Third Temple / Ark of the Covenant

I think it's pretty much accepted that the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem will need to be rebuilt if the prophesy of Revelation is to be fulfilled. I think there are some in Israel who want to do it now, but they are a small minority. Would the Ark of the Covenant need to be recovered to truly complete the temple and fulfill prophesy? If the true Ark of God is discovered before the temple is rebuilt, I believe that would quickly create a wide demand in Israel to rebuild the temple quickly to properly house the Ark. If this happens will Jews in Israel resume animal sacrifices for burned offerings and to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat of the Ark?

I read about the Ark being in Ethiopia but nobody seems to take the Ethiopian claim seriously enough to really investigate it. It could also still be in place underneath the Holy of Holies in a cave in the temple mount, but because the arabs have a mosque there, and they haven't been able to complete the explorations. I imagine if the temple is to be rebuilt, the mosque will have to be destroyed first, causing a bit of tension, to say the least.

Does anyone have any insights on these issues?

Israel is not Jewish.

Israel is a nationalistic secular humanist state that has co-opted the name, Israel.

The Rothschilds who bankroll Israel, are NOT Jewish. They come from Jewish ancestors; but the culture they promote is not Jewish.

See the building they built in Jerusalem for the Israeli Supreme Court. It is not related to the Covenant between YHVH and Israel, whatsoever.

www.solomonstemple.com...

So, if the Israeli Government happens to want to develop a new Temple, that has to do with the strategy of perpetuating the illusion that Israel is the same Israel that covenanted, consented to a very specific set of Legal Laws--first rescinded by Joshua the Soldier, and then made nearly totally irrelevant by generations of Talmud writers.

But, no, Israel is not the Israel of the Covenant. It's a counterfeit.



[edit on 4-1-2005 by defrag99]

Well, if you know anything about Judaism you would know that the Jews wouldn't dare rebuild a third temple since they believe that would hasten the end times and interfer with divine plans.

They wont blow up the Al Aqsa mosque

And no, animal sacrifices won't come back in style.

Sorry to hamper your fantasy

Excuse me. Which fantasy do you wish to hamper?

I thought I was hampering a few of my own.

In another Forum I visit, there is a thread in which they are discussing how to put up the Third Temple--and of course--clear the grounds of what happens to stand on that site at this time.

The topic is coming UP.

RedPhoenixDelta,

First, this is not my "fantasy". Also, it seems it is you lacking in understanding of Judaism since they believe that the temple needs to be rebuilt before the messiah can come, ushering in a new era of peace and an end to the enemies of Israel, so why wouldn't they want that?

From what I've learned, there are now rabbinical schools for priests to learn the temple rituals, including animal sacrifice. Pure blooded red heifers are being bred so that they will be ready to sacrifice and cremate for their ashes when the temple is rebuilt (the priests need to cleanse themselves with the ashes before entering it).

Here's a quote from the Jewish site listed below about the mosques:

...Islamic enemies who had built mosques as a revolt against the G-d of Israel and continue their pagan worship while their faces are directed to Mecca, thousands o f kilometres to the Temple Mount, and the backs to the holy site of the temple. We prayed to stop this terrible desecration of the holy hill of the G-d and people of Israel and to give the Israeli the strength and courage to remove the enemy of mankind from the Temple Mount, to purify it and to immediately start with the rebuilding of the end-time Temple of G-d to again be a house of worship of our Beloved G-d for Israel and for all the nations.

What makes you so sure that they wouldn't blow it up? This may be a radical/fringe group but I think the desire for a new temple is groing and if the Ark was discovered, it would happen almost immediately.

See these sites:

www.templemountfaithful.org...
www.templemount.org...

If Israel were following the Covenant the way it was given--"Thou shalt not murder"--I would agree that building a new Temple NOW would be appropriate. But that's not what's going on, is it?

I'm not arguing with you, that there is a new Temple movement.

I'm sure, it is exactly as you say.

Whether YHVH is behind it or whether it is an NWO trap, is the question I am raising.

Pure blooded red heifers are being bred so that they will be ready to sacrifice and cremate for their ashes when the temple is rebuilt (the priests need to cleanse themselves with the ashes before entering it).

Lets see some credible sources to a mainstream jewish organization breeding these heifers. Links please.

Zion is not ready for another temple.

My wife and I met a beautiful Jewish girl in a mall here in the USA the other day selling supposedly sand from the dead sea. We tryed some of it and it seemed to get rid of dry skin, so I bought some for mothers day. I asked her if she was a christian and she said no I'm Jewish. Huh? Well what is your religion I said. She said Jews only believe in the Old Testament. I guess just cuz she doesn't believe it doesn't necessarily mean all those things in the apocolypse won't happen. It makes you wonder why the people where Jesus is said to have originated from rejected him and his New Testament.

