Russian civilian aircraft goes off radar, reportedly crashes over Egypt

a reply to: Bramble Iceshimmer

Not everyone is Islamophobic. The middle east has some beautiful architecture, gorgeous beaches, and lots of culture, and more history than most other countries. Not every middle eastern country is a conflict nation.

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: zilebeliveunknown

Of course ISIS are in Egypt, or more specifically insurgents affiliated with ISIS.

Are we ignoring the fact that the pilot reported a technical failure and requested to land at the nearest airport?

What caused that technical failure? If one engine stopped working, that could be contaminated fuel, a bird strike, poor maintenance, or a missile. That would also be possible if two engines stopped working. Only analysis of the wreckage will say for sure.

According to Russia Today, the plane took a vertical dive:

According to Egypt's security forces, as cited by Reuters, a technical fault was to blame for the crash.

Search and rescue teams are finding bodies in a radius of up to 5km (3.1 miles) from the crash site. Approximately 150, some burnt, have been pulled out of the wreckage so far.

The sources say the aircraft took almost a vertical trajectory as it plummeted down. Large parts of the fuselage burned in the process.

Russia Today Live Update on plane crash

I'm no expert, but until all of the facts are in, I'm unwilling to rule out the possibility that this was a deliberate act, whether it be on the part of ISIS or a country that is opposed to Russian involvement in Syria. The suspicious, tin-foil hat part of me is leaning towards the latter, but I could be wrong.

Russia sent an investigative team. I hope for the families' sake they find answers soon.

Before jumping to any conclusions about what a plane can or cannot do if engine trouble I suggest reaing the comments from real pilots on AV Herald for more clarification. That website is "gold" concerning information about plane crashes, especially the comments.

Some quotes:

That a321 must have been really heavy. I remember a flight with a full a321 from ZRH to CAI with max TOW, max LW and being just able to squeeze in between the min fuel for a flight planning with good weather in CAI and decision point planning. Now SSH to LED is even 30% farther. I wonder what kind of planning they used but anyhow I think the Plane was operating really at max tow. This puts maximum strain onto the engines (of course, they are able to handle that) but also makes handling technical malfunctions more difficult.

Engine problems unlikely to result in impact from high altitude.
By Joannes Sambuccus on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 10:51Z

"Usual" kinds of engine problems experienced at high altitude (~9km) should not lead to impact. Even if both powerplants quit, Airbus can double as a soarplane very well. An A330 holds the record for silent flight, which glided over 120km to reach the Azores.

On the other hand, if an engine explosively failed shortly after pilots reported techs problem, that could lead to mid-air disintegration of the airframe, explaining why the wreckage came down in bits and pieces.

A321 crash.
By Coronado on Saturday, Oct 31st 2015 10:18Z

Good morning,

I've noticed that the A321 involved had a tailstrike when it operated for MEA in 16 November 2001.
I also eard that they found the debris field and that the A321 didn't came in one piece...we could be having something similar to what happened with China Airlines Boeing 747 B18255, that had a decompression explosion after having a tailstrike in 1980, in Hong-Kong.
Just my two cents.

originally posted by: Chadwickus
a reply to: FormOfTheLord

A lot of what-ifs there..
quote]

That was my thought exactly.

a reply to: absente

Twitter -

Agence France-Presse ‏@AFP 18m18 minutes ago

#BREAKING Islamic State group in Egypt claims it downed Russian airliner
629 retweets 68 favorites

Reports are bodies have been located up to 5km from the crash location. Also reports of burned bodies.

ETA -
Heavy - Did ISIS Shoot Down Russian Plane Flight 9268?

Where is it I read that ISIS - at least in that part of Egypt - doesn't have that capability?

I can think of someone who does.......but until all the facts are in I won't say what I am thinking.

Of course, there is a good possibility that ISIS is lying. If they come up with a video proving their claim, then that's a different story.

In the days to come if the mainstream media uses this to attack Russia, you can bet it was a false flag.

