The Decline of Ufology: Decades of Fraud, Frustration and Failure?

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

And yet people still humor the religious.

That is because religions, with all their flaws, fulfill important social functions. They can unify a community and provide individuals with material aid and emotional comfort. Many UFO fans do treat UFOlogy as a sort of religion; that's fine. UFO conventions can provide socialization, and a belief in "cosmic harmony" (or whatever) can provide a certain amount of comfort. The problem is that, just as there are shady evangelists who take advantage of the religiously inclined, so there are charlatans who take advantage of the Extraterrestrial Believers. Note that both religion and the UFO cargo cult are based on faith, not "mountains of evidence."

a reply to: DJW001
Interesting.

Do any "UFOlogy" groups do philanthropic work?

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

I recognize another distinct familiar whiff.

The combination of patchouli and body odor?

I should probably preface this again: While I may believe that there is some shady stuff going on, and that several of the UFO phenomena do constitute something that seems alien, I am someone who advocates pursuit of the unbiased truth, and I would appreciate it if you'd stop using "believer" like an insult.

a reply to: moebius

Well, yes, that is what they do. Maybe they aren't hiding aliens, but they definitely hide the truth. Whatever it is.

I actually agree with you.

a reply to: draknoir2

It was once said that the difference between an intelligent man and a fool is that the intelligent man is far better at defending his erroneously obtained viewpoint.

What? Yes, of course not all UFOs are ETH. (Not sure what the H stands for by the way, I'll just assume it means "Hovercraft".)
What is (weak) evidence that points towards ETH are the reliable witness testimonies describing something in the sky doing maneuvers no (declassified) human aircraft is capable of. It could also indicate something like freak weather conditions, however, but I believe that those are equally worthy of study and investigation.

a reply to: Ectoplasm8

Wait, what? I don't follow the logic here. Because it's impossible to prove God, religion somehow gets a free pass?
The first point is no different than Steven Greer claiming he talks to aliens all the time.
The second point is no different than all the people visiting places like Area 51.
The third point, while there may not be quite so many people, is also reflected likewise with many people believing in extraterrestrial spacecraft in hope for answers that they otherwise couldn't find.

All the fairly reliable witnesses, for one. Events like the Belgium Wave. Now, please don't accidentally straw man me, because while I do believe extraterrestrial spacecraft have visited Earth, I don't believe that it has been conclusively proven as fact. There is, however, more than "No" evidence pointing in that direction. It's not very strong though, true.

Just ignore all the documented UFO cover ups, why don't you. My point isn't meant to be that powerful people are covering up aliens specifically though sadly that's what I've ended up arguing for some reason, but they are covering up something when it comes to UFOs. I don't think you can deny that.

No, that's what I would consider overwhelming evidence. I take my adjectives very seriously. A piece of crazy tech on a smaller scale, like super batteries or something, could still be written off as some ridiculous black project, so I wouldn't consider it overwhelming unless all of the planet's governments said they had nothing to do with it.
That's why I asked you. Because I don't know what it would be for you.

Presumably they would have evidence.

All i have to say is ufology nowadays is about as dull as dish water!

There is nothing apart from blurry dots of lights on a youtube video,
or second hand reports from pilots on mufon

THATS IT!

In this day and age 70 years on from roswell there is still nothing!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DJW001
Interesting.

Do any "UFOlogy" groups do philanthropic work?

Actually a few years back here in the UK i was trying to join a UFO group and most numbers that i called (of groups i found on the net), have said they closed down to sheer lack of interest!

originally posted by: Thecakeisalie
a reply to: mirageman
.

If ufology is to succeed, it needs to go back to it's grass roots. Correspondence is a good start. Instead of posting a photo online and asking 'is this a UFO?' maybe get in contact with MUFON or another organization and give your story and the details, no matter how pedantic they seem.

'Do you live near an airport or a flight path? how fast to you think the UFO was traveling? how did it move? did you see any other aircraft? did your neighbors see anything?'

The internet brings out the best and worst in us and ufology is no exception.

Oh great another witness testimony, accompanied by a diagram no doubt -
thats all we need, another boring dull written testimony - no pictures, no videos no solid proof NOTHING!

