It's time to wake up!

a reply to: UniFinity

non-self is always here and everywhere, I know it is not different from me, I am non-I right now...

Is that your actual experience or just your assumption? Asleep people can right books about this too you know even though thye haven't had the experience.

I am sorry but we will not agree here, because I am a firm believer that Buddhist or Zen and other masters were telling the truth.

They deal mostly with methods of practice and not actual truth finding. This explains why so little people awaken albeit decades of meditation and exploring OBE's, whatever.
I am saying that you can find the truth now through direct inquiry. DE doesn't mean anything unless you inquire to the nature of self. Having a DE while high or OBE'ing doesn't mean anything about realizing truth unless you see how it ties to the self.
I don't exactly what your disagreeing with. I did mention, that buddhist methods can be helpful, but are not necessary and most of the time just used as an exuse to postpone awakening. It is far more straightforward to just do the self inquiries then get it over with. After that point, you can explore what you want with even more insight into the experiences.

I have to repeat this again. Having a DE while high or altered state of consciousness is NOT equivalent to having an awakening or finding truth. Those are too very different things. DE doesn't mean anything if you don't consciously see how DE actually ties to the illusion of self.
So just because you had a state of pure unaltered consciouseness doesn't mean you found truth.

Imagine just for a second that you were the invisible gas that allows a flame to exist and you as the invisible gas is seeing what appears as the flame - the moving dancing flame - you are just seeing a light show but no thing that appears is you - it is made of you and cannot be without you but what you are is not a particular thing appearing within the flame.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

But although the content cannot define you and aren't real outside of you, the experience of those contents is real. It's a real illusion. But the illusion isn't real outside of you.

Feeling moved to help someone can be carried out without an "I". Helping just happens. Desires happens, even if it is seen everything is pointless.

Repost.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, I read it. The point is helping can happen even if there is no helper. Or it doesn't. Being concerned about your close ones well being can happen or not even without a self.

a reply to: Andy1144

After that point, you can explore what you want with even more insight into the experiences.

this!

DE is obvious to anyone who is into deep meditation for a while. This is even point of meditation, to just be and nothing else, when you manage that it all starts. I have experienced what DE is for some time now, but due to you and itisnowagain I had some doubts if we are taking about the same thing, now I know we are...but for you two this is, the end of inquiry, for me it is just the beginning, but when I meditate I do not any longer think or feel, I just am. And in this I AM ness true learning begins.

If you would watch the mahamudra video, which I provided a link to a few pages back, you would understand what I am trying to say. Their first step to even be initiated into the practice is DE!

DE is not ALL there is to our existence. Until there is relativity involved that is...relative and absolute are two. Not one. Therefore final reality is only ONE - absolute, all else is our imagination, even DE.

We are not disagreeing about what is DE and what is not! We are disagreeing about the final goal of spiritualist, which is only the absolute and nothing else. No relativity, No I, no non I - but ONE. I AM is not there any more, there are no experiences, doer, etc...complete dissolution or absorption.

So just because you had a state of pure unaltered consciouseness doesn't mean you found truth.

I did not say I did! I was high after all hahah

But it was a sneak peak of real nature or existence, where my sense of ego, body and mind were completely gone. I was not existing any more in conventional sense. Pure conciousness is something which can only be experienced after ALL else is completely gone from your mind. There must not even be a trace of I or anything else left...
I was only learning what there is in store for me with right meditation. And this was my intent from the beginning - this was my motivation for tripping. Learning without a thought or expectation. And I sure did...a lot.

originally posted by: Andy1144
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, I read it. The point is helping can happen even if there is no helper. Or it doesn't. Being concerned about your close ones well being can happen or not even without a self.

The character does what it does - it is being what it is - nothing has to change. The belief that life can be done wrong (by someone) is the misconception.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Correct, nothing is wrong and needs to be changed. Whatever is happening, is whatever is happening, it couldn't be any different. But on a relative level, we can still say it makes a difference in life to live without the illusion of self then with it. Ultimately it makes no difference because there is no self anyway, but concepts like better or worse can still be used by the character to function although it is ultimately an illusion. The character can still figure out ways to live a better life for himself or help others if he finds necessary.
We just use the language. We can still say " I will go with them, or I will help them" because it is necessary to function but ultimately it is not true.

a reply to: UniFinity

There are two kinds of truth an honest seeker will want to find. The absolute truth and the relative truth.
The absolute truth is realizing that the self is an illusion and all there is, ultimately is now. No more questions about this, no more nothing. It is the end of any question or doubt.

