Harry Reid, John Lewis assail 'racist' Scalia comments

I know this can be a touchy subject, but is it only me that thinks when anything is said about the black community the democrats instantly throw the "racist" word? I don't hear the black community say it as much as people like Harry Reid does.

The back ground is Justice Scalia commented on an affirmative action case saying that affirmative action has not been in the best interest for blacks since it puts people into colleges that would not normal qualify for with knowledge and skill. I personally think about 60% of all people who go to college most likely do not get much out of it with going after easy degrees not worth anything or just dropping out. They would have done much better in a trade school to learn skills that would make them much more successful in life then all the wasted time in college. The touchy part is he said

as opposed to having them go to a less-advanced school, a less -- a slower-track school where they do well,

I can also tell you I was not ready for college until late into my 20s and there are a vast number of universities I would fail at with the typical degrees they offer. MIT was never in my vision...hehe

edit for source:

Racist

a reply to: Xtrozero

Source?

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Xtrozero

Source?

Sorry I thought I had put it in

a reply to: Xtrozero
I don;t think Scalia meant how it came out. I have read analysis on this. But for such a smart person, where every single word he says is scutinized with a microscope, he could have worded it better.

It is a mismatching/competition thing, not a race thing.

My only issue with this, is that Scalia seems to imply that Black kids aren't as smart as white kids.

Maybe it's just me reading something into it, but it just didn't come across so well...

a reply to: reldra

Precisely, he is referring to students who come out of substandard school districts I think, and while they may be high performing in those districts, those districts do not prepare their students as well for the challenges of even a regular state university. So when those kids get into that situation, they are suddenly toward the bottom of their peer groups and dealing with deficits in their education that they were unaware of previously.

Universities may not have the programs on hand to adequately deal with or identify those students and a lot of them end up getting frustrated and quitting.

Whereas if they went to a less prestigious school, they could get a lot of those inadequacies addressed because that's part of what those universities do as part of their programs.

It isn't the students' fault they came from a crappy district, but without the catchup, they're at risk where they don't necessarily need to be in a lot of cases.

originally posted by: reldra
a reply to: Xtrozero
I don;t think Scalia meant how it came out. I have read analysis on this. But for such a smart person, he could have worded it better.

I agree but it is also easy to understand his intent in what he was talking about affirmative action. There has been over the years a good number of successful black people that have said it is wrong also for basically the same reasons Justice Scalia was talking about. It is not about intelligence, it is about ability, so take anyone from any high school who got mainly poor to average grades, poor SAT test scores etc and then just put them in a college that has very hard degree programs and see how well they do. Do we really need old Harry to scream Racist over it all?

originally posted by: amazing
My only issue with this, is that Scalia seems to imply that Black kids aren't as smart as white kids.

Maybe it's just me reading something into it, but it just didn't come across so well...

Having taught in an inner city district, it's just you. Take the time to go into one and you'll see. The kids aren't any less smart, but they are fed a BS program that doesn't prepare them.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Scalia is just talking out his ass.....again!

Personally, I think what he said is totally unacceptable, especially coming from a Supreme Court Justice.

But then, I think that about most everything that asshole says.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: amazing
My only issue with this, is that Scalia seems to imply that Black kids aren't as smart as white kids.

Maybe it's just me reading something into it, but it just didn't come across so well...

Having taught in an inner city district, it's just you. Take the time to go into one and you'll see. The kids aren't any less smart, but they are fed a BS program that doesn't prepare them.

I understand, I've taught low income kids for years and I can see it sometimes, but you get the same "Un-intellectualism" from white country kids too, that I've taught and helped teach. It's a culture that effects every subset of our population to some degree. However, he didn't really seem to address that, he said they couldn't handle the tougher colleges and harder work loads. When he should have been talking about how to address education in general, or maybe he's out of touch and doesn't understand what's going on.

originally posted by: amazing

Maybe it's just me reading something into it, but it just didn't come across so well...

I guess we can ask the question, can you qualify to go to MIT, if yes then great, but if no how would you do if you were still put into one of their advance engineering programs?

So is he saying blacks are not smart enough, or are people saying that less-advanced/slower-track schools are crap?

originally posted by: Flatfish
a reply to: Xtrozero

Scalia is just talking out his ass.....again!

