Third Temple / Ark of the Covenant

Now I know why you guys have only a tiny little plot of land.

We get what G-d gave us.

Well you can't worship him then. You'd have to be quiet and not play an instrument.

Not true. People don't always outwardly worship.

My dear, I know chapter 45 all too well.

Obviously you don't or you wouldn't have picked and chosen so precipitously.

The key phrase in vs 19 is "in those days" or future tense. Now, in what we call Egypt, there is going to be an altar.

Doesn't mean it's for the Jews. It's about Egypt and Egyptians being treated the same as the Jews.

no, he's talking about heavan. He covers himself with dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. 2 sam 22. This is a literal description. Either way, clouds or water or both, they're dark.

Well considering you don't read Hebrew, your point is invalid. It's thick darkness. 2 Samuel 22 is a song. Notice the first verse, "David addressed the words of this song to the L-rd." Again, David's description.

Keep looking.

No need to.

His spirit is everywhere. The problem you have is that you cannot find his body.

G-d doesn't have a body.

This is blind zeal.

In your opinion maybe. In mine, is shows Jewish unity.

This is paper and words. Idolotrous.

It's not worshipped so it's not idolatrous.

This is where the filthy Herodian temple was. Not Solomon's.

Both were in the same place.

Oh I forgot, the mountain Zion instead of the city Zion. You're pathetic.

I'm sorry that you are angry that I can read and comprehend and you cannot. It must be hard going through life as a functional illiterate. I'm just assuming that you're functional though and that was also being nice on my part. But you need not be calling anyone pathetic without first looking at yourself. You would hate to be the pot calling the kettle black right 'Stephe?'

I know exactly where Moriah is.

Me too.

Originally posted by banjo_guru

Originally posted by djohnsto77
Would the Ark of the Covenant need to be recovered to truly complete the temple and fulfill prophesy?

They do not really need anything but the altar to get things moving.
In order to begin building the altar, they need the Ark,containing the remaining ashes of the red heifer, to be able to ritually 'cleanse' .
Banjo

really???

i thought that the 'Sanhedrin' would have to 'purify' the future Temples location, as there must be a bevy of rituals+requirements to be performed
before an Alter could be installed.
=> Additionally-> here's a secret! for those who have the gift of Discerning....A Temple, was anciently, An Open Place Without a Roof,
whose Walls served only to Shut-Out-the-World & direct the mind toward the heavens!!!
.........

anyhow, here's an article The End of Days: fundamentalism and the Struggle for the Temple Mount....found here

excerpt:

...As you probably know there hasn't been a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem since 70AD, when the Romans, under Titus, burnt down the one built by Herod.
The territory atop Mt. Moriah is currently occupied by a holy Muslim site, the al-Asqa mosque.
However, there is a sizable group of people who view the events of the 20th century as prologue to the construction of the third Jewish Temple on that site, not all of these people are in Israel and, as this book indicates,
most of them aren't Jewish.

(then at bottom of article we find this nuggett...)

...When zealots feel they know the mind of G-d and can force His hand,
they might end up with a lot more than they bargained for.
What a shock ( ( recall the neo-cons Shock-&-Awe: sorry, i had to insert this ironic twist) )
if at the Great White Throne Judgement, those who sincerely believed that they were establishing G-d's kingdom here on earth find out they were actually working for the other side.

*lotsa links throughout the article, & 'further reading' suggestions at bottom.
+ edited for mis-spelled words, sorry

[edit on 12-6-2005 by St Udio]

really???

i thought that the 'Sanhedrin' would have to 'purify' the future Temples location, as there must be a bevy of rituals+requirements to be performed
before an Alter could be installed.

There will be since all have come in contact with death and there is no one who is spiritually pure, which has to happen first.

the ark of the covenant

i pondered once about the fact that any army of the world to have the ark could not loose a battle.

i pondered once about what could ensure a battle would never be lost with an army that owned the ark.

i pondered once what could the ark be if it could ensure a battle was never lost.

a small box .....

perhaps if a battle began to go bad, say the force that owned the ark was blind sided or flanked too quickly ......

perhaps the ark is a time machine big enough to send a message back to the owner of the ark in any time in the past, but the ark itself originated in the future.

perhaps there are other possibilities to consider.

but if the ark itself were broken in some fashion, then when used again, would the entire ark travel back in time?

perhaps that would be the explanation of why there is more than one at this time.

properly use requires following the instruction manual, written by us, for us, to us, but by whose authority?

