GOP blocks efforts to deny guns to those on terrorist watch lists

originally posted by: Willtell
The mentality of the American people has become childlike.

They want to do this, do that, stop this, stop that without making sacrifices.

The fact is we may have to sacrifice something to eliminate something else

It’s just the law of life. We teach it to children all the time but we grown ups won't practice it ourselves

American may have to sacrifice some of their rights to stop something.

The liberals may have to accept less privacy

The conservatives some gun rights

If you don’t do this these issues WILL NOT BE SOLVED

It’s just that simple

It's not that simple. I am willing to make all kinds of sacrifices. Do I trust Congress to decide what I should sacrifice?

No way.

Yes. I am going to be that person that says: FIX WHAT IS WRONG WITH CONGRESS AND ADDRESS CORRUPTION IN GOVERNMENT or I refuse to budge one more inch.

If current events were taking place under GWB, I would feel the exact same way. In fact, I loathe and decry The Patriot Act.

If current events were taking place under GWB, I would speculate that most liberals would not be cool with and trusting about today's events in Congress.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

originally posted by: Willtell
The mentality of the American people has become childlike.

They want to do this, do that, stop this, stop that without making sacrifices.

The fact is we may have to sacrifice something to eliminate something else

It’s just the law of life. We teach it to children all the time but we grown ups won't practice it ourselves

American may have to sacrifice some of their rights to stop something.

The liberals may have to accept less privacy

The conservatives some gun rights

If you don’t do this these issues WILL NOT BE SOLVED

It’s just that simple

It's not that simple. I am willing to make all kinds of sacrifices. Do I trust Congress to decide what I should sacrifice?

No way.

I’m talking philosophically. How sacrifices are done is another topic.

The fact that compromise and lack of trust is a problem is at the root of the very issue of stagnate government we have

But the fact remains if their is no sacrifice there will be no change in the problem

Like children everybody wants everything they want without compromise


I’m just detaining the problem

DP

originally posted by: Willtell
The fact that compromise and lack of trust is a problem is at the root of the very issue of stagnate government we have

TWO DIFFERENT PROBLEMS. One is not as legitimate as the other. Many people are willing to compromise...it's ok to ask for compromise and expect some.

No one has any right to ask me to trust Congress and/or the federal government and they are fools if they expect me to.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Wow...how did you find out?

I first learned I was under scrutiny when I had to fly for business back in 2004. I'm not on the main "no fly" list but I am definitely on watch lists, which adds layers of paperwork and waiting when I want to fly anywhere. I have a few military brat college buddies who have connections. They made some calls and then broke it down for me. Note that this was during W's tenure, not Obama's.

I WANT MY BOTTLE MOMMY


I WANT MY GUNS

I WANT MY FREEDOMS

I WANT MORE GUNS

I WANT BIGGER GUNS

I WANT MY SEX

I WANT MY DRUGS

I WANT MY RELIIGON

I DON’T WANT RELIIGON

ON AND ON AND ON ITS LIKE BEING IN A NURSEY

I WANT MY THIS

I WANT MY THAT


Look how we sound and what we have turned into

Grown children


and we wonder why nothing ever gets done

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Wow...how did you find out?

I first learned I was under scrutiny when I had to fly for business back in 2004. I'm not on the main "no fly" list but I am definitely on watch lists, which adds layers of paperwork and waiting when I want to fly anywhere. I have a few military brat college buddies who have connections. They made some calls and then broke it down for me. Note that this was during W's tenure, not Obama's.

Thanks for explaining.

It brings to mind another point -- how easy will it be for people to find they are 'the list.' And what will be the dispute process in place to assure you are not being deprived of a right?

a reply to: Willtell

Wow. That was ridiculous, Willtell.

People are not 'grown children' for asserting their rights to freedom, religion, guns....

Geezus.

ETA: If this is the way that 'your' side of the debate views the other...no wonder the opposing side is so d*mn relucutant to fork over their trust. I deserve more respect than this. I'm am 45 years old and I have witnessed too many horrific, inhuman decisions come out of Washington DC. I have VERY good reason to doubt Congress' sincerity, competency, ethics, and loyalty.

As I have stated, I have never owned a gun and never intend to. They make me nervous and I do think they are dangerous.

