Pre-Crime: Man Arrested And Beaten For Being In "Computer Predicted Crime Hot Spot"

a reply to: TKDRL

in the uk if you refuse to empty your pockets you will be arrested so i asumed it was the same.

besides that if you have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a problem,seems to me a lot of you here think its ok to refuse a search what are you hiding exactly?????????????????

originally posted by: DOCHOLIDAZE1
a reply to: Hefficide

I don't know a lot about this woman other than a quick google search, but it seems to me the majority of her talk is about deciding bail amounts and opportunities; essentially what to do with people AFTER they have been picked up for a suspected crime. I think this is a good place to use previous data on people. She did seem to hint at expanding this towards the pre-crime idea, which I would never support.

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: TKDRL

in the uk if you refuse to empty your pockets you will be arrested so i asumed it was the same.

With no probable cause or warrant, the most an officer can do in the US is pat you down for weapons if they feel their safety is in danger. A pat down does not include emptying your pockets, unless the pat down revealed something that could be construed as a possible weapon in your pockets.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

then your law needs changing thats ridiculous

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

then your law needs changing thats ridiculous

You think everyone should be subject to a search whenever, wherever, and for no reason?

EDIT: I see your edit above: "besides that if you have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a problem,seems to me a lot of you here think its ok to refuse a search what are you hiding exactly?????????????????"

Would you be OK with being stopped every hour on the hour to be searched with no other reason given than "if you have nothing to hide, what's the problem"? Give me 10 minutes of your time every 60 minutes of your life.

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

i did like her ideas on saving money, but she hints at (very carefully) at stopping crime before it happens, but doesnt give any insight on how to better deal with prosecuting real crime. the class im taking is all about breaking down arguments logically. and really she is just a salesmen with a baller resume

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

no only if their is probable cause and in this case their was ,he was parked in a known prostitute area for starters,

why even have police if your going to tie there hands,its absolutely crazy.
you could have crack in your pockets or pcp or a bomb,yo might have mugged someone and have their driving licence in your pocket and they cant check your pockets???
if you have nothing to hide it should not be a problem,say someone attacked your mum in a balaclava and the police where called quickly ,any officer patroling could stop subjects and ask them to empty their pockets looking for the balaclava and then the culprit is found,,with your system they walk away scot free..


i have been stopped several times in one day yes and had my pockets searched ,but in reality it does not happen that much unless your known to police .

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

no only if their is probable cause and in this case their was ,he was parked in a known prostitute area for starters,

why even have police if your going to tie there hands,its absolutely crazy.
you could have crack in your pockets or pcp or a bomb,yo might have mugged someone and have their driving licence in your pocket and they cant check your pockets???
if you have nothing to hide it should not be a problem,say someone attacked your mum in a balaclava and the police where called quickly ,any officer patroling could stop subjects and ask them to empty their pockets looking for the balaclava and then the culprit is found,,with your system they walk away scot free..

1) You must have missed where I mentioned probable cause above.

2) Being parked... in parking lot, is not probable cause, regardless of the neighborhood. Unless you want to open up socioeconomic / racial /anything a cops wants to profiling.

3) Your example seems to presume that ANYONE they find with a balaclava in the area is guilty. That is some great policing. This is exactly why I wouldn't submit to any search. Say I had a balaclava on me and happened to be in the area. Now I am guilty?

a reply to: windword

uh why is no one asking why he had a fully loaded magazine in his pocket?
I'm mean who wanders around with a loaded mag?
Did he get lost on the way home from the gun range and forget to take it out?
was he trying to impress a date?

a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

a parking lot in a prostitute area is cause to like it or not,your just splitting hairs ,
no just because you have the balaclava does not mean you will be charged with the crime you will just be detained for further questioning and released with out charge if your innocent.

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

a parking lot in a prostitute area is cause to like it or not,your just splitting hairs ,
no just because you have the balaclava does not mean you will be charged with the crime you will just be detained for further questioning and released with out charge if your innocent.

In the US, a public parking lot does not give officers probable cause. I am not splitting hairs, I am telling you how the laws are written here.

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: TKDRL

in the uk if you refuse to empty your pockets you will be arrested so i asumed it was the same.

besides that if you have nothing to hide it shouldn't be a problem,seems to me a lot of you here think its ok to refuse a search what are you hiding exactly?????????????????

