Colorado Springs gunman. The writing on the wall.

a reply to: ketsuko

You may have missed the part where police said he set up gas tanks around the building and was intending to shoot them.

The official told CNN that propane tanks were found in the area of Dear's car in the parking lot, and that authorities believe he was trying to shoot them to cause an explosion. [Source]

So that might go towatd explaining why he was shooting outside.

originally posted by: theyknowwhoyouare

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Of all the acquaintances, friends of family, and local figures of interest I am aware of, the kind who I would expect to do something like this are people who live like Robert Dear.

- They all have this obsession with getting "off the grid" or already living that way.
- They fear the government and back conservative ideology.
- They are religious but not conventionally; they almost always have a theory as to how the other Christians "have it all wrong".
- A single passion that drives them and the signs are in their homes. Racist, religious, a specific conspiracy theory, etc.
- Guns. Lots of guns.
- Seclusion. Lots of seclusion.

And the handful I have known like this in life have all given me that vibe of a person who is going to snap someday.

The media doesn't need to tell me this.

You have been programmed the way you were meant to. Generalizing an association between antisocial behavior and mass murder is every bit as disgusting as labeling black people as gangbangers/thugs, islamic as terrorists, etc. There are people that just flat out snap, regardless of personality. This man murdered people, this man alone. He was a member of a specific subgroup of people, not the entirety of the group.

Next time a social butterfly kills a couple of people will we start regarding social folks as potential threats?

subjugating people due to their ideology is wrong. Thinking is not a crime

So vibe I personally get off of some of these people is programming? Do you even hear how you sound?

For the record, reclusive personality on its own or even the desire to live in solitude is not what I am talking about. That's just one part of the crazy recipe. That is why I provided a list. I used to live "off the grid" and I totally understand the appeal. Read what I wrote again, it is not a judgement on people who like to get away from it all (being extra sensitive to it myself, I totally get it).

a reply to: ketsuko

It clearly says to me they don't really know why he went off, but they want everyone to assume he was definitely attacking PP with no other motive in mind.

Where does this "conspiracy" keep coming from?

Many people have said "they" are trying to build a narrative around this man, but have yet to see anything of the sort.

What does appear to be true is that many people are knee-jerking in denial that this man may very well be a Right Wing nut. He may not. We don't know.

But the fact is that many more people are fighting against such a possibility than are pushing for that possibility. Why is that?

I think the Right Wing is a bit scared at the moment because of the possibility this shooter was a Right Wing nut.

I see your point OP but c'mon. Sometimes perhaps they are simply telling it like it is?

Riddle me this. Say all of those statements about the shooter are 100% correct, do you expect the media to leave out those things? I mean that is kind of as bad as focusing on them.

Another point, this dude was not your normal ATSer, or your normal person with distrust of government even. He lived in a cabin, and then in a trailer in desolate areas both without having electeicity or plumbing. Does that apply to most here? No. People that far off grid are actually pretty damn rare and i would say have skill sets making them more dangerous than your average joe.

Idk, i am all for preparedness. But some people who live like this man did for so long just become far gone so to speak.

What i am saying, we at ATS need not fear a witch hunt quite yet. Keep in mind national media is trying to make stories out of tiny details in this case amd about this man much more necesarry for click bait and views. Locally, i have yet to see them making any huge fuss about how this man lived. Comments sure. Not suggesting round ups.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

I'm a recluse with anxiety and avoids eye contact-I might be on the most wanted list but I'm not wanted

It seems that everyone in the media is an armchair criminal psychologist (I blame CSI.) IMO not all cases can be cut and paste, after all Bundy and Gacy were once pillars of the community.

But then again I have been quick to judge and maybe not all behaviors are determined as 'normal' and I'd have to ask a family member who is qualified, although I'm dread the inevitable Rorschach test.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

You are correct, and I will be living off the land far away from the general population before shtf.

I've got all my eyes on what's unfolding and want no part in anyone else's ideologies for the world.

originally posted by: introvert

What you are doing here is trying to preempt the potential backlash against anti-abortion, Christian conservatives in case it comes out this man was a Right Wing nut.

Shouldn't you guys and your media be out in force telling everyone to lay off the pro-lifers and Christians and not to blame them because one nut job shot people? That's what you would be doing if he were a Muslim, right?

originally posted by: introvert


I think the Right Wing is a bit scared at the moment because of the possibility this shooter was a Right Wing nut.

Several of these shooters have been left wing nuts and I find it very curious that it's never an issue with the usual suspects. It seems all talk of their political affiliations disappear the second the truth comes out.

originally posted by: Abysha
a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

Of all the acquaintances, friends of family, and local figures of interest I am aware of, the kind who I would expect to do something like this are people who live like Robert Dear.

- They all have this obsession with getting "off the grid" or already living that way.
- They fear the government and back conservative ideology.
- They are religious but not conventionally; they almost always have a theory as to how the other Christians "have it all wrong".
- A single passion that drives them and the signs are in their homes. Racist, religious, a specific conspiracy theory, etc.
- Guns. Lots of guns.
- Seclusion. Lots of seclusion.

And the handful I have known like this in life have all given me that vibe of a person who is going to snap someday.

The media doesn't need to tell me this.

But much of what you list is exactly what the government watches. The Blaze list


166 Page very Vague US Govt 'Watchlisting Guidance'

They are watching these very things and we know the media gets some hints, at the very least, as to what to mention or repeat.

