How the Deceptive Videos Attacking Planned Parenthood Are Hindering Cures for Deadly Diseases

a reply to: incoserv

Ahhh, I see. So a woman has the right to control her own body... until you decide she doesn't. Got it. I assume, to be consistent, that even if carrying the baby to term would end the woman's life, you won't allow her to terminate the pregnancy. Whatever you say, massah.

a reply to: introvert

Agreed with your overall take on abortion, but some women may be swayed toward abortion by the "justification" of their aborted child not dying in vain because the fetal tissue will be used in medical research. Similarly many people in the South were personally against slavery but aided in it's continuation nonetheless - out of convenience since ending it meant changing everything. Just as ending abortion would change this industry.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: incoserv

use their skin to make lampshades

This is false and an old myth.

A woman has a right to control her own body. If she does not want a baby, she has the right to either exercise effective birth control or to keep her legs closed. Once she has conceived that baby, another human being's rights come into the equation and her rights end where that new human being's rights begin.

The Supreme Court ruled on this many years ago and their decision disagrees with you.

Oops! I guess if the lampshade thing is false, that destroys my entire argument!

So, the Supreme Court said it's ok? That's nice. The Third Reich said that using people to do medical and scientific experiments was OK, too. I guess if a government says something is legal and right, that makes it legal and right.

The government of Saudi Arabia says it's legal and right to beat women for driving, to behead people in the streets, to forbid idividuals from adopting or holding beliefs that are not in accord with what the government considers right. That makes it ok?

Hell, ISIS is setting up a caliphate in the Middle East and once they control an area and impose their law over it, they go around chopping the heads off of people who don't agree with them. By your reasoning, how dare we say that this is wrong?

originally posted by: incoserv

The point of the OP is that abortion is justifiable because some claim that a by-product of it is the acquisition of materials for medical and scientific research and that somehow there is an equation that balances out the killing of these babies (not un-viable masses of tissue, but real living human beings) with that fact. This is what I am countering. Let's keep on topic.

The point of the OP is NOT that abortion is justifiable. The point of the OP is that abortion is legal, and if a woman has a LEGAL abortion and wants to donate the fetus to medical research (which is also legal), this is a way to salvage a very sad situation and do some good for mankind. To try and stop medical research will only hurt us all.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: incoserv

Ahhh, I see. So a woman has the right to control her own body... until you decide she doesn't. Got it. I assume, to be consistent, that even if carrying the baby to term would end the woman's life, you won't allow her to terminate the pregnancy. Whatever you say, massah.

First, The woman herself decide to conceive, I didn't. It's called accepting responsibility.

Second, making assumptions that go way beyond the scope of this conversation and what I have said. That is an attempt to derail the conversation. Not useful.

And, please refrain from attempting to counter my arguments by attacking me personally ("Whatever you say, massah.") I really makes you look desperate.

a reply to: Krazysh0t

We haven't found a single cure for a disease in over half a century, but now anti-abortionists are to blame? There's no money in cures..,,these studies are even about how much funding they can get.

originally posted by: kaylaluv
The point of the OP is NOT that abortion is justifiable. The point of the OP is that abortion is legal, and if a woman has a LEGAL abortion and wants to donate the fetus to medical research (which is also legal), this is a way to salvage a very sad situation and do some good for mankind. To try and stop medical research will only hurt us all.

The point of my reply is that the concentration camps were "legal."

Being recognized as legal by a system of government does not make it right, does not make it morally acceptable.

If Germany had won the second world war, we'd likely have soon been exterminating Jews, homosexuals, and the handicapped on American soil. It would have been "legal," but would it have been right or acceptable?

the Holocaust occurred during a time when resources were scarce and the people were unhappy and needed someone to blame.... for many of the same reasons that we see around us today, the debt of a war, a scam perpetrated by the big bankers, ect. the jews were easy targets as scapegoats, heck, they'd been the targets for centuries. there were also some pretty wealthy ones in europe, who by the way were big bankers which made them great scapegoats. by interning them, the nazis managed to seize their wealth, and well, ensure the rest of the population had the resources they needed to survive.
We basically did the same thing but not to such an extreme with the japanese.

Wars are often used for population control when needed, as well was concentration camps.
I see voluntary abortion as an alternative... and I also see it as much more humane, if you want to compare the two!!!

originally posted by: dawnstar
Wars are often used for population control when needed, as well was concentration camps. I see voluntary abortion as an alternative... and I also see it as much more humane, if you want to compare the two!!!

To borrow from a popular meme:

Said no aborted person ever.

