"Whoever discovers the interpretations of these sayings will not taste death"

"Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all (and after they have reigned they will rest)" (Thomas 2)

This^, along with the title of the post, are the first two verses of The Gospel of Thomas. If you have never read it, I highly insist you read it on your own before reading my following interpretation.

Can one truly elude death if they live a True life? Surely: God is a Living God. This idea is seen in John 8: 51-58, in which Jesus insists that those who understand his teachings will not taste death. Also see John 11:25-26, in which Jesus says that those who act upon their beliefs will never die... Knowing this is difficult to believe, Jesus immediately inquires "Do you believe this"? Anyone familiar with the OT knows that Enoch and Elijah both eluded death and ascended to the Kingdom in their lifetime.

These similarities insist that the Gospel of Thomas is a genuine Christian teaching. But, you may be asking, how will someone "reign over all"? How can multiple people "reign over all"? This answer is also in the Orthodox gospels in John 14:2 in which Jesus explains there are many rooms for people in the Father's Kingdom. Essentially, each person/couple(?) would get a "Room". The Gnostics called this a "Pleroma", and it is discussed frequently in The Gospel of Truth:

"Each one will speak concerning the place from which he has come forth, and to the region from which he received his essential being, he will hasten to return once again. And he want from that place - the place where he was - because he tasted of that place, as he was nourished and grew. And his own place of rest is his Pleroma. All the emanations from the Father, therefore, are Pleromas, and all his emanations have their roots in the one who caused them all to grow from himself. " (Gospel of Truth)

This is why our Heavenly Father is our true father, as opposed to our "biological" father. The heavenly emanation that was created, and pre-conceived for us, "our own room", was birthed by this Heavenly Entity; Our Father. Emanations are often considered masculine, this is why this entity is engendered as Male; Female would be the receptive aspect of the Pleroma. This female aspect is Knowledge; called "Sophia" . It is a consistent theme that through knowledge, or "Gnosis", and thus the eradication of ignorance, the Pleroma begins to present itself, and the "Second Birth" (John 1:12-13, John 3:6) is perpetuated. It is insisted that you should not stop seeking until you find.

Jesus said, "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered a carcass, and whoever has discovered a carcass, of that person the world is not worthy." (Thomas 56)

Does this resonate with any of you? I know it does with me. The world that so many call "The real world", often implying a 9-5 job, political correctness, and hypocrisy, is the carcass. The world as we know it is dead:


Then a teacher of the law came to him and said, “Teacher, I will follow you wherever you go.”

Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

Another disciple said to him, “Lord, first let me go and bury my father.”

But Jesus told him, “Follow me, and let the dead bury their own dead.” (Matthew 8:19-22)


Do you see what the Son of Man is? It is literally the birthed offspring of the human: like how a butterfly is the offspring of a caterpillar. This entity, this second birth, is spiritual, hence there is "no place to lay your head". This is our Pleroma, our "room" of infinitude we receive if we live according to Divine Will. A disciple is hesitant of 'going' to this place, so he requests to bury his father. Jesus replies by saying let the dead bury their own dead, implying that anyone who does not seek this second birth is essentially dead. So, where do we seek this Pleroma?

The following is Thomas verse 3. Brackets are my inserts, parenthesis are the translator's inserts

Jesus said, "If your leaders say to you, 'Look, the (Father's) kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the (Father's) kingdom is within you and it is outside you [Your Pleroma]. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living Father." (Thomas 3)

Children of the Living Father will not die: "...The dead are not alive, and the living will not die..." (Thomas 11)

in Revelation, which means "uncovering" or "disclosure", our inheritance (Pleroma) is described:

"I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’ or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.” (Rev 21:2-4)

a reply to: cooperton

S&F

I look forward to more of this type of posts from you.

Well done.

Wait, "Enoch and Elijah both eluded death and ascended to the Kingdom in their lifetime."
That is not the same as dying?
Because their lives ended, and that is the definition of death.

Or do you see death as a person, who can be evaded just like a bad neighbour?