Change a few words in what you listed and remove the word guns and you have something that very closely describes me. You will be describing a lot of people here with small changes to that.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare

S&F. This does really concern me. And I don't think it's about guns, Obama hasn't done much about guns and at one point the NRA gave him an 'A' rating. It will be a slow erosion of freedoms and certain people will be first.

a reply to: introvert

The fact that I have been searching for an official motive and every article I find has none and admits there is none, but then goes on and on and on about how he was clearly attacking the clinic and only the clinic.

This is like the narrative built around the "gentle giant" in Ferguson that was also revealed to not be exactly what occurred.

But, no, of course there is no propaganda, no agenda, no attempt to sway public opinion on this or any other story. Can we move on to the next Big Lie now?

a reply to: TheBulk

Several of these shooters have been left wing nuts

As a student of extremism I am interested in finding more about these leftwing mass murderers so that I can compare them and their paranoia's. Can you please provide a list ? A short list?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: introvert

The fact that I have been searching for an official motive and every article I find has none and admits there is none, but then goes on and on and on about how he was clearly attacking the clinic and only the clinic.

This is like the narrative built around the "gentle giant" in Ferguson that was also revealed to not be exactly what occurred.

But, no, of course there is no propaganda, no agenda, no attempt to sway public opinion on this or any other story. Can we move on to the next Big Lie now?

They do have him saying something about 'baby parts'. But I find it very concerning that they seem to be throwing in 'fear of government'. If one doesn't have a little fear of the government that is a problem.

a reply to: theyknowwhoyouare
There are 1.5 million names on the terror watchlist comprised of US citizens. Government agencies and private citizens can 'nominate' someone to be on the list. 98.96 of all nominations are accepted and placed on it. source

This makes 'see something, say something' mean a lot more, I think.

10 Things that get you on the Terror Watchlist
From Keeping 7 days of food to being a Tea Party activist or an Occupy activist to paying cash at hotels...yes they are on the list.


25 FBI flyers given to businesses

I am screwed. I use cash mainly and paypal debit card sometimes. My aunt is well-off (and a nice aunt) and she will often drop me at the mall with her department store credit card if I need new work clothes or a holiday outfit. She has paid for my broken furnace and bought me appliances on sale at Home Depot. All by handing me a card with her name on it. That seems to be the #1 concern on these flyers, using a credit card in someone else's name.

a reply to: reldra

OK, they have that, but if they felt there was enough to make it an official motive, don't you think they would have released that by now?

In every other incident where an abortion clinic or provider was clearly targeted, they release that information. And, he may have had propane tanks in his car, but where was his car? If it wasn't right in front of the clinic, then that's no clear evidence of anything other than someone looking to cause mayhem.

They are also on record as having said that the shooter has said a lot of things. What happened to that bit of information? Scrubbed from the record because it doesn't fit the preferred narrative?

a reply to: TonyS

You're kidding, right? #sarcasm? Gosh, I hope you're kidding.

Mandatory mental health screening is a terrifying fascist control implement. For one thing, it's up to the "professionals" to decide if your personal state of mental health is up to their standards and that could so easily be manipulated to destroy lives and liberty. Blacklists, obligatory pharmaceutical prescriptions, children removed from homes, ostracization, job loss are only a few likely outcomes of such a regime.

And the proximate liability is so 1984-ish, I got chills when I read that. I understand why you might differ in opinion to the OP, but we canNOT go to these kinds of dangerous extremes. Liberty is so vital and it's already in so much jeopardy.

originally posted by: introvert

originally posted by: NthOther


If that turns out to be true, you damn well better believe we are going to hold their feet to the fire. Not because they had anything to do with the shootings, but because they perpetuate and support extremist propaganda.

The Right Wing brainwashes people and there is a good chance this man was a product of it.

We will have to wait and see.

So based on your statement I can hold you responsible for killing baby's and selling their body parts

Because you perpetuate the support of baby killers making a quick buck on children's body parts

He sounds, to me, like he is mentally ill. Probably some sort of schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder.

But, when heavily edited anti-abortion propaganda is blasted all over the news for months on end, this can happen.

Just my two cents, doesn't excuse what he did though...Hope they throw the jail on top of him.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: introvert

The fact that I have been searching for an official motive and every article I find has none and admits there is none, but then goes on and on and on about how he was clearly attacking the clinic and only the clinic.

This is like the narrative built around the "gentle giant" in Ferguson that was also revealed to not be exactly what occurred.

But, no, of course there is no propaganda, no agenda, no attempt to sway public opinion on this or any other story. Can we move on to the next Big Lie now?

They haven't reported the motive yet...That will probably not come out until after the GJ/formal charges in court are brought up. He hasn't even been to court yet, so it will probably be a little bit, if they even release his motive.

IMHO, he is nuts and his motive is sort of moot.

a reply to: TheBulk

Shouldn't you guys and your media be out in force telling everyone to lay off the pro-lifers and Christians and not to blame them because one nut job shot people? That's what you would be doing if he were a Muslim, right?

I will be willing to say that if this man does turn out to be Christian. Right now religion is not and should not be a focus.

Several of these shooters have been left wing nuts

Please provide names and incidents.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: introvert

The fact that I have been searching for an official motive and every article I find has none and admits there is none, but then goes on and on and on about how he was clearly attacking the clinic and only the clinic.

This is like the narrative built around the "gentle giant" in Ferguson that was also revealed to not be exactly what occurred.

But, no, of course there is no propaganda, no agenda, no attempt to sway public opinion on this or any other story. Can we move on to the next Big Lie now?

Every article?

I don't doubt there are many opinion pieces out there saying exactly what you describe, but hyperbole and opinion is not proof of an agenda or nefarious plot to change public opinion.

There is a difference between misguided opinion and outright propaganda.