The Obvious Strategy of The Islamic State Is Working, You’re All Being Stupid

a reply to: masqua

I agree, religion is definitely playing a central role in what is occurring right now with ISIS.

a reply to: UnBreakable

Religion may have been a significant role in Stalin's early life, but it had nothing to do with him suppressing political dissent by subjugating his people and leaving those who didn't conform to die in gulags.

The point is politics plays the same role as religion in many cases and people will always find an excuse to justify their actions. Pick your poison.

a reply to: marg6043

I will not directly call them stupid but more like caught up in the heat of the moment.

I get that a lot of people were insulted by that. Did you think it was politically incorrect to say that out loud - directed at an entire group of people?

See - this is where all this gets interesting :-)

...is a lot of hate going around right now, I am not going to let it get to me, because is counterproductive.

It is. Bottom line - that's why this thread

Be well, I am sure things will calm down soon enough.

Same to you Marg - and I really hope you're right

a reply to: Konduit

Don't worry man. He did the same thing to me in one of my responses. He doesn't look at what you're responding to. He only reads what he can cherry pick and rip apart.

I saw where you were coming from and what you were responding to. Your argument is sound. It's not measured by who killed how many. It's an example of how it's not always about religion, no matter how people want to spin it. Warmongers will use whatever title or label they feel like just to justify their ends and means. Just like the topic at hand where murderers use the muslim faith to justify their works. I imagined that since we're so civil this day and age, we wouldn't have this kind of caveman thinking.

ETA: It blows my mind how we're so advanced now days, but in come cultures and places we're not necessarily civilized. There are still prehistoric ways of life still active in this world of lights, electricity and computers.

we here in the western countries should just sing "Kumbaya", praise love and peace, and everything will be ok....there, I was about as positive as I can stomach.

originally posted by: jimmyx
we here in the western countries should just sing "Kumbaya", praise love and peace, and everything will be ok....there, I was about as positive as I can stomach.

Well as an old time metal head how about singing Creeping Death, head bang and leave the rest alone? I'm down for that.

originally posted by: Tyrion79
a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree and thank you for further explanation on this.
Although hatred can be taught or inflicted as your example has shown, it still isn't human nature to hate, kill or otherwise harm others, unless provoked by the aforementioned.

Correct. Normal human psychology is not geared toward violence in general, and violence against humans in particular. A child can experience trauma on his first hunt, as the taking of an animals life is not as calm as they had imagined. Its a loud and tempestuous event that takes some working on to be ok with. Humans in war suffer PTSD that can ruin them (and their children via the tendency of trauma to be passed down via epigenetic markers, along with the regular psychology). Humanity is not made for violence. There is the 3% of humanity that is psychopathic....so it doesn't surprise me that in a society of 1.5 billion people, you can put 15k psychopaths together.

Great thread, by the way (although immature title) I agree that all Muslims shouldn't be put in the bad file. When people say they have Muslim friends etc. so do I. I also have met many people; Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Who associate with the religion just because they want to have something to say when asked, and most likely that is the religion of their family. But, are the christians and Catholics actually going to church and worshiping regularly other then on Easter? Are the so-called Muslims worshiping in a mosque. Do your Muslim friends actually worship in a mosque ,bow down, knees on the ground forhead on the ground?

My Family used to vacation and hang out with my stepdad's friend and his family. This man was from Lebanon, owned a few big businesses over there, but lived full time in California. He had been raised Muslim, and of course his extended family was Muslim, even the ones that also lived in California. He would fly back to Lebanon every 3 months for his businesses. He even had some obligatory ties to Hesballeh. He said they were kind of like the mob over there, in charge by force, but also well loved by some of the community for dunding a hospital to be built and other charitable deeds. He knew he had to feign being a Muslim when he visited there, but said he would never really want to be one, he considered himself Christian. He said people didn't know what devout Muslims were really like, and it is a bad religion. That was coming from someone who really knows that community. I also know Muslims who aren't bad, but that's because they aren't true Muslims.

