It's time to wake up!

originally posted by: Andy1144
Wikipedia definition of paradox - "a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true."
You can't except things can contradict and still be true?

Just because paradoxes exist, it doesn't mean the one you are talking about exists.

Just because someone will eventually die doesn't mean one can help ease their pain as long as they live. Your just dealing with one perspective.

Again with the perspective excuse?

So based on you, I should't take my mom to the ambulance when she needs it because she is going to die anyway. There is no point in giving her help. That's what you're saying.

Not based on me, based on the truth. That thing you keep touting but refuse to accept in whole.

I've said this far too many times, so to avoid going in circles please put more detail and analysis in your replies so I know what your saying.

There are pages upon pages of the same thing being repeated. If you need a reminder go back and reread the thread.

It doesn't matter to me on bit if someone suffers or not. It is pointless from one aspect. But that doesn't mean I don't help them when they need it.
I don't worry about others pain, through negativitiy and non acceptance. I simply do what is most logical to help another, when I find possible.

You worry enough about it to go on and on about it.

He did say that but was only addressing the absolute perspective without including the relative. He would probably agree that although suffering on some level doesn't matter, one can still be moved to help another, even after seeing the illusion.

Assumption.

a reply to: daskakik

Again with the perspective excuse?

You continue making the same mistake by telling me I'm wrong without the supporting evidence. That's how you mostly respond.

You haven't answered this question.
"So based on you, I should't take my mom to the ambulance when she needs it because she is going to die anyway. There is no point in giving her help. That's what you're saying."

There are pages upon pages of the same thing being repeated. If you need a reminder go back and reread the thread.

I can't because I have no idea what you were saying, so I am trying to make you explain yourself more instead of giving vague answers.

You worry enough about it to go on and on about it.

I'm starting to doubt that you're a troll now.

Assumption.

This is pointless, I can just quote you and say the same thing. It doesn't mean crap if you don't support why you said that. Please don't answer like this anymore. I you don't have any time or motivation to write detailed responses then don't write at all because it isn't helpful.

You just say I am wrong and don't explain why.

originally posted by: Andy1144
You continue making the same mistake by telling me I'm wrong without the supporting evidence. That's how you mostly respond.

I already posted why and you even agreed. You just keep wanting to inerject a "but" to justify your idea that it is somehow meaningful to "help make peoples experience better".

You haven't answered this question.
"So based on you, I should't take my mom to the ambulance when she needs it because she is going to die anyway. There is no point in giving her help. That's what you're saying."

I did in a previous post. If you can't follow the flow of the thread then that is for you to sort out.

Sounds like a couple of flat earthers trying to teach Columbus.

ETA: After returning from his trip.

a reply to: daskakik

I already posted why and you even agreed. You just keep wanting to inerject a "but" to justify your idea that it is somehow meaningful to "help make peoples experience better".

Yes, but you weren't clear what was wrong with it. Maybe you've somehow stated it but were way too vague so I have to ask you again so you can give me more details.

a reply to: Andy1144
I went into detail at least a couple of times and each time you simply repeated your opinion, accused me of not understanding the paradox or claimed it was a matter of perspective.

No point in repeating it over and over if you always come up with an excuse to satisfy that need that you seem to have to justify that idea.

a reply to: daskakik

I went into detail at least a dozen times and each time you simply repeated your opinion, been vague, telling me you already repeated it, and accusing my paradoxes were a way of hiding my fallacies.

Ultimately, why did you start this discussion in the first place? Was it because you had hopes of convincing me that I am wrong? If not then what is the motive behind you spending time to reply to me now?

originally posted by: Andy1144
I went into detail at least a dozen times and each time you simply repeated your opinion, been vague, telling me you already repeated it, and accusing my paradoxes were a way of hiding my fallacies.

I did not accuse you of not going into detail.

Ultimately, why did you start this discussion in the first place?

I did not start the discussion. The thread was started by EternalFire.

I was having a discussion with Unifinity and you joined that discussion.

Was it because you had hopes of convincing me that I am wrong?

Seeing that I don't offer proof I don't see how I could even concieve of convincing anyone.

If not then what is the motive behind you spending time to reply to me now?

Once engaged in a discussion I tend to just see where it goes.

originally posted by: Andy1144
So what is meant by this, how do you know yourself?

No it isn't. But it is necessary in order to see the absolute truth.
I am not saying it is all about DE. I said that DE is about realizing the absolute. Then when you realize that, then you can explore the other aspects of spirituality get it? Which don't aren't directly linked to DE.
But in a sense everything is, it's a matter perspective.

you have answered your own question. Know yourself is to know your mind. Know your mind and you will see the absolute. Silence your mind and be the absolute. It is that simple on the paper but in reality we don't have so many saints today. Why do you think?

This is my answer...

