7-yr-old girl killed at MI soccer practice after ‘paranoid’ man with CCW license opens fire

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Problem is we can't and shouldn't punish people because of maybe.

What maybe? A guy with a concealed carry permit started to believe things that are demonstrably ridiculous. I fail to see how taking away his right to carry because he is not in his right mind is any different than say, taking away a drunks drivers licence. He'd probably carry anyway, just like the boozers keep driving, but at least someone made an effort.

Words can not describe.. My heart is broken for her and her family. There has to be Heaven for this Angel.

originally posted by: FyreByrd

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Problem is we can't and shouldn't punish people because of maybe.

We don't let blind people drive automobiles? Is that a punishment?

You would have to check if they are blind first.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Who gets to decide?

How do we know when a sane person is going to snap?

...and did the people who knew he was having issues even know he had a gun?

a reply to: intrepid

This is the first time I've heard of a CCW holder just "going off".
No, this doesn't happen weekly, monthly or perhaps even yearly.
A purse snatcher got shot in the back, not much to cry about there imo.
Can you name other instances of CCW holders being irresponsible?

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

The details of this story don't seem to add up. This guy feels paranoid and that someone is trying to control his mind? So he shoots a kid and her mother in a car and turns the gun on himself? "A trusted family friend"?

That doesn't make any sense. The details sound much more like a lover's feud, or maybe a rejected man's revenge. What was he doing at the girl's soccer practice? Did he come with the mother and daughter? Or did he ambush them? The police reports don't go into any of the details about why they think he believed he was being mind controled. I think that is some pretty important info if we are going to blame this on mental health. Especially when the details point towards something else.

The story is missing some key details and the headline doesn't match the story. This all points to a contrived effort to paint ccw's in a bad light.

"Opens fire" sounds like he randomly fired into a crowd, but he specifically targeted this lady and her daughter. Were they in the car trying to get away from him?

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: intrepid

This is the first time I've heard of a CCW holder just "going off".
No, this doesn't happen weekly, monthly or perhaps even yearly.
A purse snatcher got shot in the back, not much to cry about there imo.
Can you name other instances of CCW holders being irresponsible?

Here are some statistics on mass murders commited by CCW holders:

Mass Shootings Committed By Concealed Carry Killers
May 2007 to the Present

Here is where the lack of studies on gun violence is disturbing. Congress has actively blocked funding such studies.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

But this isn't a mass shooting event, which is defined as a person killing three or more people, not including their self. This also isn't a person killing random people. He specifically targeted these two people. Which is why this is a contrived story. The headline makes this a fine example of bad journalism. All of the defining details are curiously omitted.

originally posted by: Blackmarketeer
7-yr-old girl killed at MI soccer practice after ‘paranoid’ man with concealed carry license opens fire

7-year-old girl died at soccer practice Thursday night and a family friend who had been experiencing paranoia is accused of shooting her in the head before taking his own life.

Emma Nowling and her mother, Sharon Watson, were shot after the little girl’s soccer practice session at the Taylor Sportsplex in Michigan. Watson is listed in serious but stable condition, while Nowling died Thursday night after suffering head injuries, MLive.com reports. Authorities describe the suspect, Timothy Nelson Obeshaw, as a family friend who had a concealed carry permit and a legally-purchased gun.

Police say a 9 mm pistol recovered from the shooting scene was registered to Obeshaw.

The man had recently been experiencing paranoia, thought someone was out to get him and believed someone was trying to control him through mind control, Taylor police Chief Mary Sclabassi told MLive.

This country has some serious problems. ISIS doesn't have to bother coming over here to commit acts of terrorism, we commit them against ourselves everyday with senseless acts like this one.

The amazing thing is, that you literally compare a mentally unstable man who got a license to carry, to Operatives and Soldiers who fight for a current ESTABLISHED CALIPHATE, chop heads off, rape girls, kill gays, rape boys, and PLAN to establish Sharia Law throughout the ME and the world.

I guess you can use any story to bolster a view. It's just sad that your equivocation is so pathetic.

I want to know which police found evidence he thought he was being mind-controlled and what exactly that evidence was since his closest associates saw no signs of mental illness.

I want to know who registered the gun in his name. Was it actually him? He was 57 yrs. old. How long had he had that gun that he decided to register? Was it a recent purchase? If so, where did he purchase it?

I want to know how long he had lived with the couple and child and why he moved out this summer. Based on recent posts right here on ATS, now I want to know WHO owned the house he moved into and how long have they owned it.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Didn't some wanna be hero shoot and kill the owner of a truck not more than a month or 2 ago
here's your hero
www.rawstory.com...
Last week we had the dumbass shooting at a shoplifter..it does happen too often if you care to look

My take is about 25% of the population is..well stupid and has no critical thinking skills..they do not deserve to carry.

originally posted by: milom
Words can not describe.. My heart is broken for her and her family. There has to be Heaven for this Angel.

There is, many have seen it and met family and friends that they knew here.

Just in case any of her loved ones who might be suffering come across this post:

In heaven, children are there, all the ones who died young, in childbirth, or were aborted.
Link

“Under the trees, she saw groups of happy little children playing, catching brightly colored birds that seemed to play along with them. When he asked the angel who had brought him there who they were, he was told they were the children the earth did not want. The angel explained to him that these children longed to see their mothers come to Heaven and be reunited with them.” Link

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

But this isn't a mass shooting event, which is defined as a person killing three or more people, not including their self. This also isn't a person killing random people. He specifically targeted these two people. Which is why this is a contrived story. The headline makes this a fine example of bad journalism. All of the defining details are curiously omitted.