BUT, Congress makes me even more nervous and I think they are far, far more dangerous.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Willtell

Wow. That was ridiculous, Willtell.

People are not 'grown children' for asserting their rights to freedom, religion, guns....

Geezus.

Again I’m not referring this to you or about any one particular person or group it’s the general situation that so poisoned with immaturity, ignorance, selfishness and greed

It’s a law of life; sacrifice and compromise


That's what democracy is based on

Were going to loose it likely very soon one way or the other

You CAN’T always have everything you want in a shared environment

a reply to: MystikMushroom

Its potentially a problem in any case where its affecting various rights of US citizens. This topic, from six months ago, however, was about 2nd amendment rights in particular and I framed it in that context.

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Using a nickname on some documents is something you chose to do, of your own free will and accord. It was not an "accident" that you were put on that list.

Your case isn't a clerical error, which would be my main concern.

originally posted by: Willtell
You CAN’T always have everything you want in a shared environment

Well then give me accountability, oversight, and transparency in the federal government. Give me a formal investigation into the federal government because I think they have motive to orchestrate the recent rash of mass-shootings.

AND THEN I will compromise....some more.

MY TURN to ask for compromise! I've compromised enough. My. Turn. To. Ask.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Using a nickname on some documents is something you chose to do, of your own free will and accord. It was not an "accident" that you were put on that list.

Your case isn't a clerical error, which would be my main concern.

I had no idea using a nickname can earn you a spot a terrorist list. My sister is a 'Jennifer' who goes by 'Jenny.'

So...what the heck can we expect with this list? Is my 'Jenny' -- the gentle dentist and all-around sweetheart -- going to be on a terrorist list, at some point?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Teikiatsu

Using a nickname on some documents is something you chose to do, of your own free will and accord. It was not an "accident" that you were put on that list.

Your case isn't a clerical error, which would be my main concern.

My birth name is James. I prefer 'Jim' on non-official documents. Spare me the lecture.

Meanwhile, my vaccinations are due to OSHA and CDC regulations, even though I never come into contact with the organisms in question. The fact that I *could* come into contact with them is enough to demand the vaccination, if I want to keep my job... which then pays taxes to the federal government that suspects me of potential wrongdoing.

I'm pretty sure I posted this already in this thread, but again...people on the watchlist and no-fly lists can't fly but they can buy guns. And this makes sense in what world?

GUN CONTROL AND THE NO-FLY LIST: ALL YOU NEED TO KNOW

Also...





Anyway, filibuster is over. Vote tomorrow.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

but again...people on the watchlist and no-fly lists can't fly but they can buy guns. And this makes sense in what world?

Exactly what I've been saying.

The only way I would support this is if due process is incorporated into the bill and ONLY for a terrorist watch list. If all its takes to go onto a list is your name being brought up in an fbi investigation then there better be mechanisms in place to not only challenge the listing but the ability of the courts to be involved. I do not and will no support this for the no fly list since thats mired in controversy and people find it impossible to get their names removed.

To this day the no fly list is arbitrary, there is no mechanism to challenge it and a federal judge, when asking a government lawyer questions about the no fly list, basically said courts have no jurisdiction.

If this is not done correctly it is going to open Pandoras box on destroying the 2nd amendment.

What happens if you already own guns and your name comes up? Are police going to be sent to confiscate guns that were legally bought?

Whats the criteria used to get your name on watch list?

If your added to the list and its determined you arent involved in terrorist activities will your name automatically come off the list?

This move is dangerous and I fear the government will try to exploit the shooting to ram through legislation thats half baked.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Do they not keep saying that there is a process for clearing errors up and that this might at most delay a person from obtaining a weapon FOR A FEW DAYS?

Are people really in that much of a hurry, if by some slim chance they got on some list, that they can't sacrifice or wait a FEW DAYS?

originally posted by: ~Lucidity
a reply to: Xcathdra

Do they not keep saying that there is a process for clearing errors up and that this might at most delay a person from obtaining a weapon FOR A FEW DAYS?

Are people really in that much of a hurry, if by some slim chance they got on some list, that they can't sacrifice or wait a FEW DAYS?

What is the process?