Heavy - Did ISIS Shoot Down Russian Plane Flight 9268?

The AFP is reporting that an ISIS group is claiming responsibility for the downing of Russian flight 9268 in Egypt. A statement from the group read “The soldiers of the caliphate succeeded in bringing down a Russian plane in Sinai.”

All 224 people are thought to have perished onboard Metrojet Flight 9268 which crashed 23 minutes into its journey from Egypt to Russia. The crash happened in the Sinai Peninsula.

Terrorism expert Muhanad Seloom tweeted that the claims made by ISIS were “very unlikely” to be true. Meanwhile, i24 reporter Anna Ahronheim tweets that an ISIS statement on the downing of the plane made specific references to Russian forces in Syria. She adds that no groups in the Sinai region are thought to have Man-portable air-defense systems that would be necessary to shoot down a plane from that altitude.

click link for remainder of article.


Interestingly enough Russia announced it has opened a criminal investigation into what occurred.

a reply to: Chadwickus

If this was happening to all the planes then we wouldn't have to look at it. The world would be in panic.

The atmosphere is a big place and not every part of it is in the same state as the rest. There are changes in pressure and magnetic fields everywhere in small areas. It doesn't act as one universal state.

What do u think is causing these disasters?

I'm open to any theory. Im not closed minded to dismiss anything until I've studied it to a point I can gain a decent idea of the results.

a reply to: Xcathdra

One small part of this excerpt caught my attention:

She adds that no groups in the Sinai region are thought to have Man-portable air-defense systems that would be necessary to shoot down a plane from that altitude.

Is it possible that someone provided this equipment? I can think of a few potential culprits. She said that no groups are "thought" to have this capability, meaning they cannot rule it out.

a reply to: dianajune

Who knows... ISIS is in North Africa as well as the ME so its possible they may have been able to acquire something. Lets see what turns up during the investigation.

Skynews updates

* - Black box located
* - Radar showed a vertical descent

a reply to: LibertyPD32

They are capable of taking an accident and using it against anyone they choose.

They didn't need a 'false flag' prior to this. An accident works just as well...

a reply to: Xcathdra

It's scary if true. But i have a feeling it was "just" an accident. Well there'll be examinations, so i guess we'll know soon.

Where did those Patriots go when moved out of Turkey? Makes you wonder...

Even if they had manpads, they could not have shot it down since this aircraft had reached fl310 which is to high for manpads.

originally posted by: NightFlight
Where did those Patriots go when moved out of Turkey? Makes you wonder...

not really no.

For those who dont have flightradar -

FlightRadar24

Currently air traffic over the Sinai is normal.

My thoughts go out to the families who havs lost loved ones.

I have an interest in air crashes and have researched many.

Even if all the engines stopped it would not come down as quick as it did I'm quite certain of that. Everything I have seen so far suggest the plane was not in 1 peice when it hit the ground. The fact it was an almost vertical decsent and bodies being spread over a distance of 3km+ suggest a few possible scenarios to me:

1: Stuctual failure and explosive decompression resulting in mid air break up.
2: Fire
2: A Mechanical fault in the tail of the plane
3: Mid air contact with another plane or a missile
4: Pilot Suicide (Unlikely)
5: Over weight (Unlikely as majority of passengers were female only 62 male I believe) and I also do believe the plane would come down in this fashion if it was overloaded.

I also read that it came down in quite a hostile area and ISIS have claimed responsibility (They probably would either way right). I don't think it was shot down but certainly wouldn't rule it out entirely.

So far it *seems* that ISIS have claimed this atrocity, according to Yahoo News HERE

If true, they whatever restraint Russia was using during their airstrike campaigns will be removed, I hope.

This should be very interesting to see what a truly p*ssed off Russia retaliation will look like. I can only hope it wipes out the entire lot of them. Read into that what you may...

This sudden drop indicates that this is not due to an engine problem if you ask me.