Billboard asking people to skip church on Christmas stirs controversy

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

chistian redemption is all about absolving sin. dissolving your responsibilities and transferring them to a human, therefore clearing your name as a murderer and granting you salvation.

you have to get rid of your sins in order to be worthy. something that shouldn't be granted.

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
Good discussion.

But anyway how this got started is one poster's view that whatever you do can never be good enough and to accept God's forgiveness (for something you never did) and in essence avoiding punishment is negative.

Mostly right. But it was never about asking for forgiveness for things you never did.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

chistian redemption is all about absolving sin. dissolving your responsibilities and transferring them to a human, therefore clearing your name as a murderer and granting you salvation.

False.

First of all, I never discussed salvation. As I have shown, my post was about the idea a person can be redeemed.

Second, your name a a murderer is never cleared.

Is that really what the billboard said
or what you want it to say




a reply to: Phage

a reply to: Raggedyman

Actually you said Christians who celebrated Christmas were sinners

No I said that some Christians said that.

Clear?

a reply to: Raggedyman

Is that really what the billboard said

Did you read the article?

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

well i mean if murderers can go to heaven because they said sorry, id imagine heaven is full of criminals. if you want to believe that someone can be rewarded after being a hitler clone, that's your choice.

makes no sense to me

originally posted by: Deaf Alien
a reply to: Raggedyman

Actually you said Christians who celebrated Christmas were sinners

No I said that some Christians said that.

Clear?

I actually agree. You said certain Christians say it. I did not see you specifically endorse it yourself.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

well i mean if murderers can go to heaven because they said sorry, id imagine heaven is full of criminals. if you want to believe that someone can be rewarded after being a hitler clone, that's your choice.

Already explained. Not how it works. Saying sorry gets you nothing according to Christianity.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04


well i mean if murderers can go to heaven because they atone, id imagine heaven is full of criminals. if you want to believe that someone can be rewarded after being a hitler clone, that's your choice.

fixed it

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04


well i mean if murderers can go to heaven because they atone, id imagine heaven is full of criminals. if you want to believe that someone can be rewarded after being a hitler clone, that's your choice.

fixed it

Atonement won't do it either.

Funny how you shift from it's wrong for God to send a person to Hell, to it's wrong for God to let someone into Heaven.

Repentance. That's the word you were looking for.

repent1
[ri-pent]

verb (used without object)

to feel such sorrow for sin or fault as to be disposed to change one's life for the better

Not sure Hitler fits that criteria.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

not just any person, specifically someone that does not believe.

it doesn't matter what verb you use, i dont think an evil person that repents should be rewarded at all. i dont even believe there is a reward.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

not just any person, specifically someone that does not believe.

it doesn't matter what verb you use, i dont think an evil person that repents should be rewarded at all. i dont even believe there is a reward.

So wrong for someone who does not believe to go to Hell, and wrong for someone who does believe to go to Heaven. Very interesting.

You can believe or not believe all you like, all I desire is you use the correct terminology.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i dont think its wrong for an innocent person to go to heaven, my problem is the process in which someone guilty becomes innocent. i dont think that process is actually possible. that's why i dont respect repentance.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

i dont think its wrong for an innocent person to go to heaven, my problem is the process in which someone guilty becomes innocent. i dont think that process is actually possible. that's why i dont respect repentance.

No such thing as innocent. We are free to disagree. No intention of converting you as you can't convert someone who is not open to it.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

yep i think we have to agree to disagree at this point. i can't forgive someone that let's say, rapes my sister. if your god can, well that's just what you believe.

I don't think that's the way they see it. It does not matter what you do on Earth (flesh things).

It's a spiritual warfare. It's not what you did as human.

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

yep i think we have to agree to disagree at this point. i can't forgive someone that let's say, rapes my sister. if your god can, well that's just what you believe.

Forget God and look into research on forgiveness. Not forgiving them doesn't hurt them, it does hurt you.

www.huffingtonpost.com...

If someone did that to someone I love I would do my best to forgive them, and love them. This world has no place for people like that though, they can not exist with the rest of us, while while I love and forgive them, they still need to die.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

well maybe i will look into it, i just believe some things are worth hating

originally posted by: vjr1113
a reply to: OccamsRazor04

well maybe i will look into it, i just believe some things are worth hating

You may feel that way, and in some ways I agree. Unfortunately the person you punish is yourself.

I think God's emphasis on forgiveness is for a reason. Forgiving others helps you more than anyone else. It really is a very powerful thing. Including forgiving yourself.

ETA: I know you don't believe in God. So believe the science.