Jews believe that the messiah hasn't come yet and they need to rebuild the temple before he can. Of course Christians believe that Jesus was the messiah (he came not many years before the second temple was destroyed) and the new temple needs to be rebuilt before he can return according to prophecy.

There have been a couple of attempts in the last year of so of destroying the Al Aqsa mosque. The last was about 6 months ago which put Israel forces on high alert trying to stop the Islamic Extremist group that was though to be targeting the mosque.
Here is a link to a news story from back in July on a similar situation at the mosque.
Israel Storms Al-Aqsa Mosque, Muslims Angered
I am not familiar with the Arc of the Covenant angle and it's part in all this.

``

questioning why?? is the ...long since lost, gone
Ark o' Covenant included with this 3rd temple thing??

if memory serves me, both the Ark and the Tablets
(a'la Moses )were at the 1st Solomons'Temple
but those were plundered in the BabylonianCaptivity

i do concur with the idea that the 3rd Temple must be built
to usher in A MillennialReign by Messiah- but a 4th temple
will be present during that Reign (according to some in
the Jewish diversity of views)
btw, my 'victoras' is working on a thread concerning
some aspect of this 'Third Temple' topic
...i'm glad to see
i'm not alone in tackling this l-a-r-g-e & w-i-d-e subject.

I started this thread a long time ago, in fact it was probably my first thread on this site. I think I was just thinking that if the Ark was found, it would greatly increase the likelihood of the temple being built.

[edit on 5/1/2005 by djohnsto77]

Originally posted by djohnsto77


I read about the Ark being in Ethiopia ...[...]

djohnsto77(1-5-05@02:55AM) 'I think I was just thinking that if the Ark was found, it would greatly increase the likelihood of the temple being built'

I imagine if the temple is to be rebuilt, the mosque will have to be destroyed first, causing a bit of tension, to say the least.

Does anyone have any insights on these issues?

yes, your right, a re-discovered Ark would be a very curious relic indeed.
there might be a cult of "zealots or Zaddikim or Chassidim or RighteousOnes" desperately willing to make a Temple for the Ark....

but, 'they' will/would have a long hard fight to wrest control of an
'International World Heritage' type of artifact from the profiteers of the NWO- i.e. the new babylon.

I'm leaning more to a great deception angle to the fabricating of the 3rd temple...rather than a broad support or a diversified world acclaim for a 3rd temple.
This deception would leave intact the Mosques and
the generally accepted TempleMount area, which is lawfully administered
by a non Jewish Authority.

thats as much as i can divulge, right now.
you might call my view as an insight...or just a crackpot theory...
who knows...?
I suppose that's why i altered my signature line, to the current copy


well, since then (initial posts at ATS) has your views/insights/relevent imputs/ evolved or changed in importance, concerning the Apocalyptic 3rd Temple which must be erected for the prophecy of Revelations to play out ??

I think it's pretty much accepted that the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem will need to be rebuilt if the prophesy of Revelation is to be fulfilled.

How so? Revelation has nothing to do with Jews. It is not a Jewish text so I'm pretty sure that they aren't concerned with fulfilling Revelation.

I think there are some in Israel who want to do it now, but they are a small minority. Would the Ark of the Covenant need to be recovered to truly complete the temple and fulfill prophesy? If the true Ark of God is discovered before the temple is rebuilt, I believe that would quickly create a wide demand in Israel to rebuild the temple quickly to properly house the Ark.

The Ark isn't needed for the temple rebuild. The moshiach is. Jews know that the moshiach must be the one to lay the cornerstone so I'm not quite sure why you think finding the Ark would hurry things along. Part of the moshiach is that there is universal agreement among Jews on who it is. That will be after they have all been gathered there as well. None of that has happened yet so it's safe to say that the temple isn't close to being built yet.

If this happens will Jews in Israel resume animal sacrifices for burned offerings and to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat of the Ark?

If the Ark is found, no. When the temple is rebuilt, yes as it is one of the 613 laws.

I read about the Ark being in Ethiopia but nobody seems to take the Ethiopian claim seriously enough to really investigate it. It could also still be in place underneath the Holy of Holies in a cave in the temple mount, but because the arabs have a mosque there, and they haven't been able to complete the explorations. I imagine if the temple is to be rebuilt, the mosque will have to be destroyed first, causing a bit of tension, to say the least.

You should subscribe to the Israel news. The Ark is said to be uncovered by the Tisha B/Av Fast this summer.

Well, if you know anything about Judaism you would know that the Jews wouldn't dare rebuild a third temple since they believe that would hasten the end times and interfer with divine plans.

What divine plans? And where did you get this info on Judaism?

