The mysterious Neolithic aerial geoglyphs of Kazakhstan

a reply to: Byrd

Skip the newborn its in Swedish, make it lamb or goat..

a reply to: diggindirt

In the old days, a few selective groups held much of the knowledge to themselves and used religion as a tool and sacrifices. Think of it as, cavemen being introduced to a clock, you fill that out with some stories.. And make a scientific approach with a mythological aspect.. Blood Moon, Solar Eclipse, Halyes Comet..

Think yourself as a kid 8000BC and you have a priest, with knowledge about basic farming, astronomy, and some simple chemistry tricks.. like clean water..
Homo sapiens are nomadic warmongers who follows a warlord.. Thats the simple basics..

If the life expectancy was 30, and someone with some knowledge could prolong it to 50.. By building a farming community.. Then you trick the less educated..

There is no difference today as it were yesterday.. Cause its the only way we know..

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: diggindirt

That's Rickymouse's theory too for these type of things.
If the good people from Cambridge University Archaeology dept and Vilnius University aren't sure, then I can promise you that my guddling about on the Steppes aren't going to bring us any closer to an answer.

Smart fellow, that mouse.

After over 60 classes taken at the university level in anthro/arch, then 25 years of teaching field techniques, most of those years digging into and around mounds in the Middle Mississippi Valley of the US, I've learned just how little we actually know about prehistoric times.

I've listened to a lot of quite famous PhD-types expound at great lengths on their various theories. However, I've noticed that most of the theories depend on a lot of faith being put in previous investigations and postulations. Trouble with that method is that the evidences presented can't be compared....on a scientific level due to the destructive nature of the discipline.

I've heard these folk speak for hours on the reasons these prehistoric peoples piled dirt up and built structures on top. From listening to all those lectures, I've come to the conclusion that it is truly anyone's guess as to why that was such a common practice and giving teenagers a way to work off their excess energy is a as good as I've heard. I would add that in the Mississippi Valley those mounds were built around a central flat area---said to be used for ballgames in historic times. Based on the reports of the early European explorers, it would seem that all work, energy and effort was in pursuit of sports.

So I ask you---has anything changed? What purpose do the monumental structures of today serve? All those huge stadiums that can be seen from the air?

a reply to: beansidhe

Plot twist. These photos are actually of Mars.

a reply to: Hyperia

I can't quite go along with your view of humanity as expressed:

Homo sapiens are nomadic warmongers who follows a warlord.. Thats the simple basics..

After spending over 25 years studying excavations of mound sites built by populations living in the Mississippi Valley of the US, I can honestly say that these people were not warmongers.

In the village where I worked there was a cemetery mound which contained some 850 people who had inhabited the site during the middle period (about AD 1175-1250) of the site's occupation as a village. After extensive forensic studies of the remains of those folks, we concluded that there was very little violence in that population. There was none of the "sacrificial" evidence seen to the north in the city now called Cahokia Mounds. And, having studied remains from sites all along the Mississippi and its tributaries, these village sites were not violent places. There simply are no mass graves that would indicate that warfare was a way of life.
That's not to say that there aren't reports from the early examinations of the burials that say the bones show signs of warfare. But upon re-examination with today's technology, those reports have been proven to be inaccurate.

The warfare myth got started, I believe, as an attempt to explain the palisades found around some of these villages.

Also, average age of death in this village was about 43 for males and about 40 for females but there was a goodly portion of both sexes who lived well into their 80s. There was no evidence of malnutrition problems in the population.

While 850 people is a small sample, our results match those of the surrounding villages where the remains have been forensically studied. The people living along the mighty Mississippi and its tributaries were a fat and happy people, hunting and fishing, tending their crops and from time to time, piling up dirt and putting a building on top of the pile.

Back on topic, we can speculate all night long on the why of these constructions, but in the end, an educated guess is the best we can do until somebody perfects that time machine. The science can tell us what happened there. Why it happened will always be up for speculation. And to me, that's half the fun of the study.

a reply to: diggindirt

I went OT on the post, semitic warlords when it was 8000BC.

And, having studied remains from sites all along the Mississippi and its tributaries, these village sites were not violent places. There simply are no mass graves that would indicate that warfare was a way of life.

You seem to forget every time a new "king" was crowned, it was on a "mountain" of corpses, try excavating under the monument building. Doesnt matter which monument you choose in the old days, it was always built on a ceremonial ground made by corpses.. Sacred ground..

Warfare wasnt a way of life...

But it always trace back to the same mythology

After extensive forensic studies of the remains of those folks, we concluded that there was very little violence in that population. There was none of the "sacrificial" evidence seen to the north in the city now called Cahokia Mounds.

Slit throat, doesnt leave a blunt force impact..

a reply to: Byrd

If you have the time, can you stop over this thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

And offer an idea to the meaning of the petroglyph I posted? It would be greatly appreciated as I'd like to find a more down to earth explanation for the depiction.

a reply to: diggindirt

Based on the reports of the early European explorers, it would seem that all work, energy and effort was in pursuit of sports. So I ask you---has anything changed? What purpose do the monumental structures of today serve? All those huge stadiums that can be seen from the air?

It's nice to hear someone say 'I don't know', since it's the only honest answer we can give! In terms of sports, the Kazakhs and Mongolians are expert horse riders and horse racers - some kind of race arena would be as good as guess as any, particularly if the 800BC dates are correct, rather than the Neolithic. I honestly don't know enough about Kazahk culture or legend to make any better estimation than that. The 'triskele' is a curious shape to see though, I am intrigued by that.
As you say, speculating is the fun part!

a reply to: beansidhe

When it comes to conspiracies, the facts arent as fun as a good mystery or the speculations.. But in my studies... Im not allowed to lay out facts if it holds no value to humanity as a whole..

