be prevented from immigrating to the US. That is pretty much common sense. This law provides the means by which any person can be denied entry regardless of their reason for seeking it. It states, for example, that people who can be reasonably believed to become a burden to the state financially can be denied entry. People who have no work skills and/or can not learn them can be denied entry. People who have certain communicable diseases can be denied entry. The list of disqualifying characteristics is enormous. But it is specifically the threat to the laws of the land, the Constitution, and the Republic that I focused this thread.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Why are you so afraid?.

originally posted by: dragonridr
US constitution only applies to us citizens it does not apply to immigrants they have no protection under the constitution.If they did immigration laws would be unnecessary and handled by US courts.

completely false. Legal immigrants receive full constitutional protections, foreign visitors and nationals are protected by the constitution as well. The only limits imposed by SCOTUS are on illegal immigrants. they don't have 2nd amendment rights for example. Your contention regarding immigration law being unecesary were this true is false. Immigration laws are a matter of administrative law, not criminal law. very different things.

www.slate.com...

Ultimately the oresident of the united states has the ability to block any class from entering the united states.Thus option has been used before it can be based on anything religion affiliation country origin doesn't mattrt

care to provide a citation for that? because it isn't so.

However this option wont be used especially since the president is pushing for immagratio. So arguing the legality of it is silly if another president takes office and decided to use thus option then it would be valid to discuss.Bottom line immagtation under current laws is decided by the president and as such its his responsibility.

The president has the power to give Administrative Relief regarding immigrants facing deportation. The POTUS however can not violate the constitution and bar an entire religion from gaining entry to the U.S.

www.nilc.org...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: peter vlar
If the extremists are such a small percentage it would seem like the vastly larger group of moderates could stop the extremists any time they wanted to. But they don't. I wonder why that is...

Why don't the the majority of responsible American gun owners ever stop these mass shooters from creating havoc?

Obviously, the bad apple spoils the bunch... right back at ya mate.

We try to, every time we have cause to. And sometimes we are successful.

That does nothing to advance the topic of this thread, however.

Well, I personally think it does a great deal to "advance the topic of this thread".

300 million guns in the US, yet the "responsible" gun owners are powerless to prevent psychopaths from flipping out and cutting down innocent people in there prime, for no good reason.

Why are you not holding yourself to the same standard that you expect of people who practice the Islamic religion?

If it was religion as a whole you had the problem with, then I would fully agree... But your just hypocritically pointing your finger at Islam.

What about all the Catholics that preach against using protection during sex, claiming its a sin in over populated disease ridden African countries?

Or hardcore Zionists who claim to be genetically superior and more entitled than all other races?

Its all relative and technically goes against the act mentioned in the OP... So you can either make the claim that people of 'all' MS religions should be banned from entering the US. Or just admit your whole argument is based on a false premise.

a reply to: peter vlar

Not from me, I simply pointed out the glaring errors in your logic.

You called me a hysterical xenophobe. Does that not qualify?

There is no legal precedent to support your borrowed position regarding 414 and in fact, legal precedent gives us the exact opposite. the 14th amendment guarantees equal protection under the law which means the 1st amendment can't be dissected or misappropriated to disenfranchise any particular group based on religious background.

No, it does not. The 14th amendment was passed in 1868. PL 414 was passed in 1952, and clearly defined the intent of congress. If your statement is true, then congress must be wrong. Given the two choices of interpretation, I go with congress.

Sure, part of it is but the rest is not then, correct? there are no citations. That violates T&C

First you said none of it was original. Now you say some of it is original. Were you lying then or are you lying now?

I wrote two paragraphs, quoted the section of the law that was applicable, then wrote three more paragraphs, then included the link to the source. That is twice now you have publicly accused me of T&C violations.

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originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Why are you so afraid?.

What makes you think I am afraid? Try breaking in to my house and see how scared I am.

Better yet, why don't you ask the thousands of people who died on 9/11 why they are afraid. Or the people who died in France. Or the people who died in SB. Oh wait, you cant ask them can you...

There is a difference between fear and caution. I can be cautious while doing fearless things. Soldiers do it every day. Including the ones killed by terrorists.

Sure seems like he's on the side of Warlike islam.



Are people panicking for nothing? maybe, but i doubt it entirely. People have something called 'instincts' and they seem to be kicking in high gear right now so those who laugh and mock about Islam invading are no different than those who tremble in fear, just in the opposite direction. There is a shift happening.