But just because absolute truth is the end of questioning on ONE level, this does not imply you still won't have questions about the relative world. Yes, there is much more to explore about the relative universe, but nothing about the absolute when you see it .

Now the only good ways you are going to explore and figure out the relative details is if you awaken to the absolute first. Then once you awaken to that, THEN you can explore everything with much more clarity and inspiration.

What people do is try to figure out the relative details without figuring out the absolute truth. It's really the other way around. Do not get these two mixed up.
So it is wise to cast aside all your buddhist teachings for now, and focus on that which you cannot learn, the absolute.

originally posted by: UniFinity
We are disagreeing about the final goal of spiritualist, which is only the absolute and nothing else. No relativity, No I, no non I - but ONE. I AM is not there any more, there are no experiences, doer, etc...complete dissolution or absorption.

Complete dissolution and absorption - beautiful!!
When there is direct experience - immediate sense perception - there is no you feeling something - that 'you' and 'the feeling something' collapses into pure sensing - pure being. There is seeing, there is hearing, there is simply what is happening - pure being what there is. There no longer appears to be someone seeing - seeing is simply happening, everything is just happening - everything is purely being what it is.

a reply to: Andy1144
The character appearing in the movie - the thoughts that arise, values and reactions, the sensations, will all change when the illusion has been seen through - yes.
This is a nice little discussion which may be of interest.

It discusses what I think you mean by the relative.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes, my main point was not particularly how things will change post-awakening but that desires still arise post awakening although paradoxically it is the end of all desire. It is just seen that desire is happening and that it is no more arising out of non-acceptance.

The paradox is that desires still happen even though it is seen that all desires end. Two different perspectives which contradict but are valid.

a reply to: Andy1144When you say 'desire still happens' -are you saying that 'seeking' continues? Is there 'seeking' for something else or something more?

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Seeking cannot continue. Seeing past the illusion is the end of seeking. From that point desires still happen but they aren't rooted in the ignorance of ego.

Yes, exactly, one must understand relative and absolute. But to me it seems like you are missing out on something. What you say is true. But what you are not saying is also true, and is missing from your experience.

For instance you don't say anything about prana, karama, reincarnation or other non material "things". You have no direct experience of them probably. Hey, it ok, I don't ether, for now. Except prana is not a mystery to me and I can feel it.
They are not imaginary and are true and they exists, a devotee in advanced stages can SEE karma, do levitation, or can control prana effortlessly, they can SEE thoughts as visible things and can control or send them to someone and many other spiritual powers. Read philosophy of the yogi for basic explanations...it is all in the books of old masters.

Again, this powers are not the point and are there only to deceive ego, it is a play of maya, like everything else. But when they manifest in a devotee this is a sign that he has progressed in advanced stages of spirituality.

Basically, when it all comes down to it. We are GODS, no limits whatsoever. We have all the power imaginable and even unimaginable. DE is a tool. I and non I is in the way to that...and what you call DE is the gateway.

But hey, this is okay, we are different and on different paths of life. I do not mean to get anyone on my side or something, this is only a writing of someone who is into this stuff for many years since teenage years and for me it is true to a fault, without iota of a doubt.

a reply to: UniFinity

What you say is true. But what you are not saying is also true, and is missing from your experience.

For instance you don't say anything about prana, karama, reincarnation or other non material "things". You have no direct experience of them probably. Hey, it ok, I don't ether, for now. Except prana is not a mystery to me and I can feel it.
They are not imaginary and are true and they exist

I said any other truth, like the one's you mentioned are all relative truths, not absolute truths. I just didn't get specific what the relative truths were but if you wan't to figure out the relative truths you've shown then awaken to the absolute first. Then what examples you have mentioned will become much clearer and your progress will improve.

When will you awaken to the absolute truth? How many more years or lifetimes do you think it has to take?

Now, you took the idea "prana" for example. To my knowledge there is the approach that you can go days or weeks without eating. This is a fact. During deep states of meditation you can reach states of hibernation in which breathing is all your body requires. You can call this an advanced state spirituality, I call it pointless.
There is food and water already available, these ideas about prana are in no way necessary if you wan't to learn truth, or see how integrated your realization is in reality.

True signs of advancement are when you awaken to what's true, allow everything unconditionally, and have whatever you wan't when you wan't it. The universe provides one who knows their power with unconditional abundance. That is true empowerment.

So if you want to go without eating for weeks or achieving levitation go ahead. There is just no real point in them. They aren't a true sign of spirituality, but that is your expectation of it. You think that the further you become detached from the body and reach a point where you experience no physical pain, THAT'S when you know you've reached advanced states. But know it is all not necessary.
Just because levitation may be true doesn't mean those who don't have it less spiritually advanced. You should focus more on what you mean by spiritually advanced because I am seeing some faulty expectations there.

