Dolphins Communicate Holograms And Now We Can See Them

This is pretty awesome stuff, S&F OP.

My son is just about to graduate from the Colorado School of Mines, and one of his primary interests is underwater accoustics, so I know he would really appreciate this! I will bookmark this and share it with him, thanks again!

Incredible post my friend! amazing new which i have no idea about!...science is definitely the best thing we have

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous
a reply to: theantediluvian


Excellent Post.. I love this stuff!

A fascinating article and post based on something that I've always wondered about.

I wonder now if the same application/theory could be applied in the possible decoding of something akin to the communication of a honey bee's dance. Supposedly after a bee has made a discovery it will return back to the hive and do "a dance" (this is not my terminology) and the surrounding bees then know exactly where to go.

Granted these are not clicks or sounds (that we know of), but perhaps we just found another piece of the puzzle to help unravel other mysteries.

We know what the honey bee dance represents. The direction relative to the Sun is given by the direction relative to the gravitational bottom of the hive (vertical hives) or the direction of the entrance (horizontal honeycombs). The number of wiggles or length of the walk gives the distance. Samples of food tell everyone what it is. If someone knows a better food location they head butt the dancer. Scientists were able to create artificial dances which led honey bees to particular locations. It was observed that honey bees also generate a minimum distance path round all the flowers.

We've also managed to visualize thunder; the originating lightning bolt is actually a sharp crack (like a spark, but several octaves lower). The rumble is actually thousands of echoes due to differing air densities of air and water droplets. If the two technologies could be combined, we could see what the dolphins were seeing electronically.

www.digitaltrends.com...

originally posted by: Spiramirabilis
a reply to: theantediluvian

I almost can't stand it it's so cool

It's not just what they see with sound - it's what they say with sound

Am I understanding this right? They can speak in pictures?

With sonar they are sending out clicks, but they received back a picture due to the speeds of the different echoes. But since each dolphin would send out the same kind of clicks, other dolphins can understand the picture too...

But could a dolphin think of a picture or phrase at the same time as they were talking, and other dolphins think of the same picture?

Perhaps that would work with humans talking on a telephone. The other person would subconsciously think of that picture or phrase.

originally posted by: JohnnyAnonymous
a reply to: theantediluvian


Excellent Post.. I love this stuff!

A fascinating article and post based on something that I've always wondered about.

I wonder now if the same application/theory could be applied in the possible decoding of something akin to the communication of a honey bee's dance. Supposedly after a bee has made a discovery it will return back to the hive and do "a dance" (this is not my terminology) and the surrounding bees then know exactly where to go.

Granted these are not clicks or sounds (that we know of), but perhaps we just found another piece of the puzzle to help unravel other mysteries.

The bee's dance seems to be more of a combination of the chemicals being emitted by the dancer and the charges generated on their antennae.

The dolphins are utilizing pressure waves (precursor to sound waves) to generate a 3D image where the bees are utilizing EM waves.

Both are utilizing wave forms, but the bees seem to get more directional information as opposed to information that can be reconstructed into what the dolphins are seeing.

en.wikipedia.org...

A waggle dance consists of one to 100 or more circuits, each of which consists of two phases: the waggle phase and the return phase. A worker bee's waggle dance involves running through a small figure-eight pattern: a waggle run (aka waggle phase) followed by a turn to the right to circle back to the starting point (aka return phase), another waggle run, followed by a turn and circle to the left, and so on in a regular alternation between right and left turns after waggle runs. Waggle-dancing bees produce and release two alkanes, tricosane and pentacosane, and two alkenes, (Z)-9-tricosene and (Z)-9-pentacosene, onto their abdomens and into the air.[4]

. . .

Honeybees accumulate an electric charge during flying and when their body parts are moved or rubbed together. Bees emit constant and modulated electric fields during the waggle dance. Both low- and high-frequency components emitted by dancing bees induce passive antennal movements in stationary bees according to Coulomb's Law. The electrically charged flagellum of mechanoreceptor cells are moved by electric fields and more strongly so if sound and electric fields interact. Recordings from axons of the Johnston's organ indicate its sensitivity to electric fields. Therefore, it has been suggested that electric fields emanating from the surface charge of bees stimulate mechanoreceptors and may play a role in social communication during the waggle dance.

This line of research is awesome and something I have been very interested in as researchers have also been designing systems which use sound waves to move objects, so if they can map and move with the same systems some really cool stuff will come out of it.

-FBB

a reply to: stormcell

But could a dolphin think of a picture or phrase at the same time as they were talking, and other dolphins think of the same picture?

I have a feeling we're going to find out eventually

All I know is my head nearly exploded when I thought of the possibilities

If I look at all the art painted at the Sistine Chapel at once it's too much to take in - it's just a kind of beautiful visual noise. Once I familiarize myself with it - stories emerge from that noise

I understand that they're dolphins and not people, but knowing that they can create pictures - who knows what they're capable of saying to each other

I'm just going to allow myself to be a little self indulgent for a while and linger over all those possibilities

Waoo Nice one thread......awesome videos .I like all videos ..

a reply to: stormcell

But since each dolphin would send out the same kind of clicks, other dolphins can understand the picture too...

That wouldn't be how it worked at all. Dolphins process a pattern of sonic returns — that is, echoes — as an image.

If a dolphin wanted to say 'boat hull', he would simply produce a similar sonic pattern.

But could a dolphin think of a picture or phrase at the same time as they were talking, and other dolphins think of the same picture?

A little confusion here, I think. Consider again how this would work, if it were in fact the case.

a reply to: FriedBabelBroccoli
The dolphins are under water so they pretty much use the medium that is available to them right.

The bees are much smaller and there are a lot more of them, so they have to use Wifi.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: FriedBabelBroccoli
The dolphins are under water so they pretty much use the medium that is available to them right.

The bees are much smaller and there are a lot more of them, so they have to use Wifi.

Basically yes, but sound waves and radio waves are different.

Sound is a pressure wave

Underwater accoustics

Theory
Sound waves in water

A sound wave propagating underwater consists of alternating compressions and rarefactions of the water. These compressions and rarefactions are detected by a receiver, such as the human ear or a hydrophone, as changes in pressure. These waves may be man-made or naturally generated.
Speed of sound, density and impedance

The speed of sound c , (i.e., the longitudinal motion of wavefronts) is related to frequency f , and wavelength lambda , of a wave by c = f cdot lambda.

This is different from the particle velocity u ,, which refers to the motion of molecules in the medium due to the sound, and relates the plane wave pressure p , to the fluid density rho , and sound speed c , by p = c cdot u cdot rho.

The product of c and rho , from the above formula is known as the characteristic acoustic impedance. The acoustic power (energy per second) crossing unit area is known as the intensity of the wave and for a plane wave the average intensity is given by I = q^2/(rho c) ,, where q , is the root mean square acoustic pressure.

At 1 kHz, the wavelength in water is about 1.5 m. Sometimes the term "sound velocity" is used but this is incorrect as the quantity is a scalar.

The large impedance contrast between air and water (the ratio is about 3600) and the scale of surface roughness means that the sea surface behaves as an almost perfect reflector of sound at frequencies below 1 kHz. Sound speed in water exceeds that in air by a factor of 4.4 and the density ratio is about 820.

The EM waves behave differently, so the wave front 'pushing' on the bees antennae works more towards providing a direction vector with the hardware they have developed.

Propagation of EM waves

Electromagnetic waves are waves which can travel through the vacuum of outer space. Mechanical waves, unlike electromagnetic waves, require the presence of a material medium in order to transport their energy from one location to another. Sound waves are examples of mechanical waves while light waves are examples of electromagnetic waves.

The bees encode spatial distance more in the duration of their dance.

You are correct that radio waves can be used to this effect, but the biological hardware is hard to come by and isn't really supported by the observational data.

A genetically engineering Ham-Bee sounds ( apologies, I know its bad ) like a really cool idea though.

-FBB

So telepathy basically???

That's so cool.

Wonder if it will ever help us schizo affectives who see things.
They appear to me very "holographic".


S&F

Forgive me for not replying to everyone individually but I found some additional information which may answer many of your questions at the CymaScope website.

