7-yr-old girl killed at MI soccer practice after ‘paranoid’ man with CCW license opens fire

originally posted by: skoalman88
Is it possible that the mental issue is a bunch of bull#? No, no one would ever lie about a tragedy to further an agenda...

The agenda is obfuscation to the point of inaction. It's been that FOREVER.

Poor child.
My heart goes out to her and her family.
Senseless death.


As someone who has battled mental health issues, paranoia of this nature for several years, yet fortunate enough to know that guns are futile if you're being "mind controlled" (as a weapon could be turned against you)...why on Earth anyone would think that a firearm or any lethal action against another was the solution eludes me completely.

If anyone is reading this and is suffering with paranoid thoughts of "mind control" please see a professional ASAP. There is help out there to help regain your mental stability and weapons are never the solution in that type of paranoid situation.

Once again, my deepest sympathies to this family and my prayers for this little girl.

originally posted by: intrepid
a reply to: Xtrozero

So you're saying that Americans by and large are nuts?

I'm saying in a population of 330 million there will be nuts and everyone of them ends up on the news when they kill. We have about 8k gun murders and 4k other type of weapon murders in the us per year. A large percentage of 5k pistol murders are bad guys killing bad guys. With 330 million people what kind of numbers are you trying to reduce that would make a real difference if we made owning guns illegal?

a reply to: Wildbob77

Actually mental health providers have the responsibility of reporting patients whom they believe to be planning some kind of violent action. But, not everyone who is mentally ill should be considered a risk for purchasing firearms.

The main problem with creating a database of everyone who has ever been treated for any kind of mental illness will definitely cause a lot of people to think twice about seeking mental health services to begin with. Seeking mental health services is still considered to be an embarrassment for many people. And those people, if they do decide to seek help, prefer to do so anonymously. If they believe they will wind up on some list, they will definitely not seek the help they may need.

This is a tricky issue. Perhaps people who seek CCW permits should be subjected to a little more scrutiny. However, unless the psychological testing is intensive, most people would still not demonstrate that there is any need for concern on the part of the psychologist.

I have thought about trying to pass the background test to see if I qualify to purchase a firearm. If I were to pass the check, then I would call that system a total fail. If I'm not on a "no purchase list", I should be. Unfortunately, if I were to fill out the form requesting the background check, I would have to lie about my mental illness, which is illegal.

On the other hand, as others have pointed out, there are lots of other weapons that are available to anyone who intends to do harm. Knives and swords are readily available. I have a small collection of these tools and I'm pretty good at wielding them. Although I assure everyone that I have no intention or reason to use them in an illegal fashion.

Not to mention the fact that I have a lot of family and friends who "would drop a dime" in a heartbeat if they believe I had "left the reservation." In fact I have instructed them to do so!

-dex

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Problem is we can't and shouldn't punish people because of maybe.

Do you feel the same about drink-driving ? After all not everyone who drinks and drives is involved in an accident, fatal or otherwise.

Somebody suffering from paranoid delusions should not have access to guns as they are a danger to themselves and others. It would have been no punishment to removes his access to firearms - rather, it would have been a kindness.

a reply to: UmbraSumus

I hate drunk drivers but driving is a privilege so I fail to see your point.

It is all horrible I say. When it comes to guns I think parents should have the law thrown at them if they do not secure their guns correctly and someone is shot. I think I'm more worried about ignorant people than crazy people... There is a lot of adult ignorance below, so where do we really focus our efforts?

Per Day In America

1,836 children are confirmed as abused or neglected.
65 babies die before their first birthdays.
21 children or teens die from accidents.
7 children or teens are killed by guns.
6 children or teens commit suicide.
4 children are killed by abuse or neglect.

originally posted by: Xtrozero
It is all horrible I say. When it comes to guns I think parents should have the law thrown at them if they do not secure their guns correctly and someone is shot. I think I'm more worried about ignorant people than crazy people... There is a lot of adult ignorance below, so where do we really focus our efforts?

Per Day In America

1,836 children are confirmed as abused or neglected.
65 babies die before their first birthdays.
21 children or teens die from accidents.
7 children or teens are killed by guns.
6 children or teens commit suicide.
4 children are killed by abuse or neglect.

WTF is the point? Those bad situations are BAD so guns aren't so bad? If I'm reading that right, I'm disgusted.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: UmbraSumus

I hate drunk drivers but driving is a privilege so I fail to see your point.

I thought I had made my point.

Rights must be balanced with reponsibilities.

a reply to: UmbraSumus

You're right, he shouldn't have.

But he didn't self report his paranoia, and nobody who knew him seems to have reported it either. So who was supposed to do what, exactly?

a reply to: UmbraSumus

I can agree with that but how can we tell when a sane person will snap?

originally posted by: intrepid

WTF is the point? Those bad situations are BAD so guns aren't so bad? If I'm reading that right, I'm disgusted.

You sure have a weird way of understanding a post. This is the second time you put some crazy red herring spin on one. I said..

There is a lot of adult ignorance below, so where do we really focus our efforts?

You can answer the question or not.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: UmbraSumus

I can agree with that but how can we tell when a sane person will snap?

I hear you - figuring out if/when someone will snap is real hit and miss. However, concerned loved ones and those who may be treating somebody displaying erratic behaviour are better placed to voice concern.

“He thought someone was out to get him...”

He was actually right...

Satan got him.

Young Emma Nowling on the other hand is probably now having the time of her life in Heaven.

Shooter with concealed carry permit and paranoid delusions?

Was probably an ATS member.

Take away the gun or the concealed carry permit in this case and you don't have a 7 year old dead kid.

Simple as that. Undeniable. Irrefutable.

originally posted by: Logman
Shooter with concealed carry permit and paranoid delusions?

Was probably an ATS member.

Take away the gun or the concealed carry permit in this case and you don't have a 7 year old dead kid.

Simple as that. Undeniable. Irrefutable.

Um are you serious? Sometimes I can't tell over the internet.

a reply to: Blackmarketeer

This is a real tragedy for those involved, and we should not over look that, or allow agendas to be the focus here. This sort of thing isn't common, and isn't a reason to assume no one should carry a gun. In this particular case, it seems those who knew that he was having problems should have seen to taking the gun, through some means. Of course, people might not have know he had it. There are restrictions on truly mentally ill people buying guns, so this seems to be something new. Maybe he was drugged. We don't know. I don't see this as a reason to jump on a bandwagon and have people go on about taking away guns, though.

Really feel for the families. No one should have to lose a child.

a reply to: intrepid

You still didn't answer the question. What solution do you have to the problem of mass shootings/gun violence? I mean, the anti gunners scream so often about us gun owners doing nothing, you'd think they had a workable solution, right?....................................................We're waiting.

originally posted by: Cobaltic1978
So someone showing signs of a mental illness was allowed to continue carrying a concealed weapon? What is the usual protocol under these circumstances? Surely if you are showing signs of mental illness then your licence should be revoked immediately?

Such a tragedy for the little girl and her family.

I can't help but laugh - here in the US - the answer is that the little girl and her mother should have been carrying guns of their own to protect themselves.

Nope - anyone should be able to own a gun in the US - the crazier the better.

On a more serious note - not their is no mechanism to 'check-up' on the mental health of 'gun owners'. No license to renew, no requirement that medical personnel inform authorities of acute or on-going mental health issues. If there were I doubt a lot of cops, and others with so-called legitimate work-related reasons to carry a gun, would be able to continue in their jobs. Paranoia is rampant in Law Enforcement.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Cobaltic1978

Problem is we can't and shouldn't punish people because of maybe.

We don't let blind people drive automobiles? Is that a punishment?