Leader of "National Religious Liberties Conference" Calls for Execution of LGBT Folks

Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

There is no actual decree from God to kill sinners. There is however a Commandment:

Thou shall not murder.

Saying that there are those who 'deserve death' is not an automatic call to exterminate [/dalek]

My interpretation of this passage is that Paul is reminding his congregation that blatant sinful behavior without remorse and seeking redemption will lead to ultimate damnation and separation from God's blessing of immortal life in paradise.

a reply to: Gryphon66

Now, whether Paul was talking about actual homosexuals in Romans 1

It's my strong opinion that homosexuality in of itself was not the sin in Paul's eyes. I think I can make a strong case for that. Perhaps i'll make a thread!

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Is this because the charge in Leviticus doesn't apply post-Jesus, i.e. Age of Grace?

originally posted by: Lucid Lunacy
a reply to: Gryphon66

Now, whether Paul was talking about actual homosexuals in Romans 1

It's my strong opinion that homosexuality in of itself was not the sin in Paul's eyes. I think I can make a strong case for that. Perhaps i'll make a thread!

Idolatry (or at least, worshiping other gods) seemed to be what he was pointing to in my mind, also, acting against one's nature as part of some ritual ... (and of course the very reasonable for the most part litany of sins).

I'd love to see your thread if you start it! Let us know here.

a reply to: Gryphon66

"Please tell me this is a bull# story.
For the love of God in Heaven please tell me they did NOT actually say this."

~ Jesus

(just passing the message along...)

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Antediluvian started a thread in the Mud Pit a few days ago documenting, in general, what was happening at the "National Religious Liberties Conference" organized by Pastor Kevin Swanson and attended (and endorsed by) Presidential Candidates Cruz, Jindal and of course Huckabee.

(All three of those gentlemen appeared on stage with Swanson a few hours prior to the speech linked below.)

I am posting this specific video of the event here because I feel it deserves special attention and because more than focusing on passionate disagreement over religiously-justified intolerance in general, I am making the specific contention here that such a seemingly outlandish comment is, in spirit if not in fact, part of the underlying motivation of the entire movement behind so-called religious freedom activism.

Ironically, Pastor Swanson makes his hateful comments framed over a placard that reads "Freedom" ...

And isn't it convenient for the anti-freedom people out there that this person is sending out a personal invitation for them to blame freedom instead of him?

Frankly, this kind of thing has been happening a lot over the past few years. Too often to be coincidence. These people are deliberately sabotaging freedom of speech by saying things they know will piss a lot of people off to the point to where they stop thinking and blame freedom of speech instead of taking the argument up with the person who is speaking.

People like this man will be nothing more than a footnote in the pages of history that describe what happened to free speech. But it will be gone by the time anyone bothers to ask why, nonetheless.

-----------

I would like to follow the above up with some pertinent info. I am basically an atheist and subscribe to no religion. In fact, throughout my life religious people have often annoyed me and attempted to subvert things I care about. I also happen to be bisexual so there's really no incentive for me to defend religion other than on principle of freedom.

I completely believe that many religious people are hateful and intolerant but they are not this blatant about it. You might catch some of them saying this kind of stuff in church but they're generally smart enough to not broadcast it to everyone on the planet at a political event that they hope their side wins.

This stinks of propaganda and broader agenda to undermine ALL freedom. This is not just some little petty thing about protecting a small minority from some bullies. This is meant to turn massive numbers of people against personal freedom. And it's obviously working.

a reply to: Gryphon66

O.O That second video though...

Uhh... How can anyone watch that 2nd video & not realize that dude is nuts? First, his facial expressions were straight from a horror movie. Second, his constant shoulder & upper body contortions reminded me of a combination of someone who's had way too much to drink and the alien in "Men in Black" when it was wearing the "human suit". And third, that man said he would sit in cow manure, spread it all over his body, and that he was serious. How do we even debate against that? At what point do we realize that we're clashing with actual crazy people?

As for the original point in the OP: Just remember, the crazy outbursts like this are a sign that you're winning. The fact that they can't even bring up rational points without calling for executions & literally covering themselves in BS should show you how fringe your opponents are. Just stay strong & keep pushing forward.

(I'd also encourage you to show your friends & family these videos, particularly the neutral ones. Sometimes people need to see insane stuff like this to realize just how serious an issue is.)

The Bible in the new testament does not call for the death of homosexuals, rather it calls for their expulsion from the congregation. But if they were never even part of the congregation then they would be treated like anybody else. It also says that is what some of you were, which means that some of those first century Christians decided to change from what they were.

This is knee jerk reactionary to something somebody feels extra revulsion for.

Let them be I say, it's not for humans to judge, God will judge them , we don't have to worry about it, it's not our job as Christians to say who is going to die judged as bad by God for practicing sin, we just have mind our own behavior.

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

There is no actual decree from God to kill sinners. There is however a Commandment:

Thou shall not murder.