The Gnostics like the Jews did not understand what "the kingdom of God", "the kingdom of Heaven" was.

"The kingdom of God" is the reign of God, not a place somewhere. To be "in Heaven" is to reign with God.

a reply to: cooperton

Deu 32:8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance, when he divided mankind, he fixed the borders of the peoples according to the number of the sons of God.
Deu 32:9 But the LORD's portion is his people, Jacob his allotted heritage.

So God put the sons of God over the Nations .These sons were part of the divine council where it was decided "let us go down and confound their language (Babel) ....

Psa 82:1 A Psalm of Asaph. God has taken his place in the divine council; in the midst of the gods he holds judgment:
Psa 82:2 "How long will you judge unjustly and show partiality to the wicked? Selah.
Psa 82:3 Give justice to the weak and the fatherless; maintain the right of the afflicted and the destitute.
Psa 82:4 Rescue the weak and the needy; deliver them from the hand of the wicked."
Psa 82:5 They have neither knowledge nor understanding, they walk about in darkness; all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

Now we see God standing in judgement towards them that were to be over the Nations . I would suggest that this is where we get the host of gods in mans history . Also it is clear that in the new testament that God also turned back to the Nations to undue His previous stance and replace his fallen ones with regenerated humans (those born again of the Sprite) imo

a reply to: Ove38

The kingdom of heaven is inside you.
That's the message.
Altough none of us has found it....yet.

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: Ove38

The kingdom of heaven is inside you.
That's the message.
Altough none of us has found it....yet.

"The kingdom of heaven" "the kingdom of God" is the reign of God

God reign from within, from the inside.

a reply to: Ove38

Correct.
You have the potential to become God.

And the most profound that i have not heard before was the one about the carcass.
Amazing wisdom.

a reply to: southbeach

No, the devil wanted to become God, the christians on the other hand are one with God, co-rulers with him. This is "the kingdom of God" the reign of God.

Three words: we get it.

One more word: mania.

As in, having the same discussion over and over and over and over and over. To the point where you are quoting conversations about conversations in a conversation about a dude who wouldn't converse about anything except himself. Just a tad bit...obsessive.

All the more power to you, it just seems unhealthy to dwell on something to the point you have to post the same material with the same message every week for the purpose of advertisement. I call that spam. But that is my opinion.

Pretty sure he means metaphysical death, not corporeal death.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
Wait, "Enoch and Elijah both eluded death and ascended to the Kingdom in their lifetime."
That is not the same as dying?
Because their lives ended, and that is the definition of death.

Their lives did not end, they just began:


The disciples said to Jesus, "Tell us, how will our end come?"

Jesus said, "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is.

Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death." (Thomas 18)

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
Wait, "Enoch and Elijah both eluded death and ascended to the Kingdom in their lifetime."
That is not the same as dying?
Because their lives ended, and that is the definition of death.

Or do you see death as a person, who can be evaded just like a bad neighbour?

There is a very big difference in being inside a human body as it is dying than being removed from the human body before death. It tells us a story of us really being more than just a body. Many have experienced being removed before trauma.

a reply to: cooperton

Common issue of misconception... something a lot of christians suffer from.
The bible is one huge text of mis interpretations of words older than the Jesus character himself, but then washed over and over by mouth to mouth teachings.

The only reason we believe we will experience death is because we differentiate the concept of life from it.
We see the two things as seperate events or stages of the state of the human being.
But they are not seperate, much like the tip of leaf is not seperate from the roots of the plant.

Modern religion profits from us believing in this differentiation, because they promise that they can provide somewhere to run to.
But it's a lie. There's nothing to run to much less anything to run from.
The human being is what it is. No church or alter can hide you from what is already part of yourself.

And once you realise this, it will suddenly dawn on you, that you will never "die", because what happens when the body expires is not something that is external or is an event, it's simply part of this never ending evolution that the universe goes through.