Personally, I think what he said is totally unacceptable, especially coming from a Supreme Court Justice.

But then, I think that about most everything that asshole says.

I do think he could have said it differently, but it doesn't make him wrong, and old Harry "oh the horror" is about as bad...

originally posted by: ketsuko

Precisely, he is referring to students who come out of substandard school districts I think, and while they may be high performing in those districts, those districts do not prepare their students as well for the challenges of even a regular state university. So when those kids get into that situation, they are suddenly toward the bottom of their peer groups and dealing with deficits in their education that they were unaware of previously.

Universities may not have the programs on hand to adequately deal with or identify those students and a lot of them end up getting frustrated and quitting.

The only reason why blacks are even mention is because only blacks can use affirmative action. If it was open to anyone that could not qualify for a college we would see the same results.

a reply to: Xtrozero


White women are the largest beneficiary of affirmative action.

I'm glad someone brought up this topic. While I tend to be more conservative on this issue, I do support affirmative action to some degree. Being black and educated at both a HBCU as well as a Top 3 grad school, I've seen both sides of the issue and most certainly a beneficiary of it.

I'll comment on it when I have more time.

Just old farts looking to act COOL!! I bet they even snap their fingers now instead of clapping. LAME people tick me off.

originally posted by: Edumakated
I'm glad someone brought up this topic. While I tend to be more conservative on this issue, I do support to some degree. Being black and educated at both a HBCU as well as a Top 3 grad school, I've seen both sides of the issue and most certainly a beneficiary of it.

I'll comment on it when I have more time.

I was in no way ready for college until later in life as my grades and SAT/ACT scores also showed and so something a long this lines would have most likely have changed my outcome in a negative way as it is today. So I have a question, did you not have the grades/ACT/SAT scores/skill set etc to get accepted into college but got there on affirmative action, or did you just get accepted as a norm course of action.

Thomas Sowell I'm pretty sure made this argument before. I think he actually showed if a black can get an advanced degree he/she will make more than the white counterpart bc "diversity hire"

It is a public school and inner city culture issue. This prevents blacks from getting the similar level of education and thus the gpa, test scores, and college prep are lower than that of a typical white person.

a reply to: Xtrozero

I agree that Affirmative Action is racist. It separates people by skin color and then gives them preferential admissions status.

How is that not racist?

Scalia's comments aren't racist and I think he is correct to a degree, but I believe he lacks the nuance necessary to understand the issue.

What really irks me though about this issue is that some white folks act like these campuses are just crawling with tons of black people. It simply isn't the case. Even if affirmative action, blacks make up a very small portion of the student body. When I was in grad school, we had a class of almost 700 students. There were like 15 blacks in the class.

A couple of things to consider.

First, affirmative action as it pertains to higher education is really only an issue at the very best schools in the country. Maybe the top 50 schools... maybe even only the top 25. The reason is such a contentious issue is that admission to many of these schools virtually guarantees an upper middle class or upper class life if you graduate. Anyone who has graduated from these top tier schools will tell you that for most people, the hardest part was just getting accepted. Unless you are a stone cold idiot, it is almost impossible to not graduate.

Graduating from certain schools - especially law and business is a meal ticket to certain employers. For example, if you want to work at Goldman Sachs or at WLRK law, you almost have to go to certain schools. These firms that pay six figures to 20 something year old graduates don't really recruit outside of the top 10 or so schools.

The reality is that these schools have way more qualified applicants than they could possibly accept. If the schools wanted to, they could literally admit an incoming class with perfect LSAT, GMAT, or whatever scores they deem necessary.

However, that is not what they are trying to do. They want to basically create a class that is diverse with differing view points, experiences, etc. As such, admission does not boil down to just your GPA and test score. It is way more complicated. As a result, the student is essentially trying to sell themselves to the school admissions committee. For example, a co-worker of mine graduated from Harvard Business School. We joked the only reason he got in was because he was from Iowa. Not many Iowans head off to Harvard. The admissions committee was trying to increase the students who come from the midwest instead of the typical white bread east cost/new england applicant they normally get.

The argument I often hear is that more qualified applicants were turned down. The problem with this argument is that it assumes the only qualifications are GPA and test scores. That simply is not the case.

I've always thought of affirmative action as a prime example of how two wrongs don't make a right.