Ancient river network discovered buried under Saharan sand

Radar images of the Mauritanian desert have revealed a river stretching for more than 500km and suggest plants and wildlife once thrived there

Ancient river network discovered buried under Saharan sand

Radar images taken from a Japanese Earth observation satellite spotted the ancient river system beneath the shallow, dusty surface, apparently winding its way from more than 500km inland towards the coast.

The buried waterway may have formed part of the proposed Tamanrasett River that is thought to have flowed across parts of Western Sahara in ancient times from sources in the southern Atlas mountains and Hoggar highlands in what is now Algeria.

It's been a while since I've brought a kill to the table but this morning while going over some of the lesser known discoveries I came across this interesting little story. A short time ago I posted this thread Forgotten Human History, in it, I postulated the possibility that now buried ancient river valleys in the Sahara may have had at sometime in prehistory, settlements and or, now forgotten and lost ancient cultures/civilizations.

Four of the known "Cradle Civilizations" sprung up along river valleys, Sumer, Indus, Egypt and in China. Africa being the academically accepted origin of Homo Sapiens should, in theory, still hold yet to be discovered ancient ruins and sites that would in my humble opinion push back even further in prehistory our accepted timeline of early cultures/civilizations.

It's been postulated that the Nile to the East of the Sahara became the focal point of early Civilization due to the drying out of Northern Africa which became inhospitable to wild life/our ancestors prey. Along with river valleys drying up and subsequently causing forced migration. Are there other ancient prehistoric sites/cities/cultures to still be found buried from which the people migrated to the Nile region and later founded one of our better known cradle civs?

“It’s a great geological detective story and it confirms more directly what we had expected. This is more compelling evidence that in the past there was a very big river system feeding into this canyon,” said Wynn, who was not involved in the latest study. “It tells us that as recently as five to six thousand years ago, the Sahara desert was a very vibrant, active river system.”

a reply to: SLAYER69

I blame climate change...

Poor sods of the day probably introduced some tax to combat Saharan region drying up.

a reply to: SLAYER69

A couple of maps of this would be great, old settlements, new settlements etc etc

a reply to: SLAYER69

I can't help but agree with the author that this does indeed show how quickly the climate can change over a relatively short period of time in going from an apparent green, lush and humid environment (as seems to be suggested from this find) to one that is dry and arid.

and thanks for another fantastic contribution mate, as always

Great to have you back Slayer! I have surely mised your magnificent threads.

a reply to: SLAYER69

t's been a while since I've brought a kill to the table...

Indeed...

Miss your threads Johnny boy. Glad to see you back in the saddle...

a reply to: SLAYER69

It's been a while since I've brought a kill to the table

Yeah, I've missed your posting.
But you came back with some good meat now.
S&F!
I think it would be nice if we had the money to do a big dig and see what all might be down there, in addition to human cultural evidence.... as to what animal remains might be buried under the sand. It might shed some light on the mechanics of climate change and the biosphere.

a reply to: SLAYER69

So the climate changed drastically and quickly, and this was before the industrial revolution?
Curious.

Sarcasm aside, it's great to see you around again.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Slayer69, you've done it again...surely you and your likes are the reason why I love ATS.

Ok, there we have our proof of a very drastic "climate change" event.

And yet another reason to challenge the mainstream history as we have been told.

This world surely is revealing it's secrets as we discover more with advances in technology and we unveil further the truth about our past.

Truly inspiring and mind boggling stuff right there.

the Sahara was once green so a river running through it isn't surprising.
some where i've read about what they called the cattle cult in the Sahara, and other things that would seem to thrive better in a green wetter environment.

to explain this a little better here is a article that gives NASA reason as to why it dried up.

Most scientists believe the Sahara dried up due to a change in the Earth's orbit, which affects solar insolation, or the amount of electromagnetic energy the Earth receives from the Sun. Or to use simpler words, insolation refers to the amount of sunlight shining down on a particular area at a certain time. It depends on factors such as the geographic location, time of day, season, landscape and local weather.
What Changed The Green Sahara Into A Desert?

Thanks everyone.

Here is something along the lines of what I've often wondered, How could two groups of people separated by such a vast distance have such similarities ?

Still to be discovered, now lost, Root source?

Dogon Cosmology & Egyptian Hieroglyphic Writing

Along the cliffs of the Bandiagara escarpment in Mali – south of the Niger river and north of Upper Volta – live the modern-day Dogon tribe, a reclusive society consisting of approximately 300,000 individuals. To all outward appearances, they are a primitive tribe, who manage a near-subsistence living as onion farmers, metal-workers, weavers, and artisans under the often difficult conditions of a Sahelian climate, one that typically provides four months of rain followed by an extended dry season.

The current locale of the Dogon, which is far from any of the well-travelled routes of modern society, may have been a deliberate choice based on its ability to shelter a valued traditional way of life from unwelcome outside influences – the Dogon are thought to have migrated to this region from the Niger River in the 1500’s as a way of avoiding forced conversion to Islam.

Although Dogon society may seem well distanced from outside contact, their culture appears to constitute a kind of spiritual crossroads for several important ancient religious traditions. The Dogon are the keepers of a well-preserved cosmology that is cast in the symbols and myths of the classic ancient cosmologies. These myths provide a conceptual framework upon which many Dogon civic traditions are based, and often take forms distinctly similar to those that are known to have existed in ancient Egypt.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
Thanks everyone.

Here is something along the lines of what I've often wondered, How could two groups of people separated by such a vast distance have such similarities ?

Still to be discovered, now lost, Root source?