They do have advanced technology which they mostly use for weapons. Horrible nasty stuff where they do experiments and torture folks to test them on. They don't want anyone snooping around and whistleblowing. So govt made up UFOs to then be able to make anyone who looks into these secret bases look crazy. There are a few old school hippies still around who protest against drone warfare. The govt doesn't want that spreading to a lot of people. If it did they would just crush the protests but they use psyops like UFOology to solve the problem before it ever reaches that point.

a reply to: lamplighters

In this day and age 70 years on from roswell there is still nothing!

Actually, saucer-shaped flying objects were reported over Japan in 1133 AD and triangular-shaped UFOs were reported during the 1800's.

As far as Roswell is concern, the incident involved extraterrestrials. All of the Air Force's cover stories have been debunked because there was no such thing as Project Mogul balloon train flight #4 and test dummy operations did not begin until the 1950's, years after Roswell nor were they conducted anywhere near the Foster ranch.

a reply to: HorusChrist

They don't want anyone snooping around and whistleblowing. So govt made up UFOs to then be able to make anyone who looks into these secret bases look crazy.

Actually, the U.S.Air Force had admitted in its 1948 Project Sign, EOTS, ATIC, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH, that the saucers in question were, in the Air Force's own words, "Interplanetary Spaceships."

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

All the fairly reliable witnesses, for one. Events like the Belgium Wave. Now, please don't accidentally straw man me, because while I do believe extraterrestrial spacecraft have visited Earth, I don't believe that it has been conclusively proven as fact.

Your posts raise some excellent points, I enjoy reading what you write. Do not be discouraged by the responses you get, and don't take them seriously, you're certainly on the right track.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: HorusChrist

They don't want anyone snooping around and whistleblowing. So govt made up UFOs to then be able to make anyone who looks into these secret bases look crazy.

Actually, the U.S.Air Force had admitted in its 1948 Project Sign, EOTS, ATIC, Wright-Patterson AFB, OH, that the saucers in question were, in the Air Force's own words, "Interplanetary Spaceships."

Absolutely, skyeagle, what you say is fact.
The Air Force did indeed state that these vehicles are interplanetary spaceships.
It's good to see someone else in here who actually knows what they are talking about.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Hovercraft... Hypothesis... Six of one...




"Reliable" is a subjective term.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: DJW001
Interesting.

Do any "UFOlogy" groups do philanthropic work?

I believe the Raelians dabble in anti-war, pro-feminism activism if that counts.

And cloning.

originally posted by: skyeagle409
a reply to: lamplighters

In this day and age 70 years on from roswell there is still nothing!

Actually, saucer-shaped flying objects were reported over Japan in 1133 AD and triangular-shaped UFOs were reported during the 1800's.

As far as Roswell is concern, the incident involved extraterrestrials. All of the Air Force's cover stories have been debunked because there was no such thing as Project Mogul balloon train flight #4 and test dummy operations did not begin until the 1950's, years after Roswell nor were they conducted anywhere near the Foster ranch.

This is clearly the case, the evidence is overwhelming, of course it was aliens. And you're right, all the cover-stories were absurd and rather easily debunked. And they were bunk, in the truest sense of the word.

They didn't drop test dummies until 1953. Roswell was 1947. End of story, it rules out even the possibility that test dummies were mistaken for alien bodies. Seriously, how stupid do they think we are?

This was the 509th bomb group, for Pete's sake!
These are the men that dropped the Atomic bombs on Japan, both the Enola Gay and Bock's Car were the 509th.
These men were the best of the best, that's why they were trusted with winning the war in the Pacific.
They were sharp as they come, and it is absolutely laughable to claim they couldn't tell the difference between test dummies and alien bodies.

It would take a fool of a very high order to believe that the 509th mistook alien bodies (and one LIVING alien!) for test dummies. Let alone test dummies that didn't even exist yet.

a reply to: draknoir2

Eh, close enough.
Hovercraft fits... Sort of.

Yes, definitely. So is "Reality."

Really, I've got to say, what always raises my hackles and makes me think that there really is something to several of these stories is how obviously the OS is a cover-up (see also: 9/11). Now, I'm not saying the answer is "Aliens", but if it's not Aliens... What the hell is it? Something worth finding out. That, I am sure of.

originally posted by: Eilasvaleleyn
a reply to: draknoir2

Eh, close enough.