And no, animal sacrifices won't come back in style.[/quotes]

G-d's laws don't go out of style. Sorry.

First, this is not my "fantasy". Also, it seems it is you lacking in understanding of Judaism since they believe that the temple needs to be rebuilt before the messiah can come, ushering in a new era of peace and an end to the enemies of Israel, so why wouldn't they want that?

Not true. The moshiach must lay the cornerstone to the temple. Jews work on a daily basis to usher in the new era of peace. Your information on Judaism is flawed.

From what I've learned, there are now rabbinical schools for priests to learn the temple rituals, including animal sacrifice. Pure blooded red heifers are being bred so that they will be ready to sacrifice and cremate for their ashes when the temple is rebuilt (the priests need to cleanse themselves with the ashes before entering it).

So what if there are schools teaching such. That says nothing.

Here's a quote from the Jewish site listed below about the mosques:

That is a Zionist site, not the traditional Jew.

What makes you so sure that they wouldn't blow it up? This may be a radical/fringe group but I think the desire for a new temple is groing and if the Ark was discovered, it would happen almost immediately.

A. They wouldn't blow it up as the Jews were only instructed to defend themselves (though it is allowed to strike first). There must be a threat though.
B. The desire for the temple will come with the moshiach.
C. The Ark has been discovered.
D. No it wouldn't happen immediately as there is no moshiach.

I asked her if she was a christian and she said no I'm Jewish. Huh? Well what is your religion I said. She said Jews only believe in the Old Testament.

Why do so few people know this? It puzzles me.

I guess just cuz she doesn't believe it doesn't necessarily mean all those things in the apocolypse won't happen.

Wrong. It's because Jews don't believe in Jesus.

It makes you wonder why the people where Jesus is said to have originated from rejected him and his New Testament.

It makes me wonder why people accept him and "the" NT. First of all, the NT was not around when he was. All of the scripture said to be inspired was the only scripture they had...the Tanakh or as Christians call it, the OT. Here's a bit on Jesus. Look it up yourself you wish.

=========================================
PREREQUISITES TO RECOGNIZE THE MESSIAH
=========================================

INTRODUCTION

The Bible is transparent on the subject of the role of the messiah. It should be noted that, although there are many sections throughout the Jewish scriptures that vividly describe how the world will be forever transformed with the arrival of the messiah, very few are about the messiah personally. The vast quantity of messianic scripture in Tanakh depicts the state of perfection that the world will achieve at the end of days. It is quite clear from the vantage point of Tanakh that the significance of the messiah himself pales in comparison to the utopian age that his arrival will usher in.

The reason Judaism does not accept the Christian messiah is because Jesus fulfilled none of the messianic prophecies clearly foretold in the Jewish scriptures. The following is an overview of the most distinct messianic prophecies as outlined in the Jewish scriptures -- which both Christians and Jews agree are messianic:


World Peace

"And he [Messiah] shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." -- Isaiah 2:4

"He [Messiah] will destroy death forever." -- Isaiah 25:8

"Then the inhabitants of the cities of Israel will go out and make fire and feed them with the weapons -- shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, clubs and spears; they shall use them as fuel for seven years." -- Ezekiel 39:9

Universal Knowledge of G-d

"For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord, as the waters cover the sea. -- Isaiah 11:9

"And no longer shall one teach his neighbor or shall one teach his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know Me, from their smallest to their greatest," says the Lord" -- Jeremiah 31:33

"All who survive of all those nations that came up against Jerusalem shall make a pilgrimage year by year to bow low to the King Lord of Hosts and to observe the feasts." -- Zechariah 14:16

"And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and His name one." -- Zechariah 14:9

"Thus said the Lord of Hosts: In those days, ten men from nations of every tongue will take hold -- they will take hold of every Jew by a corner of his cloak and say, "Let us go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you."
-- Zachariah 8.23

Building of the Third Temple

"...and I will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. My temple also shall be with them. Yes, I will be their G-d and they shall be My people. And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. -- Ezekiel 37:26-28 (See also Ezekiel 40-48; Isaiah 33:20)

Death Will Cease

"He will swallow up death forever...." -- Isaiah 25:8

Resurrection of the Dead

"Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust, for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." -- Isaiah 26:19

"And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." -- Daniel 12:2

"Therefore, prophesy and say to them, "So says the Lord G-d: Lo! I open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves as My people, and bring you home to the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and lead you up out of your graves as My people."
-- Ezekiel 37:12-13

Ingathering of Israel

"I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather you from the west. I will say to the north, ''Give up,'' and to the south, "Keep not back, bring My sons from far, and My daughter from the ends of the earth. -- Isaiah 43:5-6. (See also Jeremiah 16:15; 23:3; Isaiah 11:12; Zechariah 10:6; Ezekiel 37:21-22)