There is Nothing New under the Sun on this planet that hasn't happened before. Look at history, look at the people running the World for crikey sake, If you still trust them with your Future then enjoy it while it lasts now because its not your future they're attempting to build, but their own. This is what people are worried about on a deep subconcious level, in mho.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: peter vlar
If the extremists are such a small percentage it would seem like the vastly larger group of moderates could stop the extremists any time they wanted to. But they don't. I wonder why that is...

Why don't the the majority of responsible American gun owners ever stop these mass shooters from creating havoc?

Obviously, the bad apple spoils the bunch... right back at ya mate.

We try to, every time we have cause to. And sometimes we are successful.

That does nothing to advance the topic of this thread, however.

Well, I personally think it does a great deal to "advance the topic of this thread".

300 million guns in the US, yet the "responsible" gun owners are powerless to prevent psychopaths from flipping out and cutting down innocent people in there prime, for no good reason.

Why are you not holding yourself to the same standard that you expect of people who practice the Islamic religion?

If it was religion as a whole you had the problem with, then I would fully agree... But your just hypocritically pointing your finger at Islam.

What about all the Catholics that preach against using protection during sex, claiming its a sin in over populated disease ridden African countries?

Or hardcore Zionists who claim to be genetically superior and more entitled than all other races?

Its all relative and technically goes against the act mentioned in the OP... So you can either make the claim that people of 'all' MS religions should be banned from entering the US. Or just admit your whole argument is based on a false premise.

You have a singularly warped perspective. Congress passed this law. It is not some pipe dream. It is real.

If you insist on comparing the mental defectives who kill people in this country to muslims, fine. We can consider all muslims mental defectives. If that is what you want, so be it. I would never say that, but you keep bringing it up.

The thread is about immigration. It has nothing to do with the people already here that you keep trying to bring in to the discussion. If you want to talk about nut cases shooting people in this country, please find the appropriate thread.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Back in the day we in the UK had years of terrorism from the IRA.
Did we ban ginger irish people from coming to the UK? nope.
Did we fear all irish ginger people..nope.
Did we look at ginger irish people thinking they could be a terrorist no.
So why do you do the same with Muslims?.
The percentage of fundie muslims who will hurt you is tiny the chances of a muslim terrorist hurting you is tiny.
You are much more likely to be attacked in the USA from a lone fundie christian so do you want to ban christians coming in also?.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: peter vlar
If the extremists are such a small percentage it would seem like the vastly larger group of moderates could stop the extremists any time they wanted to. But they don't. I wonder why that is...

Why don't the the majority of responsible American gun owners ever stop these mass shooters from creating havoc?

Obviously, the bad apple spoils the bunch... right back at ya mate.

We try to, every time we have cause to. And sometimes we are successful.

That does nothing to advance the topic of this thread, however.

Well, I personally think it does a great deal to "advance the topic of this thread".

300 million guns in the US, yet the "responsible" gun owners are powerless to prevent psychopaths from flipping out and cutting down innocent people in there prime, for no good reason.

Why are you not holding yourself to the same standard that you expect of people who practice the Islamic religion?

If it was religion as a whole you had the problem with, then I would fully agree... But your just hypocritically pointing your finger at Islam.

What about all the Catholics that preach against using protection during sex, claiming its a sin in over populated disease ridden African countries?

Or hardcore Zionists who claim to be genetically superior and more entitled than all other races?

Its all relative and technically goes against the act mentioned in the OP... So you can either make the claim that people of 'all' MS religions should be banned from entering the US. Or just admit your whole argument is based on a false premise.

The thread is about immigration. It has nothing to do with the people already here that you keep trying to bring in to the discussion. If you want to talk about nut cases shooting people in this country, please find the appropriate thread.

You were the one who asked the question of why peaceful moderate Muslims can't/don't stop the tiny minority of fanatics who carry out acts of terrorism... I'm merely asking the same question, why don't you hold yourself to the same standard?

Unless you can answer that very simple question, anything else you say is just hot air and a waste of my time.

Interesting thread. What i get out of this, is that the Obama administration is guilty of breaking federal law, by allowing Hostile refugees to enter the US.

And continues

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Vroomfondel

Back in the day we in the UK had years of terrorism from the IRA.
Did we ban ginger irish people from coming to the UK? nope.
Did we fear all irish ginger people..nope.
Did we look at ginger irish people thinking they could be a terrorist no.
So why do you do the same with Muslims?.
The percentage of fundie muslims who will hurt you is tiny the chances of a muslim terrorist hurting you is tiny.
You are much more likely to be attacked in the USA from a lone fundie christian so do you want to ban christians coming in also?.