The whole mass shooting label is really political these days. It was and still is in many databases 4 or more killed, the FBI now says 3 or more. Mother Jones show 67 since 1988 but I went to one site and they list 353 for 2015 alone. They said even if 2 or more injured with no deaths it is a mass shooting. What we have in many of these cases is murder suicide, so we really need to figure out why so many want to end their lives and the family and/or friends around them.

originally posted by: Murgatroid

originally posted by: milom
Words can not describe.. My heart is broken for her and her family. There has to be Heaven for this Angel.

There is, many have seen it and met family and friends that they knew here.

Just in case any of her loved ones who might be suffering come across this post:

In heaven, children are there, all the ones who died young, in childbirth, or were aborted.
Link

“Under the trees, she saw groups of happy little children playing, catching brightly colored birds that seemed to play along with them. When he asked the angel who had brought him there who they were, he was told they were the children the earth did not want. The angel explained to him that these children longed to see their mothers come to Heaven and be reunited with them.” Link

Way to go... Never let a good tragedy go to waste when you can use it to sell your idea of religion.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: Woodcarver
a reply to: Blackmarketeer

But this isn't a mass shooting event, which is defined as a person killing three or more people, not including their self. This also isn't a person killing random people. He specifically targeted these two people. Which is why this is a contrived story. The headline makes this a fine example of bad journalism. All of the defining details are curiously omitted.

The whole mass shooting label is really political these days. It was and still is in many databases 4 or more killed, the FBI now says 3 or more. Mother Jones show 67 since 1988 but I went to one site and they list 353 for 2015 alone. They said even if 2 or more injured with no deaths it is a mass shooting. What we have in many of these cases is murder suicide, so we really need to figure out why so many want to end their lives and the family and/or friends around them.

I agree. The "why" is far more important than the "how".

My heart goes out to the family and people involved. It sounds as though the guy was coming down with schizophrenia. It's very difficult to identify schizophrenia in the early stages. It's also difficult to get someone help if they have it. Generally they have to be a danger to themselves or others to be hospitalized against their will. If the person isn't making threats then generally they can't be held.

It is very difficult to get mental health help in Michigan. Here is a bill in the legislature right now. I've been trying to decipher it but I'm not a Philadelphia lawyer. To me it sounds like their cutting funding.

Anyone have an opinion on this bill?

www.legislature.mi.gov...

I'm calling my state rep tomorrow to find out more about it.

originally posted by: intrepid
I think the point is that people are always saying, "Criminals will still own and have guns and do evil with them." The point of this is that all laws were followed and a child still lost her life. At least that's how I read it.

Yes and thus the only safe thing to do is remove guns from the public's hands.

My heart goes out to the family and people involved. It sounds as though the guy was coming down with schizophrenia. It's very difficult to identify schizophrenia in the early stages. It's also difficult to get someone help if they have it. Generally they have to be a danger to themselves or others to be hospitalized against their will. If the person isn't making threats then generally they can't be held.

It is very difficult to get mental health help in Michigan. Here is a bill in the legislature right now. I've been trying to decipher it but I'm not a Philadelphia lawyer. To me it sounds like their cutting funding.

Unlikely.

1% of the population (2.2 million Americans) will develop schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia typically appears when a person is in his or her teens to early 20s.

Most people prefer to be left alone and are not violent.

www.dosomething.org...

a reply to: Xtrozero

'Multiple murders' as you say is a 'mass shooting.' If someone targets a group, a family, or indiscriminately shoots into a crowd, it should be considered a mass shooting. Several people in this thread alone have tried to elevate the bar for what is considered a mass shooting as a technicality to have them not count. Maybe that is why so many people remain blinded to how much gun violence there is in this country.

originally posted by: SeaWorthy

My heart goes out to the family and people involved. It sounds as though the guy was coming down with schizophrenia. It's very difficult to identify schizophrenia in the early stages. It's also difficult to get someone help if they have it. Generally they have to be a danger to themselves or others to be hospitalized against their will. If the person isn't making threats then generally they can't be held.

It is very difficult to get mental health help in Michigan. Here is a bill in the legislature right now. I've been trying to decipher it but I'm not a Philadelphia lawyer. To me it sounds like their cutting funding.

Unlikely.

1% of the population (2.2 million Americans) will develop schizophrenia.

Schizophrenia typically appears when a person is in his or her teens to early 20s.

Most people prefer to be left alone and are not violent.

www.dosomething.org...

Your not going to tell me anything I don't know. I've had schizophrenia for 20 years. It doesn't hit people over night. For me it was a 3 years from onset to full blown. People can develop it out side of the given time frame which it is generally excepted. Women usually get it later in life then men. People can also experience psychosis similar to schizophrenia form drugs and alcohol use.

I've know other schizophrenics in my life. I've seen plenty of them in the hospital. Paranoia and saying someone is out to get them and control their mind is a dead give away. I've experienced it first hand. That was before I thought the CIA bugged my teeth and I tried to pull them out with a pair of pliers.