(And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. -- Isaiah 11:12

But, As the L-rd lives, who brought the people of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands where he had driven them; and I will bring them back to their land that I gave to their fathers. -- Jeremiah 16:15

And I will gather the remnant of my flock from all countries where I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase. -- Jeremiah 23:3

21. And say to them, Thus says the Lord G-d: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from among the nations, where they have gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land;
22. And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all; and they shall be no more two nations, nor shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all; -- Ezekiel 37: 21-22)

The Nations Will Help the Jews Materially

"Then you shall see and be radiant, and your heart shall fear and expand; because the abundance of the sea shall be overturned upon you, the wealth of the nations shall come to you." -- Isaiah 60:5

"Foreigners shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister to you. Men shall bring you the wealth of the nations with their kings led in procession. For the nation and kingdom that will not serve you shall perish; those nations shall be utterly laid waste." -- Isaiah 60:10--12

"But you shall be called “priests of the L-rd,” men shall say of you, “ministers of our G-d;” you shall eat the wealth of the nations, and in their riches you shall glory." -- Isaiah 61:6

Eternal Joy and Gladness Will Characterize the Jewish Nation

"And the redeemed of the L-rd shall return, and come to Zion in song; everlasting joy shall be upon their head; they shall obtain joy and gladness, and sorrow and sighing shall flee. -- Isaiah 51:11

The Jews Will Be Sought For Spiritual Guidance

Thus says the L--rd of hosts: “In those days ten men out of all the languages of the nations shall take hold and seize the robe of a Jew, saying: `Let us go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you.' ” -- Zechariah 8:23

All Weapons Of War Will Be Destroyed

"Then those who dwell in the cities of Israel will go forth and set fire to the weapons and burn them, shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, handspikes and spears, and they will make fires of them for seven years...."
-- Ezekiel 39:9

The Enemy Dead Will Be Buried

For seven months the House of Israel will be burying them, in order to cleanse the land. -- Ezekiel 39:12

The Egyptian River Will Run Dry

"And the L-rd will utterly destroy the tongue of the sea of Egypt and wave His hand over the river with His scorching wind, and smite it into seven channels, and make men cross dryshod." -- Isaiah 11:15

Trees Will Yield New Fruit Monthly in Israel

And on both sides of the bank of the stream, all trees for food will grow; their leaves will not wither nor will their fruit fail, but they will bear fresh fruit every month, because their waters flow from the Sanctuary; their fruit will be for food, and their leaves for medicine. -- Ezekiel 47:12

Each Tribe of Israel Will Receive It's Inheritance

"Thus says the L-rd, G-d: “These are the boundaries by which you shall divide the land for inheritance among the twelve tribes of Israel: Joseph shall have two portions. And you shall divide equally that which I swore to give your fathers, and this land shall fall to you as your inheritance.” -- Ezekiel 47:13--14

All Warfare Will Cease

"And He shall judge among the nations and decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into ploughshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore." -- Isaiah 2:4


CONCLUSION

It is interesting to note that these Messianic prophecies foretell the nations' subjugation to Israel. If Jesus was really the Messiah and the Jews persecuted and killed him, why is G-d going to reward them so greatly? Partly for not yielding to centuries of Christian persecution.

Moreover, when looking back at all of these prophecies, we can clearly see Jesus is not the Messiah. Jesus fell short of fulfilling any of the major messianic prophecies; he was never anointed as King, he never ruled Israel, and the world was certainly not perfected in his time. In addition, he was not preceded by the return of the prophet Elijah. To suggest Jesus is the Jewish Messiah is, in effect, saying that G-d was lying to the Jewish people when he promised a Messiah from the house of David who would fulfill all of the prophecies.


===========================================

Jews believe that the messiah hasn't come yet and they need to rebuild the temple before he can.

First part is right, second part is wrong.

questioning why?? is the ...long since lost, gone
Ark o' Covenant included with this 3rd temple thing??

It has nothing to do with it.

but a 4th temple will be present during that Reign (according to some in the Jewish diversity of views)

Proof please of the Jews that believe in a fourth. That would go against the three exiles.

How many times does the temple need to be built before those who believe in the apocalyspse can count past two?

Solomon: built same the first time. (1)

Nebuzaradan burnt it to cinders

It was built for a second time by Zerubabbel. (2)

Destroyed again by Pompey

Rebuilt by Herod The Great. (3)

Three temples have come and gone. It is over!

Supposed warning on old structure:

No Gentile is to be approach within the balustrade
round the Temple and the peribolos.

Whosoever is caught will be guilty of his own death
which will follow.