Saying that there are those who 'deserve death' is not an automatic call to exterminate [/dalek]

My interpretation of this passage is that Paul is reminding his congregation that blatant sinful behavior without remorse and seeking redemption will lead to ultimate damnation and separation from God's blessing of immortal life in paradise.

Hate to break it to you, but many theologians "overruled" that Commandment a long time ago. Their argument was that God said not to "murder", not that they shouldn't "kill". And since "murder" is unlawful killing, all they had to do is make laws that allowed killing in particular situations and it would be fine.

I'm not saying it's right (it's one of the things I hate about legalese), just that many religious scholars don't accept that Commandment at face value anymore.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Its interesting how many religiously motivated men have got themselves into positions within different country's legal systems in order to bring in laws to suit or protect their religions and its ideals.

The question is though especially when people chuck their old religious books at society today, what was relevant when these books and letters etc were created and later written up is not so relevant today. We live in a different world with sophisticated legal systems that in the main protect our societies. Religion gets to park its input without being questioned as to its true relevancy but fortunately more and more people are questioning precisely this today.

On the question of homosexuality of course its a no no when you want people to be breed for your armies and various ambitions. It also means you have men not so easily controlled when they don't have to worry to support a family. If you are gay then the bet place is to hide in full view and wearing some kind of religious garb.

The religious benefactors have always fought slyly to keep their status and power and will cling by their teeth and nails to keep everything at the status quo within their flocks etc. Its why they are hell-bent on getting more through their doors giving donations, etc adds to their egos in that "I have a bigger following than thou".

a reply to: Shiloh7

I'll simplify it even more than that. Some people are just nosy and/or controlling. There will always be people who care about what other people are doing and want to change those people's behavior. As long as there are people who'll act on that feeling, we'll always have these problems.

The simple cure would be for those people to mind their own business, but that's not going to happen. I even wish the warmongers of the world would just play some advanced online war games. Then they could satisfy their cravings for conquering other people without actually hurting real people through terrorist groups, mercenary groups, militaries & paramilitaries.

The irony of the U.S.A.'s constitutionally enshrined religious freedoms serving to bring down the nation, is indeed rich.

I can fix this problem right quick. Everybody close your eyes and put your fingers in your ears. Make it all "Ta Da!" right quick.

a reply to: Lucid Lunacy
I am sure that satan could twist many verses in the Bible to his own agender. Where does "thou shall not kill" not register with these people. Where does forgiveness register with these people Jesus promoted forgiveness and having the choice to follow ones free will or to follow him. Where in the bible does jesus say it is alright to kill non believers or non followers Jesus always taught to lead by example no matter what the consequences

a reply to: TheInhumanCentipede

The irony of the U.S.A.'s constitutionally enshrined religious freedoms serving to bring down the nation, is indeed rich.

What does that even mean...

a reply to: Qspeedyrock

I am sure that satan could twist many verses in the Bible to his own agender.

There is no twisting involved. We can merely post verses and analyzes them. It's not my wish to misrepresent. I'll only use verses from scripture.

Where does "thou shall not kill" not register with these people.

Where does that register indeed. Murder is condoned throughout the Bible for the most trivial of reasons.

Where in the bible does jesus say it is alright to kill non believers

Not from Jesus but the Bible does condone it. Many Christians believe the whole of the Bible represents god's words. God's words according to scripture is rife with death and immorality.

originally posted by: GENERAL EYES
a reply to: Gryphon66

"Please tell me this is a bull# story.
For the love of God in Heaven please tell me they did NOT actually say this."

~ Jesus

(just passing the message along...)

Thanks ... I hadn't heard from Him in a while. Glad to see He's still got a sense of humor.

LOL

a reply to: BrianFlanders

I think Pastor Swanson counts as one of the "anti-freedom people" Brian, not to put too fine an edge on it.

I don't blame freedom of speech or religion. In fact, I believe that our Constitution and the freedoms enshrined in it is one of the factors that is going to save this country IF we are to be saved. I do think Swanson is a nut, but being a nut is not against the law.

My problem is that he has a national stage, to the extent that three Presidential candidates saw fit to validate him with their presence.

We can no longer dismiss these ideas merely "fringe."

WE don't fight against these ideas by trying to silence them or deny people the right to say such silly garbage.

We fight against these ideas with better ideas, that in America, under our Constitution, you can believe basically anything you want, say anything you want as long as you aren't taking away someone elses freedom to do the same.

The Constitution becomes it's own guardian, in a sense, we are all just temporary workers.

originally posted by: Willtell
Btw, the MSM( particularly the GOP mainstream) better call these GOP candidates to account for being there with this dangerous bigot

Mike Huckabee is a regular on Fox.........

a reply to: Gryphon66
Since my daughter is gay and I go on Pride Marches with her, I suspect that this asshat would kill us both.

Come and get me and I'll attempt to respond in a negative way.

If you hurt my daughter, I would be at best unkind.