Dogon Cosmology & Egyptian Hieroglyphic Writing

Along the cliffs of the Bandiagara escarpment in Mali – south of the Niger river and north of Upper Volta – live the modern-day Dogon tribe, a reclusive society consisting of approximately 300,000 individuals. To all outward appearances, they are a primitive tribe, who manage a near-subsistence living as onion farmers, metal-workers, weavers, and artisans under the often difficult conditions of a Sahelian climate, one that typically provides four months of rain followed by an extended dry season.

The current locale of the Dogon, which is far from any of the well-travelled routes of modern society, may have been a deliberate choice based on its ability to shelter a valued traditional way of life from unwelcome outside influences – the Dogon are thought to have migrated to this region from the Niger River in the 1500’s as a way of avoiding forced conversion to Islam.

Although Dogon society may seem well distanced from outside contact, their culture appears to constitute a kind of spiritual crossroads for several important ancient religious traditions. The Dogon are the keepers of a well-preserved cosmology that is cast in the symbols and myths of the classic ancient cosmologies. These myths provide a conceptual framework upon which many Dogon civic traditions are based, and often take forms distinctly similar to those that are known to have existed in ancient Egypt.

Laird Scranton is a liar who makes it up as he goes along. He based his original work on The Pale Fox by M. Griaule, G. Dieterlen which has also been debunked.
Take for example his lie above that the Dogon live in a remote area,
www.dogoncountry.com...
This map from their own website shows all their villages just outside Burkino Faso, which has a population of 17 million

This is a case of a westerner making up stories to sell books and enrich himself about an African tribe because he thinks no one can check the details. The same reasoning for Blavatsky using Tibet a century ago
His claim that they are well distanced from outside contact is also a lie, thesedays the Dogon have internet. Go ask them
www.dogoncountry.com...

As for them having any similarity with the Egyptians, thats made up nonsense as well

originally posted by: Sublimecraft
a reply to: SLAYER69

I can't help but agree with the author that this does indeed show how quickly the climate can change over a relatively short period of time in going from an apparent green, lush and humid environment (as seems to be suggested from this find) to one that is dry and arid.

and thanks for another fantastic contribution mate, as always

It only takes a single earthquake to tilt the land so that a small -0.5% incline becomes a 0.5% incline. Suddenly, water that used to flow downhill towards settlements will flow in the opposite direction or drained away by new fault lines. Rivers can silt up so that lakes form in their place. Landslides can block off rivers entirely.

books.google.co.uk... GRO0t8&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMIr9WAhs2IyQIVQTsUCh39KA9l#v=onepage&q=hot%20baths%20dry%20after%20earthquake&f=false

a reply to: SLAYER69
This find isn't really a surprise to you, is it?

As more and more of the tech we now have, and the tech to come, gets adapted to archaeological and geological use, a lot of what we think we know about our past is going to change. I think history is going to be re-written several times over, in the next hundred years. Too bad we won't be here to see it. Gotta feel good to see bits and pieces of your own suspicions about history come to light.

They have known about the water under the sand for some time now. It is home to the golden catfish if my memory serves me right, completely blind with no natural predators.

However you are correct that the magnitude of the rivers has not been proven.

Nice find.

a reply to: SLAYER69

Great article / link

Words are symbols and symbols are words.
The way people thought is different to our modern way and as such language reflects it.

For example :-

In Dogon mythology they use a word meaning placenta in their description of the birth of the Sun and Sirius
Of course our modern way of thinking would replace the placenta for nebula.

But to answer your question ... Perhaps truth is inherent and though someone may a live a the other side of the world ... People can share the same way of looking at things
Though it seems the Dogon may have a very old link to pre Dynastic Egypt ...
The Dogons fled to their present isolated home 15'00s so they would not be forced to take the religion of Islam ... so the writer claims
If this is true then perhaps they also fled Egypt at some point to avoid religious persecution and hold onto their traditions ...

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: SLAYER69

I blame climate change...

And that's actually correct. The Sahara was relatively green until the end of the last Ice Age. It was arid but not complete desert about 6000-7000 BC. It was the growing desertification (Egypt's Sahara is the most BARREN desert I've ever seen) that pushed people into valleys and then back to the Nile which gets its water from the mountains in Sudan rather than from the less-than-10-inches-a-year rainfall.

originally posted by: SLAYER69
Thanks everyone.

Here is something along the lines of what I've often wondered, How could two groups of people separated by such a vast distance have such similarities ?

Still to be discovered, now lost, Root source?

No, there's good evidence that the Egyptian writing developed locally. The Dogons as a culture (3,000-4,000 years) do not go back as far as the Egyptians do (7,000 years.) The Dogon culture derives from other older cultures.

Their cultures are extremely different (for one thing, the Egyptians are egalitarian... the Dogon separate the sexes to the point where men have a different language than women) and they're linguistic isolates.

originally posted by: Byrd

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: SLAYER69

I blame climate change...

And that's actually correct. The Sahara was relatively green until the end of the last Ice Age. It was arid but not complete desert about 6000-7000 BC. It was the growing desertification (Egypt's Sahara is the most BARREN desert I've ever seen) that pushed people into valleys and then back to the Nile which gets its water from the mountains in Sudan rather than from the less-than-10-inches-a-year rainfall.

Are you talking about man made climate change, or just regular climate change? the two are vastly different.

originally posted by: network dude
Are you talking about man made climate change, or just regular climate change? the two are vastly different.

And interwoven, even back then. Evidence suggests that previous desertifications were followed by a slight recovery before stabilising. This time it not only hasn't stabilised but it is continuing to spread. The most likely cause of this is human activity, particularly over-grazing and de-vegetation. The arrival of cattle herders during the green period, followed by a subsequent competition for grazing land, facilitated the spread of the deserts, and elsewhere, in arid areas, deforestation as further exacerbated this spread. That and contaminated waters, and over use of ground water.

It is "regular climate change" made worse by humans, I think.