What I am about is nothing else but silencing the mind. Forever. The mind is fake. Body is fake. I and non I are fake. You know that and I know that also but I am trying to put it into practice for real.

Reality is: No desires, no thoughts, no doers and no separation. Eternal oneness forever in perpetual cycles. You know we are all one, but you avoid to investigate completely into what this really means. And I do not blame you, desire for a sainthood is rarely seen in person, exactly because of the difficulty. Each person has his own views and this is perfect, just the way it is. A person must find in himself the desire for this, all else is useless. So even this debate is useless. What you or I think we know, we are already decided and will not change because of a few posts.

Nature of body mind (ego I) is not to be silent, but to be engaged in the outside OR inside world. So a saint is one who goes against his stream of thoughts until he can clear them all and abolish them forever with ALL the false imaginations thoughts create for us. No thought - no imagination and only reality is left forever with you.

How do you do that? Fight fire with fire or false imagination with imagination until there will be none of it left or as they say - completely absorbed and dissolved into oneness.

When you desire to be ONE and start to practice in DE or meditation you start to know yourself. From what I can understand you have not perceived the depth of your own being (not talking about absolute, but your own conciousness or experience of it). Inner and outer are essentially the same. When you look outside you see stuff and can describe it or inspect it. The same goes for inner world. But inner world is not thought based. It is about feeling and awareness in silence.
When you silence the mind into DE, inner world will be revealed to you after some time. You must patently meditate to realize this and be without expectation. When you can bring one pointed concentration to certain areas in the body truths and wisdom will be reviled. As above so bellow is proven true without a doubt. We are conciousness and for IT there are no limits of expression - within and without. But we are limiting it with our thinking and false imagination.

And more you know yourself more spiritual powers you get, they are natural manifestations. There is nothing necessary to do to to get them, they come to you on their own if you have right action and motivation for progress - unconditional love and compassion. But they are the devils in disguise. More you use them, more you are engaged or distracted with the world - more you are missing the point - oneness, desirelessness, silence.

When you truly get to know yourself you are the absolute. This is complete self-realization. There is no difference between absolute and such "a person". God is speaking and doing everything for such "a person". Nothing is done by me (I-ego) but everything gets done through me (absolute/god/conciousness).
This is the point of true emptiness and renunciation of everything - the mind has to die. forever!

One must give everything away first freely and god will repay him in turn with everything - knowledge, wisdom, power, love, bliss...

This is about gradual self-realization, where the confidence and strength of faith is slowly building up through experience. But otherwise only our mind is in the way and if we could with 100% certainty, without a doubt drop it behind forever, than all steps are cleared and everything could be achieved in a second. But we are afraid to really let go and progress is dependent on that.

This is my path of learning about myself and I will not argue about it or imposed it onto others. It is something which I have concluded for myself only. But I imagine each person has his own experience and that is why I am here to learn from you all and take what suits me : )
for instance self inquiry which we did here, was very helpful in some ways!
I may not agree with you in all aspects, but we can always learn from each other : )

a reply to: daskakik

I did not start the discussion. The thread was started by EternalFire.

I was having a discussion with Unifinity and you joined that discussion.

That's semantics. You guys were making a discussion, I joined in, then it became dominantly me and you. So you had a long discussion with me. That was my point. Perhaps continuing would have been a more appropriate word. But let's not get stuck here too much.

Seeing that I don't offer proof I don't see how I could even concieve of convincing anyone.

Well pointing out where I am wrong is you trying to show proof that I am wrong.

How is it possible to even participate in an argument or discussion without providing proof?
I thought you were supposed to be the athiest, not the christian.

originally posted by: UniFinity
What I am about is nothing else but silencing the mind. Forever. The mind is fake. Body is fake. I and non I are fake. You know that and I know that also but I am trying to put it into practice for real.

You do not need to silence the mind and any trying to silence the mind will be the mind fighting for silence - seeking for it. It can be noticed that there is a quiet that is always there and thoughts are just flickers appearing and disappearing. Notice what the thoughts appear in.

Reality is: No desires, no thoughts, no doers and no separation. Eternal oneness forever in perpetual cycles. You know we are all one, but you avoid to investigate completely into what this really means.

Thought cannot be made into an enemy - thought happens. Thought is not a problem - it is the belief that I am the person in the stories the thoughts tell or that I am the one thinking these thoughts.
This moment and you are one - it is not that 'we are all one'. Really there is just what is happening - there is no 'you' and 'this moment'. What is happening is just happening - it is done - no one is doing what appears.
There is just timeless being - now is being what it is - now is happening as this - no one is doing now/this. But thought tells stories about someone who can do something.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

well this is a contradiction. But once you put it into right prospective all is clear.

From relative point we cannot silence the mind. So trying to do that will only bring failure, I know that well. I cannot do that, this is clear...
from absolute point the mind does not exists and because of that it is always in perfect silence...everything is conciousness. Until you drop everything else completely you will not realize that.

