There never has been a Christian nation

a reply to: Gryphon66

Had something to do with the whole "be in the world but not of the world" thingy.

Hey Gryph, thank you for the link.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

You sure do love semantics don't you? It seems like it always boils down to semantics when you're part of the discussion.

originally posted by: randyvs
I don't know, I didn't realise I'd be advocating socialism.
I'm ready to bail out of every humanitarian thought I've
ever had now. Naaaaah, what may seem like socialism
under a democracy is still democracy. Even if it has to
barrow from socialism for humanitarian reasons. No?

Agree 100%! Democratic Socialism (Which is what Bernie Sanders advocates) insures that people are taken care of, but gives the people control over the steps taken, through their vote.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Gryphon66

Had something to do with the whole "be in the world but not of the world" thingy.

Hey Gryph, thank you for the link.

No worries, I thought you'd like to know! Best.

I think it's great!! I don't believe helping or eradicating homelessness is a Republican/Democrat/Christian/Atheist belief. It's a human being belief. Utah has found a solution that appears to work for them. I'm sure there are other segments of the country this could benefit as well and I hope it gets implemented there. Tiny homes and/or 3D printed homes are appealing for so many reasons.

originally posted by: Freeborn

a reply to: Krazysh0t

Anyone who has even a basic knowledge of The New Testament and political ideology must surely recognise numerous socialist elements to Jesus's teachings.

I have no argument here. I just wanted to make it clear that the OP was talking about Socialism.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

You sure do love semantics don't you? It seems like it always boils down to semantics when you're part of the discussion.

Yes I love semantics, and I love truth. I see a growing trend of falsifying and lying here on ATS.

There's outright lying, there's intentional misstatement, there's unrealized biases, there's statements of ignorance and statements of intentional ignorance at ATS.

There's also a lot of unique perspectives, challenging differences, intense passionate statements of belief and/or understanding.

Not surprisingly, ATS is a microcosm of our larger culture.

a reply to: randyvs

I understand the point you're making. But I feel compelled to remind you that there are more than 30,000 denominations of Christianity. In other words, there are more than 30,000 different interpretations of what it means to be "Christian". So there definitely been "Christian nations".

The white supremacist KKK considers it a Christian organization. The Lord's Resistance Army considers itself a Christian organization, too. The Puritans considered themselves Christians even though they were slave owners & believed in grueling labor for the poor. And the conquistadors considered themselves Christians when they were doing wholesale slaughter of non-Christians.

Perhaps you meant "There never has been a Jesuism or Essene nation"? Jesuism strictly follows the Gospels & teachings of the Prophet Jesus. And the Essenes were the various sects that followed the Prophet Jesus's teachings before the Messianic Jews co-opted him & turned his teachings into "Judaism for the Gentiles".

Then there's the "Social Gospel", "Social Justice", and "Christian Socialism". Those are political ideologies that use the Gospels as sources of public policy. Many left wing Latin American governments & political parties fit in this category. For example, I think it's in Argentina's Constitution that Christianity is its official religion.

I guess I just don't want you to look at the aggressive or stingy denominations & think they speak for all of the denominations. I'm not a Christian but I have tremendous respect for anyone who tries to help others. And there are plenty of Christian organizations, political parties, and government administrations that actually promote the Gospels.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

I have no argument here. I just wanted to make it clear that the OP was talking about Socialism.

And promptly correct you were in pointing that out Shot. Because I
truly hadn't even considered it.

But I would be glad to lend my skills to this cause once a month.
And if enough people pitched in, in like manner. Then the state
pays for almost nothing and just manages the remedy and provides
inspections the same way it always does. Surly that would suffice.