There are aspects of this that you are not addressing. On the surface you can make statements as you did here. But there is more to it than that. There are numerous videos showing islamic people stating very clearly that the method is to invade and increase in numbers until they can overpower and consume any who oppose them. History has also shown this to be true.

There is a thing called 'group think' in which individuals tend to forgo normal behavior in favor of more assertive, aggressive, and usually illegal and violent behavior when in the middle of a group. There is a perceived anonymity and the belief that the group is who committed the crime, not the individual. As such, it is the group who will get in trouble, not the individual. One muslim among a thousand non-muslims is timid. A thousand muslims are brave. They become the hand of allah.

We have seen the death and destruction just a few motivated terrorists can do. Imagine how emboldened they will be with ever increasing numbers.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: peter vlar
If the extremists are such a small percentage it would seem like the vastly larger group of moderates could stop the extremists any time they wanted to. But they don't. I wonder why that is...

Why don't the the majority of responsible American gun owners ever stop these mass shooters from creating havoc?

Obviously, the bad apple spoils the bunch... right back at ya mate.

We try to, every time we have cause to. And sometimes we are successful.

That does nothing to advance the topic of this thread, however.

Well, I personally think it does a great deal to "advance the topic of this thread".

300 million guns in the US, yet the "responsible" gun owners are powerless to prevent psychopaths from flipping out and cutting down innocent people in there prime, for no good reason.

Why are you not holding yourself to the same standard that you expect of people who practice the Islamic religion?

If it was religion as a whole you had the problem with, then I would fully agree... But your just hypocritically pointing your finger at Islam.

What about all the Catholics that preach against using protection during sex, claiming its a sin in over populated disease ridden African countries?

Or hardcore Zionists who claim to be genetically superior and more entitled than all other races?

Its all relative and technically goes against the act mentioned in the OP... So you can either make the claim that people of 'all' MS religions should be banned from entering the US. Or just admit your whole argument is based on a false premise.

The thread is about immigration. It has nothing to do with the people already here that you keep trying to bring in to the discussion. If you want to talk about nut cases shooting people in this country, please find the appropriate thread.

You were the one who asked the question of why peaceful moderate Muslims can't/don't stop the tiny minority of fanatics who carry out acts of terrorism... I'm merely asking the same question, why don't you hold yourself to the same standard?

Unless you can answer that very simple question, anything else you say is just hot air and a waste of my time.

Oh my freakin God....because the muslims are the subject of the immigration, not the people who already live here. Please, feel free to move on now. Bye. C ya. Go. Now.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

On the surface you can make statements as you did here. But there is more to it than that. There are numerous videos showing islamic people stating very clearly that the method is to invade and increase in numbers until they can overpower and consume any who oppose them.

Yeah, but the kids of the Muslims who immigrate to the western world, end up being far to concerned about the just released nike airs or newest iphone, to have the slightest interest in giving there lives for some 3rd world primitive cause.

Your fears are totally unfounded by reality... you still recognize reality, right?

I know its hard to comprehend when your overcome with irrational panic.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
a reply to: Vroomfondel

On the surface you can make statements as you did here. But there is more to it than that. There are numerous videos showing islamic people stating very clearly that the method is to invade and increase in numbers until they can overpower and consume any who oppose them.

Yeah, but the kids of the Muslims who immigrate to the western world, end up being far to concerned about the just released nike airs or newest iphone, to have the slightest interest in giving there lives for some 3rd world primitive cause.

Your fears are totally unfounded by reality... you still recognize reality, right?

I know its hard to comprehend when your overcome with irrational panic.

Site your references for those statements or retract them. They are off-topic, anecdotal, and biased tripe. Does that fit in to your reality?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

Well in that case, the Muslims I know are not true followers of Islam because they have no interest in being covert operatives or taking over the U.S. One of them cleans house for my grandmother. How many Muslims do you know? Or do you keep your distance because you think they are all out to get you?

a reply to: Vroomfondel

You are using a persuasion-technique (which name I just now do not have ready, sry), as you are speaking of radical muslims in your first paragraph, and in the next paragraph you are mentioning some idea about spreading guilt over a group of people - while not mentioning or even indicating that you meant muslims. Which you did in context only.

That is misleading, intentionally.

That is a bad way of trying to make a point, friend.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

What, does anecdotal evidence do not prove anything anymore on this board?

Well, I thought that this kind of evidence was teh mostest powerfullest of them all.. I may be in mistake there..


And yes, to my knowledge they care more about capitalism and its idols than about the countries they came from. Source: Every single immigrant ever!


Because immigrants are people, too. Not invaders. This is fear-driven thinking. Clear yourself of it and you will find more understanding for humanity and a higher morale.