Not even reincarnation will cover living forever...
The idea of living indeterminately is simply a question of not seeing yourself or your body seperate from anything else.
You will still be you, or... the universe will still be the universe, even in 80 years, just in a way very much different than the one you know right now. And that is all good...

originally posted by: southbeach
a reply to: Ove38

The kingdom of heaven is inside you.
That's the message.
Altough none of us has found it....yet.

although it's pretty easy to find... even by another name. But seeing life as a game, you can still choose to play instead of submerging yourself into that kingdom.
You'll find that the reason we cant' find it is because we chose not to. It's inherently a part of us and we of it, but this particular point in time we are playing the game of "human beings".

Fx. if you are engaged in a game of soccer, how annoying do you find it if someone picks up the ball and starts talking about synthetic leather instead. So why spend time chasing our true selves when that is no really the point of the game.
Peace comes from choosing to be part of this as it is rather than trying to find out why it is. It's like trying to see the back of your own head. You know it's there, but you'll never see it, so stop chasing it

The words of the Jesus character stems from even older texts where the idea of God is something that is very accessible to all beings... someone along the way chose to either mis interpret these words or utilize them to centralize and idolize the power of those words. instill awe and fear in us. To control us. These ideas branched out and formed christianity, catholisism, judaism and islam. All four or them are nothing more than versions of the same mouth to mouth stories told and retold too many times with the wrong intentions or choice of words.
Back then, the kingdom simply signifies "all", since we are not seperate from any of it, just like a leaf at the top branch is not seperate from the leaf on the bottom branch. They are both a way that the tree is appearing here and now.

And so, the "kingdom of heaven" is right now, appearing just like you.

If you know this and then let it go, then you have found it and can always return to it, even while choosing to play this game for the moment. Heck, you will return eventually, so don't spend your time returning right now.

a reply to: cooperton

14. Jesus said to them, "If you fast, you will bring sin upon yourselves, and if you pray, you will be condemned, and if you give to charity, you will harm your spirits.

That alone explains why is was tossed by the Council. They'd go broke if they included it. Otherwise, most of it seems to contradict every other gospel where Jesus is quoted.

a reply to: cooperton

Jesus is the way the truth and the light the only way to escape death is by take the gift of his death.
Now I dont know who anybody is and im not a judge so that will be between you and god.
But there is no god but YHWH .
And Jesus is the Messiah.
or Savior
or lizard king ......long story there.
Or The Christ.
Yoshua.
And so no man should boast but its not of good deeds but of my blood that man shall enter heaven.
So evry man women and child that is on this Earth ......now that means the jews christains buddhist ect...
May enter his kingdom that will be ....Under his name

The elements that comprise our bodies have existed since the beginning of the universe and will exist until the end.

Part of us is transitory; the rest---eternal.

I can conceive that this general truth has been recognized at different levels for a very long time, including the time of the writer(s) of Thomas.

(... and they say non-believers can't philosophize)

a reply to: cooperton



Where is the door that the man and spider imaged?

Where are these words that I see and write?

My words are images of my awareness, (word/image/body/Son)
my awareness is of my spirit, (awareness/translator/soul/Father)
my spirit, my will, is to show you truth. (spirit/will/desire/Holy Ghost)

My words lead you to my awareness of my spirit. My words are my awareness of my spirit - they are what I see in my spirit - they are my spirit - my spirit is to write these words to you. My spirit, as I see it, is the will to write these very words to you, and that is what you are seeing now, as you read these words (my spirit). I have given you my body, these words / the image of my awareness, so that by eating, you will see / have life / have awareness [of the spirit].

[Body-Soul-Spirit][Soul-Body-Spirit][Spirit-Soul-Body]

Like a gift being the image of someone's will to give to you, as they have seen their will and translated it, to truly see the gift, you must see their spirit, which their awareness is of: which is their love for you (hopefully).

We have to stop thinking of physicality like it is a shell to forces, or that it is objects with forces within them, or round about them, and start thinking of physicality like it is will structured by awareness - it is determined will - THEN we can know Father and his kingdom (by knowing the awareness / by seeing his will). If we cannot do this, if we cannot see his will, then we cannot know him nor do his will for us...

Which is...

you have to find out that part for yourself.