I've always thought it to be wrong for a man to be made a slave to
the roof over his head for thirty to forty years any way. If he pays
it off at all, it's just before he croaks. What kind of sh!t is that?
This whole system man has made can go straight in the toilet if
you ask me.

a reply to: randyvs

Enough people pitching in would be the better part of a city. Housing the homeless, renovating the homes to live in, and making sure they stay up to date is a full time job for just one house, let alone a whole city of homeless houses. True, if enough pitch in it would completely negate government costs, but how realistic do you think it would be to reach that quota?

a reply to: enlightenedservant

I guess I just don't want you to look at the aggressive or stingy denominations & think they speak for all of the denominations. I'm not a Christian but I have tremendous respect for anyone who tries to help others. And there are plenty of Christian organizations, political parties, and government administrations that actually promote the Gospels.

Well it sounds like you know what you're talk'n about. I had
no idea about argentina. And you're also correct that in my view
of any nation being a Christian nation. It would certainly have to
model the teachings of Christ in it's law making and daily business.
Not to mention elected officials should all be believers for a nation
to be considered a truly Christian nation. But that's just my view
and nothing for anyone to hate on Randy about.

Pure speculation peeps. Please avoid drift.

( back peddles two steps and then side steps
quickly behind curtain. Enter penguin with top hat and cain )

a reply to: Krazysh0t

True, if enough pitch in it would completely negate government costs, but how realistic do you think it would be to reach that quota?

I have know idea but you know what comes next?

You never know until you try.

And did you see the size of the houses?

They aren't much and it is pretty much commune style living.

It just seems right to give these people a place to be and
somewhere they can operate from until they can better
themselves. Hopefully that is, but without requirements that
some surely couldn't meet anyway.

a reply to: LesMisanthrope

I wasn't lying though, the extreme Conservative right is against welfare and helping those who are in need, they're against universal healthcare because it's "socialist" even though our police, schools, and fire department are "socialist" in nature.

The extreme Conservative right is predominately Christian. I was only pointing out the hypocrisy of their views and the views of the man-God they claim to worship. Jesus was all about helping the needy and feeding the hungry free of charge, the extreme right wants none of that, they are all about "fend for yourself".

Hey randy,

This is a great thread - and I'm very proud of you. FWIW.

a reply to: BuzzyWigs

Oh my gosh that's so sweet!

originally posted by: BuzzyWigs
Hey randy,

This is a great thread - and I'm very proud of you. FWIW.

Ditto. Really mean it.

This program could be a huge part of the answer to our homeless veterans.

The story of how Utah solved chronic homelessness begins in 2003, inside a cavernous Las Vegas banquet hall populated by droves of suits. The problem at hand was seemingly intractable. The number of chronic homeless had surged since the early 1970s. And related costs were soaring. A University of Pennsylvania study had just showed New York City was dropping a staggering $40,500 in annual costs on every homeless person with mental problems, who account for many of the chronically homeless. So that day, as officials spit-balled ideas, a social researcher named Sam Tsemberis stood to deliver what he framed as a surprisingly simple, cost-effective method of ending chronic homelessness.

Give homes to the homeless.

Source

Meet Sam Tsemberis. According to academics and advocates, he’s all but solved chronic homelessness. His research, which commands the support of most scholars, has inspired policies across the nation, as well as in the District. The results have been staggering. Late last month, Utah, the latest laboratory for Tsemberis’s’s models, reported it has nearly eradicated chronic homelessness. Phoenix, an earlier test case, eliminated chronic homelessness among veterans. Then New Orleans housed every homeless veteran.

Source

This is just a very hopeful and wonderful idea!

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I don't know you well enough to say you're a liar. I only said you neglected to mention the extreme part. Equating "the right" or conservatism with "the extreme right" is untenable. Whether you left that part out purposefully or not, like other members seem to do, is not my concern.

I don't think its true that because the right doesn't want socialism, they are essentially telling people to fend for themselves. It's like me saying that those who favor socialism want the government to care for the poor, because they themselves are unwilling to do so, which very well might be the case.

Thirding the comments above about the value and objectivity of your thread, Randyvs!

It's been a joy to read and participate in thus far; thank you for bringing this to our attention!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

This program could be a huge part of the answer to our homeless veterans.

Now there's a great thought that deserves an applause.