Oh, wait ... that's because they're all dead.

a reply to: incoserv
89% of abortions are done in the first 12 weeks of the pregnancy... these "babies" weigh about 1/2 ounces, they are not developed enough probably to be physically able to say anything, they haven't developed any emotional bonds with their parents or their siblings, they haven't learned what it means to be responsible for another person or group, heck they probably can't even comprehend that they have lost anything if they are aborted!

heck it's a far cry from the fear someone would feel having their family gathered up, put into death camps, watch loved ones get shot down, be experimented on, gased out of existence, their children crying in hunger, ect.!!!

I'm just saying that it's a more humane way of population control than some of the other methods that have been used throughout the centuries!!

originally posted by: incoserv

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: incoserv

use their skin to make lampshades

This is false and an old myth.

A woman has a right to control her own body. If she does not want a baby, she has the right to either exercise effective birth control or to keep her legs closed. Once she has conceived that baby, another human being's rights come into the equation and her rights end where that new human being's rights begin.

The Supreme Court ruled on this many years ago and their decision disagrees with you.

Oops! I guess if the lampshade thing is false, that destroys my entire argument!

So, the Supreme Court said it's ok? That's nice. The Third Reich said that using people to do medical and scientific experiments was OK, too. I guess if a government says something is legal and right, that makes it legal and right.

The government of Saudi Arabia says it's legal and right to beat women for driving, to behead people in the streets, to forbid idividuals from adopting or holding beliefs that are not in accord with what the government considers right. That makes it ok?

Hell, ISIS is setting up a caliphate in the Middle East and once they control an area and impose their law over it, they go around chopping the heads off of people who don't agree with them. By your reasoning, how dare we say that this is wrong?

All the examples you listed do not come close to being comparable to abortion. All of those things are forced upon people. Abortion is a choice the indivudual makes on their own.

Banning abortion would be comparable to those examples as it forces women to adhere to the "morality" set forth by the government.

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: incoserv

use their skin to make lampshades

This is false and an old myth.

A woman has a right to control her own body. If she does not want a baby, she has the right to either exercise effective birth control or to keep her legs closed. Once she has conceived that baby, another human being's rights come into the equation and her rights end where that new human being's rights begin.

The Supreme Court ruled on this many years ago and their decision disagrees with you.

The right to abortion only extends until the fetus is viable. If some of what I've heard is true and some were kicking and screaming...

Kicking and screaming is viable.

Facts are PP never did anything illegal

Fact is the videos where edited to provoke a reaction by the viewer.

Now we have people comparing abortions to nazy germany.


Repeat after me, an abortion is a legal medical procedure, decided by a women and her doctor.

a reply to: incoserv

Owning a gun in America is legal too, does that make it right? Just because there's something about it in the Constitution, does that make it right?

Being able to defend yourself is supposed to be a human right, but you have to be a fully developed human to deserve it. An 8-week-old embryo is not a fully developed human (yet), therefore it does not have the same rights as a living, breathing woman.

That is why the Supreme Court ruled against making abortion a crime against the woman, until the fetus becomes a fully developed human on its own. Until the fetus is viable, with its own rights, the rights of the woman reigns supreme.

a reply to: XTexan

What you heard is not true.

a reply to: XTexan

If some of what I've heard is true and some were kicking and screaming...

Kicking and screaming is viable.

Wouldn't it be wise to find out if that is true or not before forming an opinion?

originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: XTexan

If some of what I've heard is true and some were kicking and screaming...

Kicking and screaming is viable.

Wouldn't it be wise to find out if that is true or not before forming an opinion?

Yes it would be, however I don't see an end to that debate anytime soon. If some hard evidence one way or the other I'll look into it.

I do oppose public funding of planned parenthood, but for purely fiscal reasons.

a reply to: XTexan

Yes it would be, however I don't see an end to that debate anytime soon. If some hard evidence one way or the other I'll look into it.

There is plenty of information that can be found on the abortion issue. That would include statistics on how often it occurs, under what circumstances, etc. Info is out there, but it requires an effort on your part to search for the truth.

I do oppose public funding of planned parenthood, but for purely fiscal reasons.

I have no problem with PP receiving funds for the services they provide. Especially since the funds cannot be used to pay for abortions.

a reply to: XTexan

I do oppose public funding of planned parenthood, but for purely fiscal reasons.

I'm curious. Do you oppose funding Planned Parenthood or Title X

Title X is the only federal grant program dedicated solely to providing individuals with comprehensive family planning and related preventive health services.

Family planning centers offer a broad range of FDA-approved contraceptive methods and related counseling; as well as breast and cervical cancer screening; pregnancy testing and counseling; screening and treatment for sexually transmitted infections (STIs); HIV testing; and other patient education and referrals.

In the end it comes down to this... some women whether it's legal or not, will abort an unwanted pregnancy. Women always have and always will, other animal species do it as well or they will kill the young upon birth. Should women once again be denied liberty over their own bodies and lives? No. Something good may as well come from a horrible situation.