Instead of explaining the mythology behind dragons with facts, i lay it out;

Maybe there was dragons and magic once.. But we forgotten our old ways, the technologies brings out the worst in all of us.. We forgotten the old ways of caring for each other, we sought immortality and forget the meaning of love.. We live our lives in realms of magic through movies and games, cause we just simply forgot...

Where i live, we just go by asking a simple question of "why" if the "why" holds no value the rest of the speculations and stories go in the trash bin.. The old ways never did anything if it wasnt of significance to the society and its evolution..

When you do research or studies, ask yourself always the same question; Why, you never do anything unless it has a purpose..

originally posted by: Hyperia
a reply to: diggindirt

I went OT on the post, semitic warlords when it was 8000BC.

"Semitic" is a language group, and it's not as old as 8000 BC - it dates to around 3400 BC

You seem to forget every time a new "king" was crowned, it was on a "mountain" of corpses, try excavating under the monument building. Doesnt matter which monument you choose in the old days, it was always built on a ceremonial ground made by corpses.. Sacred ground..

The images you post are from around 1400 AD, and from a culture that had human sacrifice. The "ceremony made by burying dead under a building" is actually European, and dates to the Dark Ages. First communities DID bury their dead underneath the floor of their houses, but that practice stopped.

King sacrifice was rumored in the case of the Celts, where a ceremonial king was killed. It's not a recorded practice elsewhere. Some cultures did have "retainer sacrifice" but usually this doesn't last long, as it tends to kill off very useful people and cause problems with rulership and governorships.

a reply to: Byrd

I cannot deny your claims in any way, those are facts.. We also use, sustainable, relevant and objective in our studies..

First practice of dead was that their bodies contained nitrogen and phosphorus which was a great fertilizer on the tundras, caves were used to store the bodies in the cold since it keeps it from decomposing. When the permafrost unfroze its top layer, to bury them in one meter of soil you could dig. The burial traditions has a function, its not a "dark age thing".

Everything they made and everything they did, had to be functional, when you create a doted square, or the celestial bodies of our solar system you create stories to make people follow its purpose. You use the myths and stories to create dogmas and you use the dogmas for survival.

In the Himalayas they practice skyburial, any resemblance to the Fenix mythology? They even found skyburial evidence dating to 11.500BC,

Its the cycle of time.

Nothing changes, you just change the name..

a reply to: Hyperia

When you do research or studies, ask yourself always the same question; Why, you never do anything unless it has a purpose..

In terms of the Kazakh earthworks, it is nearly impossible to understand the purpose as we don't know the dates. They could be Neolithic, but then they could be 800 BC instead. It is easier if the 'when' comes before the 'why'!
But yes, these earthworks had a purpose and therefore meaning. Maybe astronomy, like the Scots and the Irish and the Britons, maybe sports like the South Americans and the Americans or maybe shamanic pleas to the gods.
The facts are sometimes more fun than idle speculating, because then you can have a real sense of closeness with your ancestors.

Recently, in a similar thread, some of us talked about a very old Scottish story called the 'Stoorworm', and it is likely there are Scandinavian equivalents. Understanding that maybe this story was ancient, and was maybe describing a meteor hitting land helps to make sense of the people before us. They weren't simple people who told stories for fun around a campfire, they told stories to pass along important survival information.
In other words, yes these mounds had meaning but we must be careful not to ascribe our meanings to them. For me, it would be easy to leap on the 'triskele' and the fact that some earthworks were surrounded by a moat and jump to the conclusion that all Neolithic people were in contact and had a shared, global belief system. I mean, these people were proto-Scythians, no? So very easy to make Celtic connections.

The publicity that Nasa has brought to these geoglyphs can only be good news and hopefully they will attract further studies.

a reply to: beansidhe

could you link NASA =)

a reply to: Hyperia

Nasa have recently come on board to help and have now released their latest pictures of the earthworks.

Which came from here. Did you read the OP?

a reply to: beansidhe

Im gonna try to portray it like somewhat awkward..

In my imagination and dreams there was a race called the dark ones, they moved silently through times, giving away small secrets to humans, but never to much, just enough for them to cling onto the need for survival.. So they choose a king among the humans, but the king had to show his righteousness. So they built an arena for all the men in the land to fight in, and the winner would be given the thorn crown with a scepter to rule..
As time passed kingdoms fell and kingdoms rised, just like the sun. But you could always follow the trace, until one winters day it stopped in the hills of Scotland..

Only to rise with an unrighteous name on that christmas day centuries ago.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: Hyperia

Nasa have recently come on board to help and have now released their latest pictures of the earthworks.

Which came from here. Did you read the OP?

I meant the original link to their site

a reply to: Hyperia

Oh I see, apologies!
I'm not seeing them, maybe you will have more luck finding them:

NASA images

Interesting find. I don't think they are geoglyphs but built for a purpose. My guess is looking at the size, location, and age between 3000-8000 years ago they were used to control wild herds of animals. The five different shapes may of been the most effective. The cross looks like it could bottle neck a herd making them slow down and safer to hunt. The square and cross could of been like a trap the heard enters to graze then the hunters could control the animals in the area.
It just seems likely the neolithic people would try to control the herds to there advantage.
Kazakhstan is a likely place the wild horse was domesticated around 5000 years ago. These may have been used to catch the first ones.

a reply to: beansidhe

I know, though the link explains that the circled star is older than the modern satanic use of it.

a reply to: d8track

Could you elaborate? Cause im missing the picture here..