Dolphins Communicate Holograms And Now We Can See Them

so it is time to grant them rights, like for any other sentient being!

Thank you for sharing this

S&F

a reply to: whismermill

Hmmmm, would them having rights, also mean they would also be held responsible for actions they take generally considered criminal? Say if a gang of male dolphins were to trap and violate a female porpoise against her will, would they be charged, prosecuted and made to, well, do the time for the crime?

Will we open dolphin prisons? If we're to go this route these things must be considered, same with chimps, crows, ravens, ect. All of these are quite capable of and have been known to engage, in arguably knowingly, malicious activities.

It's nice to recognize the personhood of other species, I'm all for it, but we need to realize, that persons are not all good. With rights come responsibilities for one's actions.

Are you ready to prosecute a dolphin for crimes committed? We can't go half way. One is either a person or they are not.

If one is protected as a person, but not prosecuted as a person for crimes committed, then one instead has a privileged status.

a reply to: Puppylove

we already have dolphin prisons. They are called a dolphinarium.

and yes, along with certain rights there would ideally be certain obligations. But until we can actually talk to them and understand them, all of our imposed obligations to them would be useless. So let's just start with certain rights, figure out a way of communicating to them, and then discuss additional rights and obligations.

by the way, that is a very humancentric view you have there. First, i wouldn't call them persons but sentient beings. Second, why would they need to comply to human laws, or any particular country legislation for that matter? as far as i can tell, they reside in international waters most of the time, so I'm not even sure which legislation would be applicable to them?

a reply to: CharlieSpeirs

So telepathy basically?

No, nothing like telepathy. More like sonar.

a reply to: Kandinsky

Taken a little further, I've wondered if dolphins could share a mental awareness of scenes and incidents that span the world and possibly time too.

Dolphin world culture. A nice idea, but alas! there are several distinct species of dolphin, and most of them are somewhat restricted in range. One dolphin species, however, has a genuinely worldwide range, as wide or wider than humans': Orcinus orca.

By the way, did you know that dolphins go to sleep half a brain at a time?

I'm sure the grants will continue until they can identify enemy submarines by type.
Then it's off to see if they can make dolphins in to suicide bombers.
Science is always for the betterment of humanity, right?

a reply to: Astyanax

I'll be honest, Orca more than any other sea creature scare the # out of me.

a reply to: Puppylove

Orcas more than any other sea creatures scare the # out of me.

Then you will find this video, shot not fifty miles from where I'm sitting typing, will both jolt you and reassure you.

a reply to: Astyanax

Doesn't really reassure me that much... there was no point to killing the diver when they were working together to hunt bigger prey.

They scare me because they're smart and have demonstrated the ability to be really cruel and sadistic when they feel like it.

With a shark I know what to expect, either a curious nibble that might cost me an arm or it'll eat me or it'll ignore me. With an orca I have no idea, and orcas add the possibility of toying with me to the equation.

originally posted by: Kandinsky
a reply to: theantediluvian

I've thought this for, probably, twenty years although it wasn't in the context of holograms. Hypothetically, a dolphin that's echolocated a shoal of fish in the North Atlantic should be able to repeat the impression it received to a dolphin that had never been there.

Taken a little further, I've wondered if dolphins could share a mental awareness of scenes and incidents that span the world and possibly time too.

There was a five year project in the 80's called Project Janus using a lot of 'Analogue' and digital synth sound gear to work on Dolphin sounds as a means of a communicative language between Dolphins and humans by virtue of a similarity of human digitized speech and Dolphin clicks in the lower ranges, but they didn't use the very high unltrasound like here. It's difficult now to get a full rundown on that Project Janus, but one man's name I have is Dr John Lilley from back then.
The aim then was to create a forty whistle-word vocabulary with the dolphins, which was accomplished it seems, but I think they then realised there was more to it than just 'language' how much further they got, I don't know.

a reply to: smurfy
I remember that too.

Thanks for knocking off the cobwebs.

I think it had something to do with the military wanting to use them as spies and to carry weapons.

This is fascinating! Thank you for sharing!

a reply to: theantediluvian

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

It is amazing indeed, reminds me of this thread on foxes: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Dolphins are spiritual beings and i sure hope their species will survive the coming times.. because they are that important.