Originally posted by Shonet1430
I didn't say the Christians did or didn't....

Much ado about nothing. Meanwhile I still await your answers to:

I am at a loss as to why you even mention the Tanakh when it comes to Herod.

The relevant passages requiring three exiles before the 3rd and final temple is rebuilt, I must have missed those.

is it not also true that the authoritative information on all aspect of the temple during the 1st century ACE, comes to us from Josephus?

The two books (of Maccabees) were removed because?

Zerubbabel’s temple also lacked the ark, did it not?

Why would you expect the Tanakh to mention Herod?

Zerubbabel’s was a new temple because of a new foundation, according to you, why then was Herod’s not?

Your response to their being two schools of thought as to both Zeruabbabel’s and Herod’s temple being the second, and why, the other is not considered.

I really don't care how many times you tell us that you are a Jewish convert, or speak of your people, all I want are the straight answers.

Can I expect those anytime soon?

Originally posted by Shonet1430The Lord spoke to Moses, saying: Command the children of Israel and say to them, When you arrive in the land of Canaan, this is the land which shall fall to you as an inheritance, the land of Canaan according to its borders. Your southernmost corner shall be from the desert of Zin along Edom, and the southern border shall be from the edge of the Sea of Salt [the Dead Sea] to the east....

After reading the posts following yours to which I responded, I have only two more words to say to you at this time, for I am sure your search engines will be revving at maximum speed:

The Siwa Oasis.

Much ado about nothing. Meanwhile I still await your answers to:

I'm sorry, I didn't realize what kind of person I was dealing with. I'll try my best to make it easier for you to read.

I am at a loss as to why you even mention the Tanakh when it comes to Herod.

Answered twice before (all mention of previous answers are less the last reply which recapped all that had been previously said)

posted on 6/6/2005 at 11:13 AM Post Number: 1438144 (post id: 1460037) "because of prophecy"
and
posted on 6/7/2005 at 10:42 PM Post Number: 1442133 (post id: 1464026) "because of prophecy."

To reply to your statement, there was no prophecy relating to the temple of Herod therefore, I mentioned the Tanakh because I would expect to see a prophecy for it there.

The relevant passages requiring three exiles before the 3rd and final temple is rebuilt, I must have missed those.

Answered one times before.

posted on 6/6/2005 at 11:14 AM Post Number: 1438146 (post id: 1460039)
Never did I say that they are required.

So to reply to your statement, no one other than you has said that exiles are "required" in order for the temple to be rebuilt. You missed the ones that I said because I did not say them.

is it not also true that the authoritative information on all aspect of the temple during the 1st century ACE, comes to us from Josephus?

Answered once before.

posted on 6/7/2005 at 10:42 PM Post Number: 1442133 (post id: 1464026)
The particular information that we were discussing that I was dismissing would be considered hearsay in a court of law. He was not there during either Antiochus nor Pompey.

To answer your question, no. His writings were tampered with and embellished. The tampering by Christians and the embellishment by Josephus himself admittedly. Because of those two factors, authority sort of flies out the window.

The two books (of Maccabees) were removed because?

Answered once before.

posted on 6/7/2005 at 10:42 PM Post Number: 1442133 (post id: 1464026)
Those two books ... didn't meet the requirements. It had to be written in Hebrew in Palestine before 400 BCE and conform to the Torah.

Maccabees was a part of some books that did not get canonized because it didn't meet certain requirements of the council. The council required that the books be written in Hebrew and be dated to 400 BCE. The final requirement was that it had to be consistent with the Torah and the beliefs within the Torah. The prophets had to contain prophecies of an enduring nature. Does Maccabees fall into those three classifications? No. That would be why the books among others were excluded.

Zerubbabel’s temple also lacked the ark, did it not?

Answered once before.

posted on 6/7/2005 at 10:42 PM Post Number: 1442133 (post id: 1464026)
Also? Solomon's had the ark. Zerubbabel's never did like I said.

I'm not sure how much more plain I can get here. Solomon's temple contained the Ark, once upon a time. Zerubbabel's never did. Therefore, the answer to your question is no. Zerubbabel's did not contain the ark, period not also.