Hovercraft fits... Sort of.

Yes, definitely. So is "Reality."

Really, I've got to say, what always raises my hackles and makes me think that there really is something to several of these stories is how obviously the OS is a cover-up. Now, I'm not saying the answer is "Aliens", but if it's not Aliens... What the hell is it? Something worth finding out. That, I am sure of.

Classified military projects, most likely.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Ones that are still classified 77 years later? The tech should be obsolete. Speaking specifically of Roswell, I guess it's possible it was a false flag operation, but even then, with the Cold War over you'd think they might have decided to come clean. (Plus, there's similar stuff in other countries as well.)

Yes, the wreckage of the WTC was a classified military project and that's why it was shipped to China, but I digress.

I dislike all this "classified" stuff. Generally speaking, anything classified tends to be something you wouldn't want to exist if you knew what it was. Some things make sense, when they genuinely pertain to "National Security" (for once ever) like the President's itinerary or something, but research into things like Pyschic potential? Come on, the results of that sort of stuff could have ridiculously large ramifications for the species if it comes up positive. But nope, classified.

God, humans suck. It's always for killing each other, it's all for whatever has the most destructive power. They chose to develop Uranium over Thorium because Thorium couldn't be turned into a weapon.

a reply to: Eilasvaleleyn

Ones that are still classified 77 years later? The tech should be obsolete. Speaking specifically of Roswell, I guess it's possible it was a false flag operation, but even then, with the Cold War over you'd think they might have decided to come clean.

Actually, Roswell was the real thing. After an extensive investigation, I found that the Air Force lied about Project Mogul and test dummies and accident victims of the 1950's to explain the alien bodies they found in 1947. In fact, I found that Project Mogul wasn't classified at all and that Project Mogul balloon scientist had reported that they too, have tracked flying saucers. Check it out.

HOW SCIENTISTS TRACKED A FLYING SAUCER
by
Commander Robert B. McLaughlin, USN

In its January issue TRUE said that the flying saucers are real and interplanetary. Its story was widely supported by the nation's press and radio. TRUE's findings are here confirmed by Commander McLaughlin, a rocket expert at White Sands Proving Ground, who worked independently of this magazine's investigation.

He reveals how a troup of Navy men and scientists tracked a flying disk with a precision instrument and tells of flights he and others witnessed.

www.nicap.org...

The Air Force has used Roswell debunker and head of Project Mogul, Charles Moore, in an effort to debunk the Roswell Incident, but what the Air Force didn't say in its 1994 and 1997 Roswell Reports is that Charles Moore himself, had reported tracking a flying saucer. You can read all about it here.

LIFE Magazine, April 7, 1952
There is a case for Interplantary saucers

INCIDENT 3

On April 24,1949 at 10:20 a.m., a group of five technicians under the general supervision of J. Gordon Vaeth, an aeronautical engineer employed by the Office of Naval Research, were preparing to launch a Skyhook balloon near Arrey, N. Mex. A small balloon was sent up first to check the weather. Charles B. Moore Jr., an aerologist of General Mills Inc. (pioneers in cosmic ray research) was tracking the weather balloon through a theodolite -- a 25-power telescopic instrument, which gives degrees of azimuth and elevation (horizontal and vertical position) for any object it is sighted on. At 10:30 a.m. Moore leaned back from the theodolite to glance at the balloon with his naked eye. Suddenly he saw a whitish elliptical object, apparently much higher than the balloon, and moving, in the opposite direction. At once he picked the object up in his theodolite at 45 degrees of elevation and 210 degrees of azimuth, and tracked it east at the phenomenal rate of 5 degrees of azimuth-change per second as it dropped swiftly to an elevation of 25 degrees. The object appeared to be an ellipsoid roughly two and a half times as long as it was wide. Suddenly it swung abruptly upward and rushed out of sight in a few seconds. Moore had tracked it for about 60 seconds altogether. The other members of his crew confirmed his report. No sound was heard, no vapor trail was seen. The object, according to rough estimations by Moore and his colleagues, was about 56 miles above the earth, 100 feet long and was traveling at seven miles per second.

www.nicap.org...

