Weaponry for Home Defence in the UK

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You know the craziest thing about UK law is that if asked by a police constable why you are carrying hot chilli sauce and replied "For the purpose of self defence" then that would be a criminal offence. lol

...it is why understanding the law and how it is interpreted is so important.

A mate of mine had a cs spray made to look like a disposable lighter but had to get rid of it because, well it looks just like a disposable lighter...

originally posted by: nonspecific
What some kind of spray perhaps?....

Interesting concept...

Nah, I was thinking just sprinkling it on some .45ACP before you load it into the magazine.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Ooh nasty

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

You know the craziest thing about UK law is that if asked by a police constable why you are carrying hot chilli sauce and replied "For the purpose of self defence" then that would be a criminal offence. lol

...it is why understanding the law and how it is interpreted is so important.

Yup, if they're not on or near a table/food - they're classed as weapons and carrying them is same as carrying a knife - you need reasonable grounds etc....if you carrying them because you've just realised you've forgotten the super special secret ingredient to your homemade chilli/curry and had to nip out to the shops and get them, then they're perfectly legal.

The law makes no sense.

originally posted by: nonspecific
Ooh nasty

I know, right? Imagine the surprise.

'Hey man! I think you just shot me. Oooooh, wait, wait. The pepper makes it burn!!! Owwwwwwwww!!!!!'

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Haha!
It is also illegal in the UK for a bar to serve alcohol to people who are intoxicated.
We do have some crazy laws, and a new one created a few weeks ago is proper silly, it is illegal for an adult driver of a car to smoke in the vehicle if an under 18 is a passenger, sounds simple right.
My son and I were on a road trip last week and as he is 17, when he was driving it was legal for me to smoke, but when I was driving it was illegal for me to smoke.

Law is just a distraction to me though generally, hardly any cops in my underfunded and understaffed police area, we tend to sort things out ourselves in these parts.

originally posted by: grainofsand
It is also illegal in the UK for a bar to serve alcohol to people who are intoxicated.

We also have that.

But I just have the bartender sprinkle some Maldon sea salt and some ancho chili powder on that law and we get plastered.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Haha we have after hours 'lock-ins' in my area, nobody cares about the law to be fair, there'd be riots if the cops tried to enforce that, plenty of chilli sauce n sea salt would be exchanged for sure.

I have a bow 34Lb pull and I found some trees that make great bows.
3/4 of a inch 26Lb pull. and a 1 1/8 inch one.
may be to much pull on that for me.
you get tips of ebay and use feathers.
sticks from wood shop.
Crossbows is to slow to load.

oh and some samurai swords.
two cans of wosp spray, its like mase.
but you can not have mase!!!
and a alsatian soft thing.
but looks meen. hates the post man!

originally posted by: wildb

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: KingDoey

I live in the UK, and I take home defence pretty seriously.

I have a Bowie knife next to my bed, five feet from which I also keep a cricket bat, a long tool handle which can behave as a workable staff, a pair of handcuffs for which there is no key (I do not need a key. I am adept at picking them) and a defunct bass guitar. I kept the old guitar stringed up, because in a pinch I could slip one of the strings off to use as a choke... Just to knock someone out you understand.

I have a daily use bass as well, so defence of the home does not equate to a lack of deep tones. I used to keep my bill hook (essentially a gussied up machete like object) right by the bed, but I decided that it is better off kept down stairs, in our shop. Of course, back in the home, there is also a kitchen full of objects, the sharpening of which is something I manage myself.

What do you when someone breaks in with a gun, just saying..

Your more likely to be mauled to death by a koala.

People dont break in with guns, its just not worth it. If your caught breaking in you will get a few years tops but most likely probation if first time and no ones hurt. Break in with a gun and your looking at 10+ years minimum, fire that gun and your looking at 20+ years.kill someone and ypu likely not getting out.

If some one breaks into your house with a gun its either:
A) the police
B) you owe someone a # ton of drug money.

Either way you have gone wrong somewhere in your life.

Most gun crime here isolated to gang verse gang warfare and in a few rare cases the odd crazy or a IRA shooting.

a reply to: grainofsand

Possessing an item for the purposes of self defence is illegal, are you able to see the subtle difference?

No, If possessing a weapon for self defense is illegal then self defense is illegal. For one to have the ability to defend they must have the means to do so. The denial of the means is the denial of self defense..

a reply to: crazyewok

I posted similar n the previous page, fear of being shot is rare as hens teeth unless you are flowing in the dark world in the UK. Crim's sometimes even 'encourage' folk to hand themselves in when a crime is particularly bad and innocents are needlessly killed with a rented gun.
We knife each other here instead, and that is preferable to being shot in my book.
Different cultures is all, some US members just can't get it as it is so alien to their psyche.

originally posted by: wildb
a reply to: grainofsand

Possessing an item for the purposes of self defence is illegal, are you able to see the subtle difference?

No, If possessing a weapon for self defense is illegal then self defense is illegal. For one to have the ability to defend they must have the means to do so. The denial of the means is the denial of self defense..

Wow, it really is too subtle for you to understand lol.
I own a crossbow for the purposes of enjoyable hobby target shooting. It is legally held because of that reason.

If I owned the crossbow "just in case" for the purposes of self defence then it would not be legally held.

Because I legally own my crossbow for purposes of entertainment and not self defence, if my home was invaded by men it could be easily argued that I used it reasonably while stood at the top of my stairs to defend myself.

We are allowed to defend ourselves with reasonable force in the UK. My example with the crossbow would be lawfully using an incidental weapon with reasonable force.

Which bit do you not understand?
Is the law in England and Wales too nuanced or subtle for you?

a reply to: grainofsand

I understand, its very gray and up to interpretation by a person and there opinion. Here where I live if someone enters my home uninvited and with Ill intent I simply shoot them dead and then call the police to come take the body away. End of story..

originally posted by: wildb
a reply to: grainofsand

I understand, its very gray and up to interpretation by a person and there opinion. Here where I live if someone enters my home uninvited and with Ill intent I simply shoot them dead and then call the police to come take the body away. End of story..

You see that's where we differ.
If you've read all of this topic then you will know I stabbed a burglar through the upper chest/shoulder area many years ago, then tended him until the ambulance I called arrived.
I walked without even a caution because I used reasonable force and did not needlessly stab him multiple times until he was dead.

I am an advocate of reasonable force.

a reply to: grainofsand

I am an advocate of reasonable force.

Over here that could get you jail time and a law suit at the very least..

originally posted by: wildb
a reply to: grainofsand

I am an advocate of reasonable force.

Over here that could get you jail time and a law suit at the very least..

Did you not just say that you would shoot a guy dead in the same situation?

Would that get you sent to jail and sued also then?

a reply to: nonspecific

I could get sued but no jail time.. We have a law called the Castle Doctrine..

originally posted by: wildb
a reply to: grainofsand

Over here that could get you jail time and a law suit at the very least..

Different worlds then, I've no fear of defending myself in the UK and keeping the person I used reasonable force on alive.
Your justice system must be pretty piss poor if killing burglars is the only way to guarantee you won't get done over by 'authority'.

originally posted by: grainofsand
a reply to: crazyewok

I posted similar n the previous page, fear of being shot is rare as hens teeth unless you are flowing in the dark world in the UK. Crim's sometimes even 'encourage' folk to hand themselves in when a crime is particularly bad and innocents are needlessly killed with a rented gun.
We knife each other here instead, and that is preferable to being shot in my book.
Different cultures is all, some US members just can't get it as it is so alien to their psyche.

Can confirm this to be true. Even in top end crime real gangsters will do things called 'frighteners'. I know one lad who had his front door removed from it's hinges by a rival Manchester gang (yes THAT one) after they heard he was stepping on their turf. It sends the warning message with no guns or police involved and no one got hurt. It's how they get away with it for decades, everyone wins.

Most gun shootings are early teenagers in gangs and I'd take a good guess they receive more punishment than just having to pay the deposit back from their higher ups. Golf clubs and cattleprods are the main weapons of choice on a particular estate in my City - but only class A dealers, weed growers and wife beaters ever see the back of them.

US viewers - watch this to see how things get settled on the underworld/streets of the UK - www.youtube.com...

Even 'The Devil' (hardest man in the UK and ex super criminal) is an avid anti-gun campaigner: www.youtube.com...

Different countries different situations/rules.