Why would you expect the Tanakh to mention Herod?

Repeating yourself. See above for the answer.

Zerubbabel’s was a new temple because of a new foundation, according to you, why then was Herod’s not?

Answered six times.

posted on 6/7/2005 at 10:42 PM Post Number: 1442133 (post id: 1464026)
The rebuild by Herod is still the second temple. Herod refurbished it and even made additions to it.
posted on 5/31/2005 at 08:29 AM Post Number: 1422135 (post id: 1444028)
Herod made extensive repairs and also remodeled, thus he rebuilt.
posted on 6/2/2005 at 10:26 AM Post Number: 1428075 (post id: 1449968)
Titus ordered the destruction of the Temple, the second temple that had some new architectural elements thanks to Herod but was still religiously Zerubbabel's.
posted on 6/2/2005 at 10:26 AM Post Number: 1428075 (post id: 1449968)
Herod remodeled, built again the splendor of Solomon and mended.
posted on 6/6/2005 at 11:13 AM Post Number: 1438144 (post id: 1460037)
Surely in Haggai 1.8, G-d isn't talking to Herod. Go up to the hills and get timber, and rebuilt the House; then I will look on it with favor and I will be glorified -- said the L-rd. So there couldn't be any discrepancy on whose is the second, right? Also Chanukah is a festival marking the Maccabees restoring the second temple. This happened long before Herod.
posted on 6/7/2005 at 10:42 PM Post Number: 1442133 (post id: 1464026)
...Herod shows that the Temple remains by way of Josephus,...Our fathers, indeed, when they were returned from Babylon, built this temple to God Almighty...for they were afraid that he would pull down the whole edifice,...the king encouraged them, and told them he would not pull down their temple till all things were gotten ready for building it up entirely again. ...

To sum up everything. Josephus says that the temple was still standing during Herod. If indeed it was rebuilt from the ground up, then Herod tore it down as shown above which means that Zerubbabel's was still standing. I have stated time and again that Herod remodeled, did extensive repair work, etc.

Your response to their being two schools of thought as to both Zeruabbabel’s and Herod’s temple being the second, and why, the other is not considered.

Answered once before. The original question to me was....But is it not so that there are two schools of thought on which of Zerubbabel’s and Herod’s temples is the second? Yet, the words supposedly uttered by God as shown above clearly differentiate one as the former and the other as the latter.

To which I replied...posted on 6/6/2005 at 11:13 AM Post Number: 1438144 (post id: 1460037)
Surely in Haggai 1.8, G-d isn't talking to Herod. Go up to the hills and get timber, and rebuilt the House; then I will look on it with favor and I will be glorified -- said the L-rd. So there couldn't be any discrepancy on whose is the second, right? Also Chanukah is a festival marking the Maccabees restoring the second temple. This happened long before Herod.

If Haggai 1.8 is showing the command to go and rebuild the house, it can't be to Herod as the events in Haggai didn't happen during the time of Herod. Therefore, there is no discrepancy on whose is the second. As also stated above, the Maccabees restored the second temple which is celebrated every year by us as Chanukah. This happened long before Herod to. So again, no discrepancy. That would show why Herod's would not be considered as the second as there are events preceding him referring to the second.

I really don't care how many times you tell us that you are a Jewish convert, or speak of your people, all I want are the straight answers.

You have gotten straight answers and many times over. Could you show me where I said that I'm a Jewish convert? Never once has that been said so this shows me that you do not fully read nor pay attention. Why has that not been said? Because I'm not.

Can I expect those anytime soon?

They have been given again and again and now again. Can I expect you to actually read a full response anytime soon?

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
After reading the posts following yours to which I responded, I have only two more words to say to you at this time, for I am sure your search engines will be revving at maximum speed:

The Siwa Oasis.

virtual hug.

Read this .....
quote///
As parades filled the streets of Jerusalem Monday - Jerusalem Day - the reestablished Sanhedrin convened in the city to elect a Nassi and representatives to lead it.


The current format of the Sanhedrin is an attempt to renew the historic Sanhedrin, Judaism's highest legal-religious tribunal during Holy Temple times. The 71-man assembly convened in one of the Holy Temple chambers, and existed from several decades before the Common Era until roughly 425 C.E. The renewed body was launched last year in Tiberias, now convenes in Jerusalem, and is still struggling to gain wide acceptance and legitimacy in the Torah world.