But as to communicate with them? I dont see it happen at all. They will always be misunderstood because the nature of their communication transcends anything humans can comprehend. Science cant accept telepathy, therefore it wont be able to understand them since nothing can observe telepathy at work especially when its telepathy from consciousness to consciousness and not brain to brain, without the use of words or anything remotely close. These beings coudnt understand the human language even if they wanted to because language by words is one of the less evolved way of communication, yeah i just said that.

I will always laugh to the dullness of humans that think their language is the most effective form of communication lol what a joke. Babylon reference anyone? There is an universal langage that only the infinitely dumb humans dont know about. Because they are so focused on their mouth, words and their restricted meanings they fail to see everything else. This universal language is used by all beings and children have a high tendency to manifest it. Dont they hear and see things adults dont? Dont they have a better intuition? All of these are signs of a transcendant sense and telepathy which become dormant at some point because of their parents brainwashing them with BS like writing, words and their own false beliefs. Btw this is the birth of the ego, when one denies its divine heritage by replacing it by something limited...

They are truly fascinating indeed. Beings that still escape the so called most evolved human mind, are and should remain a mystery, that makes them even more supreme to witness.

a reply to: _damon

If you think dolphins are enlightened spiritual beings either you don't know # about dolphins or are looking at them with blinders on. Dolphins as do their other intelligent kin in the animal kingdom have demonstrated all the same capabilities as us to fall to their darker natures.

Like humans, there are good and bad dolphins/orca, chimps, ravens/crows, elephants, octopi, ect.

Not a single creature yet that's demonstrated high intelligence has shown anything that even begins to hint at some transcendent or enlightened nature. All, like us, have demonstrated a great range of variance all the way from depraved monster to selfless hero.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
I'm sure the grants will continue until they can identify enemy submarines by type.
Then it's off to see if they can make dolphins in to suicide bombers.
Science is always for the betterment of humanity, right?

Sadly, I'm afraid we probably have already done that. I'm surprised you don't know about it? Maybe you do? Here:
www.businessinsider.com - The US Navy's combat dolphins are serious military assets...

The program first started in 1960 when the Navy studied Notty, a female Pacific white-sided dolphin. The Navy hoped to study the dolphin's biomechanics and then use its findings for developing faster torpedoes. "But quickly the focus changed to covert training," according to NBC.

There're claims by former servicemen the US used hte dolphins to potentially directly kill or deploy explosives, but the Navy denies this ever occurred. Intead the US Navy asserts they mainly used hte dolphins to identify potential threats, especially mines and swimmers.

en.wikipedia.org - United States Navy Marine Mammal Program...

The US Navy apparently never trained the dolphins to recognize enemy ships, but there're suggestions it was possible htey looked into it.

However, the Soviets apparenlty trained their dolphins to identify enemy submarines by the sound of the propeller:
gizmodo.com - All About the Military Dolphins of the US (And Now Russia)...

In additional to being able to detect mines like their American counterparts, Soviet dolphins were allegedly trained to attack divers with harpoons or knives attached to their backs. They also acted as marine kamikazes carrying mines that would rub up on the keels of enemy vessels. "Those dolphins could even distinguish between the sound of the propeller of foreign submarine and a Soviet one," according to Viktor Baranets, who worked in the Soviet military.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, Russia ended its military dolphin program. Although I've read reports the Ukranian Navy turned over its dolphins to Russia after the crisis in Crimea. Some of the Ukranian dolphins were given to Iran 15 years ago. The US is preparing to dismantle the program in 2017 and replace its dolphins with robots.

gizmodo.com - All About the Military Dolphins of the US (And Now Russia)...

In what is easily one of the stranger twists in the military takeover of Crimea, the Russians have seized control of Ukraine's navy dolphin fleet. Yes, dolphins. The annals of dolphin military history is actually teeming with improbable tales, so let this be your guide to the cetacean Cold War.

But, in recent years, Ukraine had shown interest in reviving the program, even announcing in 2012 an ambitious plan to train killer dolphins with knives on their heads. But that never seems to have gotten off the ground because they were planning to disband the dolphin program this April—that is, until the Russians decided to take over, intending to revitalize it. "The work will save unique scientific developments that were abandoned due to Ukraine's reluctance to finance the research in the field," boasted Pravda.

a reply to: _damon

Im not sure i agree with that.