Well that explains it. We broke away from the monarchy for a reason you know. US citizens are not serfs. Of course I think it's OK to refuse a search, it is in our constitution. The cops are not supposed to be overlords here. We cannot be detained or searched without probable cause or warrant in the US.

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

a parking lot in a prostitute area is cause to like it or not,your just splitting hairs ,
no just because you have the balaclava does not mean you will be charged with the crime you will just be detained for further questioning and released with out charge if your innocent.

No. Parking in an area prostitutes frequent is parking. Until he starts interacting with them it is nothing more than that.

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: TycoonBarnaby

a parking lot in a prostitute area is cause to like it or not,your just splitting hairs ,
no just because you have the balaclava does not mean you will be charged with the crime you will just be detained for further questioning and released with out charge if your innocent.

But what about the people that live in that area? Should they be subject to this every time they go outside?

By your logic they have probable cause to search you because you live down the road..

a reply to: Revolution9

no, you should not consent to an unconstitutional search for fear of being beaten, killed, or harassed. That entirely defeats the purpose of having civil liberties and protections. Plus the fact that the only he was being searched was because of a bull# computer program... how is this not the cause of the incident?

what's wrong with this government?! how could they beat him like that for nothing!? next thing we know, we will be in concentration camps.

originally posted by: Hefficide

You do realize those "few rights" are what keeps us from descending into outright fascism and are the very core of everything we, as a nation, cherish and strive to pass onto our children?

Yes, I realize that that is what people think. I don't believe it for a second, but if other people want to believe it, who am I to stop them?

If the people who payroll our leaders want to turn this country into a fascist state, there isn't anything you or I could do to stop it, and it doesn't matter what the constitution says. They don't care about that "nonsense" because they're not about political affiliations or allegiances. The real people who keep this world turning do so to make money. That is their belief system and that is the rule of law for them. They're pathetic.

You can try to label me as wanting this or that type of Government Heff, but the fact remains that ANY type of government control is unnecessary when you have a population capable of governing itself. This notion that we, as in humanity, need a chain of hierarchy sickens me to no end. I fully understand that it will always be that way because you will always have more weak minded people on this planet than people who can think and do for themselves, but that doesn't mean I have to play the game to the extent that they do.

Have a good day.

It's one thing for a computer to mark out an area with lots of crimes or complaints such that cops should patrol it more often. (Makes sense, it's just automating stuff that used to be done manually by people working on the desk side of a police department and/or doing dispatch.)

But the onus for what happened here should fall on that particular cop. The computer said blah blah blah, so... NO! That's B.S. You overstepped the bounds of your authority by assaulting somebody in the performance of your duties, therefore that lies upon you Mr. Cop. Quit trying to pass the buck.

I'm with others that hope this guy files a lawsuit. Shame it mostly falls on the taxpayers for that city, and not the cop that decided to rough somebody up. The cop could have simply asked a few questions and kept an eye on that person if still not trusting them.

no wonder your country is in the mess its in with the im above the law type attitudes,i suspect he fully deserved the beating.
take a look at your country with school kids shooting their class mates,is this normal??
for the police to work at reducing the awfull crime statistics there ,a stop and search system is essential.
this serves to protect the weak and vulnerable to,i think the atomic testing in america has warped some of your minds.
not to mention your ridiculous gang area's

give them stop and search powers,and i might actually think of taking a holiday in america,till then your retarded country is off my list,as to many of you have mental health issues!!!!

originally posted by: Taupin Desciple

You can try to label me as wanting this or that type of Government Heff, but the fact remains that ANY type of government control is unnecessary when you have a population capable of governing itself. This notion that we, as in humanity, need a chain of hierarchy sickens me to no end. I fully understand that it will always be that way because you will always have more weak minded people on this planet than people who can think and do for themselves, but that doesn't mean I have to play the game to the extent that they do.

I finally see. YOU don't even know what you want, you're simply confused.

You have spent the better part of this thread arguing that yes, police should have the right to search, harass and beats us with no more cause than a computer tells them so. Now, you state you don't want any government at all and we should be left to our own devices. Because unlike most people you are 'strong'.

At the beginning you wanted the most barbaric intrusions into our lives and privacy, and now you are saying you want none. Which is it?

Never mind, I get it. It's ok when they do this to others, just not you.