Since its launching last October in Tiberias, where it last convened 1,600 years ago, it has met in Jerusalem on a monthly basis.
www.israelnationalnews.com...

And this....
quote///
Kabbalist Blesses Jones: Now´s the Time to Find Holy Lost Ark
14:03 May 20, '05 / 11 Iyar 5765

An unnamed Kabbalist has granted blessing to famed archeologist Dr. Vendyl Jones to uncover the Holy Ark of the Covenant. Jones plans to excavate the Lost Ark by the Tisha B’Av Fast this summer.


The famed archaeologist, the inspiration for the “Indiana Jones” movie series, has spent most of his life searching for the Ark of the Covenant. The ark was the resting place of the Ten Commandments, given to the Jewish people at Mount Sinai, and was hidden just before the destruction of the First Temple.

www.israelnationalnews.com...

Also........
quote///
an. 25, 2005 0:28 | Updated Jan. 25, 2005 2:06
US politician hopes to speed building of third temple

"The temple is part of our history," Benny-Davis, who sponsored the festivities, told The Jerusalem Post. "When I argue with people who criticize us that we are occupying another nation, I explain to them that the land has been ours for thousands of years. Just look at the Temple Mount."

The Jews, she says, deserve a temple just like the Christians and the Muslims.
MORE......
www.jpost.com.../JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1106537800119

IX
helen

[edit on 6/26/2005 by helen670]

Last I found was they were not sure of the exact location of the original Temple. And its present remains's been marked as a general area only. As apparent Temple measurements don't coincide within the geographical area.

Dallas

Originally posted by CyrusTheShepherd

The antichrist will even build his own palace right at the base of Mt. Zion on the east side, between the 2 pools(seas). Now THAT’S audacious!


Footprint


[edit on 8-6-2005 by CyrusTheShepherd]

I'm not even sure that the temple construction 'attempt' has to be made on Moriah.
There is a teaching in American circles today that the nation can be re-established by starting again at Gilgal as Joshua first did, and as Samuel in the passage here.
The Sanhedrin has been re-established, red heifers are being bred, artifacts needed for the 3rd temple are being made too, but offering sacrifices requires only an altar, and that's all that will be needed for the anti-messiah to create the 'abomination'
Banjo Guru





1Sa 11:14 Then said Samuel to the people, Come, and let us go to Gilgal, and renew the kingdom there.

Originally posted by Dallas

One of the only Great questions so far on this thread..

As far as what I have learned there are a few arks three of which are under the Knights Templar's worship sight - at Roslyn Chapel - Scotland.
The Other is guarded 24/7 in Ethopia by a Monk in a special Monestary.

The original (perhaps others too) is/was a giant capacitor and yes could certainly kill anyone who touched the two wings on top.

To add my own personal twist, I think the great Pyramid (Kings Chamber)was used as a recharge station for the Pharo-version of the same 'lichen' jar capacitor as Mose's Ark of the Covenant.

Dallas

Wow, some imagination!
But since this is, by your own admission, conjecture;
First of all, there is only one ark of the covenant.
Then let's ask ourselves this;
1) Why would God need a capacitor? As an electonic engineer, I can say that
it takes a bit more than a capacitor to build a communication device, if
that is what you theorize it is.
2) Why would God see the need to place the tablets of stone, Aaron's rod,
and the ashes of the red heifer inside a capacitor?

Whattayathink?
Banjo Guru

Originally posted by BadMojo
Ok, ok...yes there are those that have touched the Ark, but no one has done so and LIVED...

I don't believe this would happen today, if it were found. God's no longer resides in the Ark of the Covenant, which was why those who touched the Ark were smitten...and don't mean "fell in love"

[edit on 31-5-2005 by BadMojo]

Hmmm, Ok so you are saying that this is not the same God as the Hebrews worshipped? If he treated man differently today than in those days, he would be setting a double standard, in which case I'd call his faithfulness into question!
Doesn't the Bible say 'the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow' , or is that another thing the pagans made up?
Banjo Guru

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween
Regarding the rest of your post:

Originally posted by Shonet1430
Ok let me clear this up for you. I'm aware of what Pompey did and how he got into the Temple, Zerubbabel's. Each temple building had to do with an exile. There are three, hence there will be three temples It does not matter how many times a temple gets built according to prophecy, if there is no exile, it doesn't matter. .