The Discovery of Dolphin Language

The precise mechanism concerning how the sonic image is ‘read’ by the cochleae is still unknown but the team’s present hypothesis is that each click-pulse causes the image to momentarily manifest on the basilar and tectorial membranes, thin sheets of tissue situated in the heart of each cochlea. Microscopic cilia connect with the tectorial membrane and ‘read’ the shape of the imprint, creating a composite electrical signal representing the object’s shape. This electrical signal travels to the brain via the cochlea nerve and is interpreted as an image. (The example in the graphic shows a flowerpot.) The team postulates that dolphins are able to perceive stereoscopically with their sound imaging sense. Since the dolphin emits long trains of click-pulses it is believed that it has persistence of sono-pictorial perception, analogous to video playback in which a series of still frames are viewed as moving images.

Reid said, “The CymaScope imaging technique substitutes a circular water membrane for the dolphin's tectorial, gel-like membrane and a camera for the dolphin's brain. We image the sono-picture as it imprints on the surface tension of water, a technique we call ‘bio-cymatic imaging,’ capturing the picture before it expands to the boundary. We think that something similar happens in the dolphin’s cochleae where the sonic image, contained in the reflected click-pulse, travels as a surface acoustic wave along the basilar and tectorial membranes and imprints in an area that relates to the carrier frequency of the click-pulse. With our bio-cymatic imaging technique we believe we see a similar image to that which the dolphin sees when it scans an object with sound. In the flowerpot image the hand of the person holding it can even be seen. The images are rather fuzzy at present but we hope to enhance the technique in future.”

Being largely ignorant of the particulars of dolphin physiology, this answered some of my own questions. Essentially they're saying the water+camera in the CymaScope and membranes+cilia in the dolphin's cochleae are operating on the same principles. I'm honestly still trying to wrap my head around how this works. I'm only familiar with "Cymatics" from seeing demonstrations involving Chladni plates and some of the claims people are making about it seem a bit woo-y. Maybe somebody with the a better understanding of the physics involved would like to weigh in?

a reply to: theantediluvian

I've thought this for, probably, twenty years although it wasn't in the context of holograms. Hypothetically, a dolphin that's echolocated a shoal of fish in the North Atlantic should be able to repeat the impression it received to a dolphin that had never been there.

Taken a little further, I've wondered if dolphins could share a mental awareness of scenes and incidents that span the world and possibly time too.

i like turtles
and they dont hump for fun

a reply to: lifecitizen

originally posted by: CharlieSpeirs
So telepathy basically???

No, it's not even remotely similar to telepathy.

Anyhoo, can someone clarify something for me? After reading the article, my understanding is that while a human was submerged with a dolphin, they recorded the clicks the dolphin made, and used those recordings to recreate a 3D image of sorts. It's late and I've been drinking, so I may be missing something, but isn't that the gist of it?

If so, how does this teach us anything new about how dolphins communicate? The sounds used to create the image were recorded while the person was physically in the tank, not sometime later, so isn't this just a basic demonstration of how sonar works? Any other sound (regardless of the source) propagating through the water at the same time and recorded using the same setup would yield the same image, would it not?

We've known for decades that dolphins use sonar to communicate and navigate. I'm just not understanding how this teaches us anything new...

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

We know that they communicate with sonar, but before now we didn't know the intricacies of it. Now we've gone so far as to actually see that communication to the point of seeing to a degree how they see it. We're one step closer to being able to decipher their language ourselves.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: theantediluvian
We as human make the mistake sometimes when we think we are the superior life forms on this planet. We think if we can't see it, hear it, or do, then it doesn't exist and surely no creature lower than us, has the ability to do so.

Of course that isn't correct, but it doesn't stop us from thinking and feeling that way. Problem is that we limit ourselves, and our abilities with this way of thinking.

Sound is visible to us under the right circumstances, and some people have actually learned how to see with sound.

Imagine the possibilities, if we stopped trying to conquer everything, and tried living in harmony with everything.

Well, humans clearly are superior to any other species from Earth, but that doesn't change the level of awesome present in the animal kingdom. I just can't wait until we have translation devices for certain species especially crows and dolphins. I wonder what this discovery could mean for the future of animal to human translation devices.