a reply to: 222mockingbirdlane

Still, that was his experience in that particular part of the world.
Doesn't have to mean that everywhere else is the same.
I went to Turkey in 2006 on a vacation, spend alot of time talking to the locals there.
It's a very modern country and they had a strict policy of seperating the state and the Islam, however I'm not sure where Erdogan is going now with his conservative policies.
As I was told then, Atatürk had reformed the country early in the 20th century to the republic it is today, which the Turks still take alot of pride in.

a reply to: StallionDuck

Did I walk into a weird loop hole?

No. You created one. You need to back off, quit demanding that others focus on you and your points, and recognize that you do not understand SO's directive. So take a deep breath, clear your mind and try to think.

The issue at hand is hate and fear, specifically, the hate being directed against Muslims and the fear of Muslims that's being artificially generated. The comparison to Christians is a relatively minor incidental. The MSM is not pushing people to hate and fear Christians. The MSM is pushing people to hate and fear Muslims - that's what SO is warning against.

a reply to: 222mockingbirdlane

He said people didn't know what devout Muslims were really like, and it is a bad religion. That was coming from someone who really knows that community. I also know Muslims who aren't bad, but that's because they aren't true Muslims.

I think you're confusing things here. Just imagine for a second the Islam would be the 'civilized' First World and we would be somewhere in the Second or Third, but with lot's of oil.

You think we won't see Christian Orders fighting against oppression and the War on Terror, eventually with means of terror?

Afghanistan was a civilized and modern society before the CIA meddled with their issues. Destabilisation results in a loss of culture and leads straight to the erosion of societies to the point of plain barbarism, which is precisely what we've got now there.
How can we take all of this into equasion? Maybe you and your friends rather see the consequences of our lifestyle at work, but think it's just their fault/ culture/ religion and hence their problem?

Now take a quick look here for a second opinion and some context:

The Qur`an also deals with relationships of the Muslims with the non-believers at the individual and collective levels. Unfortunately, many non-believers showed much hatred and enmity towards Islam and Muslims, throwing Muslims out of their homes (3:195), or making fun of their prayer and religion generally (5:57-58), and either waging war or kindling the flames of war between Muslims and some other non-believers (5:64) or by other subversive devices (3:72). Although at an individual level Muslims can have even such intimate relationship as that of marriage with those non-believers who are truly monotheists (5:5, 2:221, 5:72), Muslims are advised not to take hostile non-believers as allies against the purposes of Islam and the collective interests of the Muslim community (5:51, 57). Those non-believers who are not hostile are explicitly exempted from this advice (60:8) and even in case of hostile non-believers the Qur`an holds forth the hope that hostility will some day change to love: “It may be that God will generate love between you and those of them with whom you are now at enmity. God is capable (of all things); God is forgiving and merciful” (60:7).

www.islamicperspectives.com...

Sounds New Testament_ish enough for me.

Unfortunately, there are very few verses of tolerance and peace to abrogate or even balance out the many that call for nonbelievers to be fought and subdued until they either accept humiliation, convert to Islam, or are killed.

You didn't even mention one peacefull part to put things into perspective, nor did you provide us with a source for your rant (the other one on P.29).
Sorry to be a bit Dick Cheney about this, just saying...

And yeah, I do this 'cause I'm a believer (Protestant) and I like open, but fair debates regarding this topic. Now please, let's just be honest about this. We wouldn't kill every sourceress either, would we?

I guess if you equate the dislike of muslim jihadist to that of all muslims then it would compel one to call the whole world stupid.

If the racist in chief would have done his job yrs ago this would not be an issue but I suppose it is just a coincidence that he makes all the wrong moves for us but always seems not to effect those muslim jihadist.