Self-realization is union of absolute into relative.

You think of the absolute as everything just happening, as is. This is not wrong by itself. But from relative experience the absolute wants to share love and happiness, or we would not have jing and jang. Love or positive things brings happiness - union and negative sadness - separation. And one with god means one with unconditional love. And unconditional love can be only possible when there is no relative point, but oneness.
This is where we defer in philosophy...

So I agree and disagree with you at the same time.

a reply to: UniFinity

You know we are all one, but you avoid to investigate completely into what this really means.

I can't understand what oneness is and neither can you, it can only be known. What is there to investigate completely?

This is my path of learning about myself and I will not argue about it or imposed it onto others.

You need to be open to the possibility that your path is wrong and is possibly filled with ego rooted expectations.

From what I can understand you have not perceived the depth of your own being (not talking about absolute, but your own conciousness or experience of it).

You're making this sound like a mysterious en devour. To experience being, is to experience this moment as it is. Directly perceiving your immediate sensations.
In meditation, this can deepen even more, but DE is all it takes to know it.
Besides, getting a glimpse of your being during meditation doesn't mean anything if it doesn't stick and if you cannot take it to the busy world. Do you understand this? You can meditate and reach profound states, stream entry or whatever. Doesn't mean anything you haven't awakened to the absolute.
Once you awaken to the absolute, then reach whatever experience you want. Not the other way around.

It only takes on moment of honest looking to know who you are truly, that is the absolute. There is no prior practice needed in order to realize this. Based on you, you need gradual practice in order to know yourself. This is true if you wan't to reach deeper states of consciousness but not if you wan't to know the absolute.
Discover the absolute first, then explore different and deeper states of consciousness all you want.

If you like reading books I reccomend Jed Mckenna. He is the biggest fool ever and has a completely non BS approach to this.
www.naturalthinker.net...

So I have to ask you one thing, what is enlightenment to you? How important is it? Is it worth waiting for if you can attain it right now?

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Itisnowagain

well this is a contradiction. But once you put it into right prospective all is clear.

From relative point we cannot silence the mind. So trying to do that will only bring failure, I know that well. I cannot do that, this is clear...
from absolute point the mind does not exists and because of that it is always in perfect silence...everything is conciousness. Until you drop everything else completely you will not realize that.

The mind is just words and language and symbols arising - they are here - no one can get rid of them. Words arising is no different from colur or sensation arising. Words are sounds - which is vibration. The absolute is vibrating to make what appears - emptiness is forming.
Nothing is everything - there cannot be just nothing - nothing is everything.

union means absolute into the relative.

The absolute and relative are not separate things that need to be stuck together or put one into the other - it is one.
Nothing appearing as everything.

But from relative experience the absolute wants to share love and happiness, or we would not have jing and jang. Love or positive things brings happiness and negative sadness. And one with god means one with unconditional love.

There is no thing that wants to share anything. There is just what there is - it is this - the unconditional arising.
If there is a condition of 'I only want love' then that 'love' is a concept - an idea - which is sought.
There is simply what there is. It is this - nothing other - it is what ever is arising (and that includes everything - not just love and happiness) - even frustration or anger or sadness. Everything is welcome because it is the UNCONDITIONAL space in which everything UNCONDITIONALLY arises.

a reply to: Andy1144

thanks for opinion!

For answer look one post above. It answers to both - you and itisnowagain.

a reply to: UniFinity

I don't understand where you disagree with him. Can you state is more clearly?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

I don't agree...unconditional love is what this is all about for me. This is why I or others do things which I enjoy because of love. This is the oil to engine and what makes word go around.

Absolute is not affected in any way whatsoever as you say, but from where we are existing - relative - Love is the only real thing important. We do everything because of it or lack of it.

and to love unconditionally that is when relative is doing everything from absolute point of view.

a reply to: Andy1144
"
You do not need to silence the mind and any trying to silence the mind will be the mind fighting for silence - seeking for it. It can be noticed that there is a quiet that is always there and thoughts are just flickers appearing and disappearing. Notice what the thoughts appear in.
"

this!

I cannot do that, but it will be natural result when union is complete. Than you do everything out of most pure felling of love. Naturally thoughts appear, but there are not my - I and non I are obliterated.

the question of subject and doer and experience is gone. Everything is one. One doer. one feeling. one bliss. one love.

originally posted by: UniFinity
a reply to: Itisnowagain
I don't agree...unconditional love is what this is all about for me.

So there is a 'you' seeking for 'unconditional love'?
Unconditional love is what there is when 'you' are no more!!
'You' being the seeking energy - seeking for some concept.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

for current me or relative me!

But that is just a motivation for dissolution...where me is gone. This should be clear if you would not be so stuck on words alone but try to get my meaning behind them...