Is that so? Please provide th erelevant passages requiring three exiles before the 3rd and final temple is rebuilt, I must have missed those.

Me- Yes quite, and when one hauls out a dictionary definition in an attempt to make one’s case, it means they themselves had to go fishing for understanding.

That's not true at all. Some people lack understanding of the many different usages of words and sometimes altogether. When a lawyer brings up a precedent, is he fishing for understanding? No. He's supporting his case.

Some do yes, I am notone of those "some people." Nevertheless, I take the position that anyone debating should at least be up to the task, that is not always so, but resorting to posting dictionary definitions is not something you would find me doing to try and make a point, simply because I would not do so in everday conversation with another, and were I to resort to same, means that I look to something else to bolster my argument, because I need help and an aversion.

What is not true? The statement I made that such was supposedly written, or the warning itself?

The statement that Gentiles aren't allowed in G-d's house. There were sections for Jewish men, Jewish women, and Gentiles. So to say they weren't allowed is false. To say they weren't allowed along with the Jewish women not being allowed in certain parts is true.

Then take that up with those who carved the inscription, I presented the supposed text, I did not compose it. There is nothing either you or I can do about same, so the point is moot and irrelevant. Much like the dictionary definition.

Hmmm, it seems to me that the 'foreigners' were welcomed by God, so long as they were willing to follow and abide by his Torah ! Look at the story of Ruth and Naomi.....also, why have a court of the Gentiles if the Gentiles could not come in?
Banjo Guru

Originally posted by banjo_guruThen take that up with those who carved the inscription, I presented the supposed text, I did not compose it....

To what exactly are you responding, and what text did you present and where?

The Third Temple will be rebuilt because it is prophecied in the bible.

Revelation 11:1 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, "Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there.

Originally posted by SomewhereinBetween

Originally posted by banjo_guruThen take that up with those who carved the inscription, I presented the supposed text, I did not compose it....

To what exactly are you responding, and what text did you present and where?

I have no idea what happened, me and this 'quoting' system have problems sometimes....sorry.
I was trying to reply to the statement that gentiles were not allowed into the temple, that could not be farther from the truth; the mixed multitude that came out of Egypt were definitely part gentile.
Ignoring that fact I re-iterate that gentiles were welcomed to worship with them as long as they observed Torah .
Banjo Guru

I know this may seem like anecdotal evidence, andI can't provide a link to back this up, but a very close friend of mine spent a year doing an exchange program with the Hebrew Universoty in Jerusalem. During the course of his studies, one of his proffesors, his proffesor of Jewish History, who was, obviously, Jewish, explained the reason why Israel has not built a new temple.

He said right now the Jews are in a bit of a catch 22. In order for them to build a Temple, the Jews need to cleanse themselves, and become clean. But in order to do the cleansing rituals, they need to have a temple. So they're a bit stuck right now, and not able to build a temple in Jerusalem.

Anyway, I thought it was pretty interesting, and germaine to the topic.

The Third Temple could happen this generation (near future). We are in that age for them to rebuild the Third Temple. I cannot see it happening in 100 years. The main focus today in the world is peace. Sometime this week, G8 will have a meeting on the new Middle East peace plan.news.bbc.co.uk...

We know that the AntiChrist will set a peace treaty for 7 yeas. This is going to be Globle Governance (New World Order), or One World Government. Everything will coming to global. There will be One World Currency sometime in the future. The National ID Card will effect in 2008. There will be One World Religion. Soon, the Third Temple will be rebuilt. Today, they are planning on it.

We are in the generation that they will rebuild the Third Temple. I cannot see it happening in 100 years. The main focus today in the world is peace. Sometime this week, G8 will have a meeting on the new Middle East peace plan.news.bbc.co.uk...

We know that the AntiChrist will set a peace treaty for 7 yeas. This is going to be Globle Governance (New World Order), or One World Government. Everything will coming to global. There will be One World Currency sometime in the future. The National ID Card will effect in 2008. There will be One World Religion. Soon, the Third Temple will be rebuilt. Today, they are planning on it.