Personally, I'd rather play soccer or have fun with my friends then levitate or whatever.
And you probably wouldn't worry about what you've mentioned if you knew that it had nothing to do with true spiritual enhancement. But that is your expectation, spirituality is your new ego for many years and your trying to keep it alive with excuses to postpone it.

What is stopping you from seeing the only and absolute truth right here and now? Simple question.

a reply to: Andy1144

nothing.

and I understand it and know it already. At least what you or itisnowagain are taking about is all clear to me. About the relative and absolute and their relation to I and non I. Clear in understanding and even in experience. But you seem not to believe me and it is ok. So be it : )

As I have said a few times, but you don't seem to understand, this is the initiation into mahamudra school. DE is basic. Look the video I provided.

No spirituality is not about what you pointed it out or about what I pointed about spiritual powers, they do not interest me at all! I have said as much, distractions...ok? But this all comes down to knowing yourself and these things are apart of all of us. And if you are missing this knowledge and experience than you do not know yourself as well as you think.

know my self in all aspects, this is spirituality. Nothing more and nothing less. Spirituality is not just about DE, this is just maybe interpretation for some of modern students of advita vedanta...look, It is awesome that you understand and experience absolute from relative point. But actually uniting with absolute it totally another matter.

Or else Jesus, Moses, Buddha, Lau tzu, other christian saints, yogis, rishis and all others masters would probably not have such an impact. Spiritual powers, knowledge, wisdom, compassion, love, they were and are symbols even today. Do you think that they experienced DE and that is it?
Main difference between us and them is only ONE!
They never give up on learning with pure motivation and honesty about themselves! Or do you think that "know thyself", like they all talk about is what you are taking about DE? be honest.

That is my opinion and it is awesome that we think differently, but do not say that I don't get it because we have different opinions, that is silly...

All is good : )

a reply to: UniFinity

Clear in understanding and even in experience. But you seem not to believe me and it is ok

I don't know what you have experienced but based on what you were saying you have not realized it. If by realize you mean just DE alone then you have but that's nothing.

But this all comes down to knowing yourself and these things are apart of all of us. And if you are missing this knowledge and experience than you do not know yourself as well as you think.

What knowledge, be more specific. Knowing yourself from the absolute is knowing who you aren't, which is a self, which I doubt you have clearly see.

I told you many times what I mean by DE. And I will say it again.

But actually uniting with absolute it totally another matter.

You say it's not all about DE. Yes it is, all these experiences are going to happen in DE.

Do you think that they experienced DE and that is it?

Ofcourse not, I told you many times that experiencing DE without consciously seeing the mechanism of the self is completely pointless. Even terrorists experience DE and it doesn't mean anything to them

I am sure you have experienced DE and have had many insightful and interesting experiences. But you must be aware and know that having a DE experience and seeing the illusion of self fall is nothing and won't do anything unless the mechanism is seen clearly to be an illusion.
If you had seen it clearly, then you would't ask me to do the inquiries or ask me what the trick was.
So how do you know you've actually experienced it clearly? If you had then the experience would be life changing completely. Typically categorized by a major insight and falling of a lot of conditioning.
How do you know your talking about something else? It's necessary to poke you in order to see the expectations you are holding, if any.

I don't know what you've experienced but I can only judge from what you've written. You still have many expectations and misinterpretations about what I mean by DE. So it won't hurt to discuss the ideas some more. Because hey, in the end of the day you could be wrong.
I can speak with certainty about one thing. That the self is an illusion. It is seen consciously.
But seeing it via OBE or '___' is nothing. Saying I have experienced and understand it through that method is NOT the same as experiencing the illusion of a self clearly. There is a major difference. Understand? Please be aware of these two major differences. I know you probably had the experience of the self falling, but if it's not seen in a way in which the mechanism isn't seen clearly, like in OBE or something, then it doesn't count.


I may sound urgent and paranoid at times, but nothing personal meant by it. I think making each other aware of our expectations is the greatest service we can do.

know my self in all aspects, this is spirituality. Nothing more and nothing less.

So what is meant by this, how do you know yourself?

Spirituality is not just about DE

No it isn't. But it is necessary in order to see the absolute truth.
I am not saying it is all about DE. I said that DE is about realizing the absolute. Then when you realize that, then you can explore the other aspects of spirituality get it? Which don't aren't directly linked to DE.
But in a sense everything is, it's a matter perspective.