We can put the issue right up there with net neutrality. meaning that it has been that long since we were all called stupid.

originally posted by: 222mockingbirdlane
Great thread, by the way (although immature title) I agree that all Muslims shouldn't be put in the bad file. When people say they have Muslim friends etc. so do I. I also have met many people; Muslim, Christian, Catholic, Who associate with the religion just because they want to have something to say when asked, and most likely that is the religion of their family. But, are the christians and Catholics actually going to church and worshiping regularly other then on Easter? Are the so-called Muslims worshiping in a mosque. Do your Muslim friends actually worship in a mosque ,bow down, knees on the ground forhead on the ground?

My Family used to vacation and hang out with my stepdad's friend and his family. This man was from Lebanon, owned a few big businesses over there, but lived full time in California. He had been raised Muslim, and of course his extended family was Muslim, even the ones that also lived in California. He would fly back to Lebanon every 3 months for his businesses. He even had some obligatory ties to Hesballeh. He said they were kind of like the mob over there, in charge by force, but also well loved by some of the community for dunding a hospital to be built and other charitable deeds. He knew he had to feign being a Muslim when he visited there, but said he would never really want to be one, he considered himself Christian. He said people didn't know what devout Muslims were really like, and it is a bad religion. That was coming from someone who really knows that community. I also know Muslims who aren't bad, but that's because they aren't true Muslims.

Why do you list Catholics as separate from Christians? As far as I know Catholic is a sect of Christianity like Protestants, Episcopalians, Baptists, etc. They do perform different rituals during religious ceremonies such as kneeling, receiving communion, etc. but still follow Christ. Just wondering.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
I guess if you equate the dislike of muslim jihadist to that of all muslims then it would compel one to call the whole world stupid.

If the racist in chief would have done his job yrs ago this would not be an issue but I suppose it is just a coincidence that he makes all the wrong moves for us but always seems not to effect those muslim jihadist.

We can put the issue right up there with net neutrality. meaning that it has been that long since we were all called stupid.

Will bypass the racist in chief bit, how about not doing the second Iraq war based on a lie, how about threading real carefully before toppling tinpan dictators sitting on a hornets nest.

In an emotional note on Facebook titled “You will not have my hatred”, Leiris wrote: “On Friday evening you stole the life of an exceptional person, the love of my life, the mother of my son, but you will not have my hatred.

“I don’t know who you are and I don’t want to know, you are dead souls. If this God for whom you kill blindly made us in his image, every bullet in the body of my wife is a wound in his heart.

“So no, I will not give you the satisfaction of hating you. You want it, but to respond to hatred with anger would be to give in to the same ignorance that made you what you are.”

Bataclan victim's husband tells killers: 'You will not have my hatred'



True greatness.

a reply to: Spider879
He earned that title.

I agree no war but that is not dependent on the personal battle that dems and repubs keep playing over a name.

it is the name that the terrorist choose. the I stands for islam

even the racist in chief called them dash a couple times while chastising everyone for calling them muslim or islam but that was really calling them muslim terrorist.

let us be clear there is not any hate for muslims more today then there was a year ago.

as always and steadly repubs call them Islamic terrorist the dems call them lone wolfs... and isis calls themselves islam


what is even more strange of all is the only people that are saying not to call them muslim terrorist are usually not muslim themselves.

originally posted by: Benevolent HereticThe hatred, judgment, homophobia, sexism, racism, religionism and just random nastiness here makes me ask what I'm doing here. I don't belong here any more.

This.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

That was amazing.

a reply to: ~Lucidity

I remember yrs ago it used to be pics or it did not happen but now all it takes is a claim and we are all bigots,racist and haters.

If some one tells us that there is more hate here then it must be true.

originally posted by: ~Lucidity

originally posted by: Benevolent HereticThe hatred, judgment, homophobia, sexism, racism, religionism and just random nastiness here makes me ask what I'm doing here. I don't belong here any more.

This.

More the reason to stay and educate the ignorant and give a voice to reason.
If all the sensible people leave, what will be left here on ATS?
It would be another victory for the ones who wish to divide and conquer.