Dolphins being able to communicate...would have to have been leveraged. And if so, then their brains had to have used natural selection to refine a better brain that is more in tune with the other dolphin brains, meaning that the communication likely congealed into a true communication, where they can discuss all manner of things within the purview of a dolphin.

If the tool is there, it will be used (Conservation of Energy). Otherwise animals would have things like venomous fangs that go unused. If the tool is there, it will be used.

If that is the case, its just a matter of refining our ability to read the communication, then determine what it means to the dolphin. If the dolphin can meet us in the middle, so much the better.

a reply to: Puppylove

They have never been known to attack a human as far as I know. I suspect they recognise us as fellow sentients, even though our ways of being are so different.

You know Stephen Jay Gould's phrase, ' non-overlapping magisterial? I think it applies, though not in the sense he used it for. We are masters of the land. They are masters of the sea. Each equally helpless in each other's element, also.

I know what you mean. We've all seen those videos of orcas playing volleyball on a Patagonian beach using sea-lion cubs as balls. I have seen dolphins chuck smaller dolphins into the air -- you can see it hurts -- for nothing but fun. Bullies. They're as bad as us. Maybe worse. I

For me, it strengthens the guilty feeling of kinship.

a reply to: Puppylove

They have never been known to attack a human as far as I know. I suspect they recognise us as fellow sentients, even though our ways of being are so different.

You know Stephen Jay Gould's phrase, ' non-overlapping magisterial? I think it applies, though not in the sense he used it for. We are masters of the land. They are masters of the sea. Each equally helpless in each other's element, also.

I know what you mean. We've all seen those videos of orcas playing volleyball on a Patagonian beach using sea-lion cubs as balls. I have seen dolphins chuck smaller dolphins into the air -- you can see it hurts -- for nothing but fun. Bullies. They're as bad as us. Maybe worse. I

For me, it strengthens the guilty feeling of kinship.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
Forgive me for not replying to everyone individually but I found some additional information which may answer many of your questions at the CymaScope website.

The Discovery of Dolphin Language

The precise mechanism concerning how the sonic image is ‘read’ by the cochleae is still unknown but the team’s present hypothesis is that each click-pulse causes the image to momentarily manifest on the basilar and tectorial membranes, thin sheets of tissue situated in the heart of each cochlea. Microscopic cilia connect with the tectorial membrane and ‘read’ the shape of the imprint, creating a composite electrical signal representing the object’s shape. This electrical signal travels to the brain via the cochlea nerve and is interpreted as an image. (The example in the graphic shows a flowerpot.) The team postulates that dolphins are able to perceive stereoscopically with their sound imaging sense. Since the dolphin emits long trains of click-pulses it is believed that it has persistence of sono-pictorial perception, analogous to video playback in which a series of still frames are viewed as moving images.

Reid said, “The CymaScope imaging technique substitutes a circular water membrane for the dolphin's tectorial, gel-like membrane and a camera for the dolphin's brain. We image the sono-picture as it imprints on the surface tension of water, a technique we call ‘bio-cymatic imaging,’ capturing the picture before it expands to the boundary. We think that something similar happens in the dolphin’s cochleae where the sonic image, contained in the reflected click-pulse, travels as a surface acoustic wave along the basilar and tectorial membranes and imprints in an area that relates to the carrier frequency of the click-pulse. With our bio-cymatic imaging technique we believe we see a similar image to that which the dolphin sees when it scans an object with sound. In the flowerpot image the hand of the person holding it can even be seen. The images are rather fuzzy at present but we hope to enhance the technique in future.”

Being largely ignorant of the particulars of dolphin physiology, this answered some of my own questions. Essentially they're saying the water+camera in the CymaScope and membranes+cilia in the dolphin's cochleae are operating on the same principles. I'm honestly still trying to wrap my head around how this works. I'm only familiar with "Cymatics" from seeing demonstrations involving Chladni plates and some of the claims people are making about it seem a bit woo-y. Maybe somebody with the a better understanding of the physics involved would like to weigh in?

Your best bet, without me linking you to programs which visualize the wave fronts for cymatics would be to understand that the amplitude of the waves can be added together to increase the amplitude or decrease the amplitude of the waves as though they were standing waves.

So what you see with the speakers and a plate is that the material on the plate is moved by the highest amplitudes of the waves. The pattern is a result of those wave fronts.

Youtube has some decent explanations of with neat pictures.

-FBB