We can also take a look here. Speaking of the Roswell weather balloon.

Inflatable Spacecraft

wordlesstech.com...

And the exotic properties fitting the description of the Roswell debris.

The Right Stuff for Super Spaceships

Tomorrow's spacecraft will be built using advanced materials with mind-boggling properties

science.nasa.gov...


"Rubber Metal"

"Smart skin" holds promise for morphing wings and wearable computers.

roswellproof.homestead.com...

Why all of the secrecy surrounding UFOs? The following 1960 report to NASA and the panic of 1938 could perhaps explain why.

Brookings Report, 1960

SPACE-LIFE REPORT COULD BE SHOCK, UFOI
Vol. I, No. II (Dec 1960 - Jan 1961 issue)

The discovery of intelligent space beings could have a severe effect on the public, according to a research report released by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. The report warned that America should prepare to meet the psychological impact of such a revelation.

The 190-page report was the result of a $96,000 one-year study conducted by the Brookings Institution for NASA's long-range study committee.

Public realization that intelligent beings live on other planets could bring about profound changes, or even the collapse of our civilization, the research report stated.


Panic of 1938: The "War of the Worlds" Broadcast

New York Times
October 31, 1938

"A wave of mass hysteria seized thousands of radio listeners between 8:15 and 9:30 o'clock last night when a broadcast of a dramatization of H. G. Wells's fantasy, "The War of the Worlds," led thousands to believe that an interplanetary conflict had started with invading Martians spreading wide death and destruction in New Jersey and New York."

"The broadcast, which disrupted households, interrupted religious services, created traffic jams and clogged communications systems, was made by Orson Welles, who as the radio character, "The Shadow," used to give "the creeps" to countless child listeners. This time at least a score of adults required medical treatment for shock and hysteria."

www.historylink.org...

BTW, were you aware that in 1958, flying saucer reality was about to be revealed on Live TV? That's right, in January 1958, that reality was about to be revealed to the whole world, but at the last moment, the audio of the CBS Armstrong Circle Star Theater was cut. When CBS was asked why they cut the audio, their reply was: "It was done in the interest of national security."

Yes, the wreckage of the WTC was a classified military project and that's why it was shipped to China, but I digress.

Actually, some of the WTC steel was used in the construction of the USS New York, and I once posed with a WTC steel beam in Rio Vista, CA.

a reply to: AdmireTheDistance

Classified military projects, most likely.

The Air Force doesn't cover its classified projects with UFOs.

The name of the game is to deflect public attention away from a classified site, not bring in the eyes of the whole world to a classified site that is suppose to be a secret in the first place. Reporting that a classified site is a secret is because an alien flying saucer landed there, is not going to be kept a secret for very long when that story hits the news wires.

Let's take a look at this report from the Air Force in California shortly after the Air Force reported the recovery of a flying saucer in New Mexico.

MUROC AFB INCIDENT, CALIFORNIA
July 8, 1947

Series of sightings over MUROC AFB and Rogers Dry Lake, secret test base, California:

Morning: Two spherical or disc-like UFOs joined by a third object. (XII)
Crew of technicians saw white-aluminum UFO with distinct oval outline descending,
moving against wind, (II).
Afternoon: Thin "metallic" UFO climbed, dove, oscillated over field, also seen by test pilot in vicinity.
(XII)
F-51 pilot watched a flat object "of light-reflecting nature" pass above his plane. No
known aircraft were in the area. (XII)

Section II: Technicians at Secret Test Base Observe Mechanical UFO
At Muroc AFB (now Edwards AFB) and adjacent Rogers Dry Lake, scientists and engineers test and develop the latest aircraft, including secret projects. Althoroughly familiar with anything that flies, the base technical personnel had no explanation for the UFOs which maneuvered over the area July 8, 1947. Twice that morning, disc-shaped objects were observed cavorting overhead. Then about 11:50 AM, a crew of technicians at Rogers saw a round white, apparently metallic object descending, moving west nortwest against the wind. They observed thick projections on top which crossed each other at intervals, suggesting either rotation or oscillation. In their official report they stated: