It's time to wake up!

originally posted by: Andy1144
People have the experience of the self dropping but not see clearly the whole mechanism behind the illusion. There is a major difference.

But that part is the same.

Because I am still not sure if we're on the same page with what we're saying. That's why I ask you for more clarity.

That's it. I've been saying it all along.

a reply to: daskakik

But that part is the same.

My point is whether the illusion of self is recognized clearly and thus sticks, instead of it just being disregarded as a hallucination or what have you because the person was not able to discern what was happening in their experience.

That's it. I've been saying it all along.

There's more to it.

originally posted by: Andy1144
My point is whether the illusion of self is recognized clearly and thus sticks, instead of it just being disregarded as a hallucination or what have you because the person was not able to discern what was happening in their experience.

Sure but that isn't the case with me or I wouldn't be telling you that we are talking about the same thing.

There's more to it.

What, are you going to make me take a test to get in the club?

a reply to: daskakik

Sure but that isn't the case with me or I wouldn't be telling you that we are talking about the same thing.

So that means you were talking about the latter definition; The one which didn't stick opposed to the one which did.

What, you are going to make me take a test to get in the club?

That depends on your shoe size.

How many times do I have to say that we are talking about the same thing?

a reply to: daskakik

How many times do I have to tell you that I don't know if you are unless you explain specifically what you experienced. There are more then one ways to experience the sense that "I am not my thoughts".

originally posted by: Andy1144
How many times do I have to tell you that I don't know if you are unless you explain specifically what you experienced. There are more then one ways to experience the sense that "I am not my thoughts".

You just asked me if it was the one that didn't stick when I already said that it was the sticky kind.

Either way they are both BS.

a reply to: daskakik

You just asked me if it was the one that didn't stick when I already said that it was the sticky kind.

Realizing that your identity, the person you thought you were all along is an illusion. The person with hopes, fears, expectations, control. When this sense is clearly seen to be nothing more then an illusion, it has major implications. Suffering starts to drop drastically. It has to me, and it has to itisnowagain.
So chances are, you aren't the sticky one. Because you would receive the pangs of the realization. You clearly haven't. If you did, you wouldn't claim it BS, but rather a very insightful experience.

originally posted by: Andy1144
If you did, you wouldn't claim it BS, but rather a very insightful experience.

Was going to edit that to "neither being all that you are making it out to be".

Sorry but it is that and it is still "meh" to me.

a reply to: daskakik

Sorry but it is that and it is still "meh" to me.

DE is meh if you haven't clearly seen the mechanism of self clearly. That's why I ask you specifically what you mean. All you said was the sticky one. But I don't know if you understand what I mean by that. It looks like it doesn't. Rather you've experienced the falling of the self without seeing the whole mechanism clearly.

originally posted by: Andy1144
But I don't know if you understand what I mean by that. It looks like it doesn't. Rather you've experienced the falling of the self without seeing the whole mechanism clearly.

I do but you think so highly of it that you can't imagine how someone can call it BS.

Please don't try to tell me what I have and have not experienced.

a reply to: daskakik

I don't know what you've experienced but speaking solely based on what your saying the experience wasn't the sticky one.

It's not that I'm making it into a religion, but it does has major implications for those whose realization sticks.

You keep on saying you've experienced what I'm saying, but I don't know that, and you're not opening up to be more specific.

originally posted by: Andy1144
I don't know what you've experienced but speaking solely based on what your saying the experience wasn't the sticky one.

Well, it was.

It's not that I'm making it into a religion, but it does has major implications for those whose realization sticks.

Whatever gets you through.

You keep on saying you've experienced what I'm saying, but I don't know that, and you're not opening up to be more specific.

Doesn't matter if you know it or not. What part of that don't you understand?

a reply to: daskakik

Doesn't matter if you know it or not. What part of that don't you understand?

It matters if I know, so I know what you're talking about for the sake of discussion. I've said this too many times.

Well, it was.

You keep on telling me this when it's pointless unless you tell me what you think I mean.
So tell me how this experience happened, what triggered it? If so much suffering is caused by thinking, then isn't realizing you aren't what thoughts think you are liberating?

originally posted by: Andy1144
It matters if I know, so I know what you're talking about for the sake of discussion. I've said this too many times.

To bad.

You keep on telling me this when it's pointless unless you tell me what you think I mean.
So tell me how this experience happened, what triggered it? If so much suffering is caused by thinking, then isn't realizing you aren't what thoughts think you are liberating?

So you can decide for yourself and impose that definition but I can't say what it is that experienced?

a reply to: daskakik

So you can decide for yourself and impose that definition but I can't?

Didn't you say you mean the same thing I mean? Why are you asking this then?
I can make points and there needs to be some way you can relate to those points I make. It's not like you can change their definition to fit your own liking. You can just discuss why you think my points are wrong in the first place. You aren't doing that.

To bad.

You don't wan't to discuss this topic. That's why we're going in circles. You keep avoiding it, saying the same things.

originally posted by: Andy1144
I can make points and there needs to be some way you can relate to those points I make.

Textbook definitions. Wasn't that the point of the links you posted. Did you question everyone who has ever claimed to have experienced DE and SI?

You don't wan't to discuss this topic. That's why we're going in circles. You keep avoiding it, saying the same things?

We don't need details of my experience to discuss the topic. That is your hang up.

a reply to: daskakik

We don't need details of my experience to discuss the topic. That is your hang up.

Yes, but providing detail makes the discussion more fruitful because there is more clarity.

originally posted by: Andy1144
Yes, but providing detail makes the discussion more fruitful because there is more clarity.

That isn't true.

Your description is just fine. I'm talking about the same thing. What more am I supposed to say? I already mentioned OBEs. Nothing says you are not your body like looking down at it while its sleeping. That knowledge stuck and it still there but it is no big deal.

a reply to: daskakik

The falling of the illusion of self isn't just one thing, or one experience. There are more variables involved in this which require more information to be more clear.