Atheists object to Christmas toy drive on Air Force base – and win

a reply to: DeathSlayer

How many atheists does it take to screw in a light bulb? none. Science screws it. How many theists does it take to screw in a light bulb? none. But if you believe hard enough it might just screw itself.

The spirit of charity and good intentions should not be limited to the holiday season. There are many charities that celebrate their own 'holiday' yet some people only decide to be charitable when Jolly ol' saint nick is on his way.

The Christmas spirit should be all year round regardless of belief.

a reply to: DeathSlayer

I'm an atheist, and I really despise these types.

It's effin' CHRISTmas. If that bothers them, quit celebrating it, but don't stop others from doing something good for people just because it might be under the guise of an endorsement of a religion.

a reply to: Annee

"Christmas is specific to one faith."

Generosity is not.
Giving, is not.

I'm closing out from this thread with a hope that you take some time to get a closer look at these types of drives for toys and food and clothes.
I think you'll find that generosity and compassion under the term 'Christmas'... is no less seeking the same as those lacking the term.

One day, when words become less important and you realize that love comes from the heart and soul and not from labels... you'll know exactly what I mean.

Best wishes.

originally posted by: Tucket

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Annee

I'm as anti-Church/Christian as the next average person but seriously - it's TOYS FOR KIDS for crying out loud. So bloody what if they want to pretend it's about Christianity or God or whatever.

The end result is the same - poor kids getting something for bloody Christmas.

Maybe some kid that isn't Christian deserves a toy.

Maybe...as long as his name isnt..Christian?

Humor, always good

Everyone should do some additional research into the story beyond what is excerpted from one article in the OP:

The woman who sent out this email evangelizes on behalf of Franklin Graham's controversial ministry and this is not the first complaint about her.

There were fourteen airmen who complained about this latest email.

One member of the 436th, who spoke to Military.com on condition he not be identified for fear of reprisal, said Branch has sent out similar, Christian-oriented communications in the past and has also put "inappropriate" religious literature on squadron member's desks.
"This has been going on for a while," he said. "The problem is she's a gatekeeper to the commander, and she's constantly invoking this stuff."

m.military.com...

This is part of the text that was sent out through official channels:

"Our goal is to fill 5,000+ shoe boxes to be sent around the world as a way to show children in desperate situations that God loves and values them. Many of these children have never received a gift before. Many have never heard of God's incredible free Gift of Salvation through His Son. But a simple gift, a shoebox packed and prayed for by you could give a child hope and eternal security. Come, partner with us and CCA, be a 'missionary' filling shoebox gifts and praying over them with us"

www.huffingtonpost.com...

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Kryties
a reply to: Annee

I'm as anti-Church/Christian as the next average person but seriously - it's TOYS FOR KIDS for crying out loud. So bloody what if they want to pretend it's about Christianity or God or whatever.

The end result is the same - poor kids getting something for bloody Christmas.

Then call it "TOYS FOR KIDS".

Maybe some kid that isn't Christian deserves a toy.

That's what the Army calls it.

Apparently some people care more about their own selfish interests than poor kids getting toys for Christmas.

For shame.

The hate is strong in this thread. Christmas... the term strikes fear and hate into some people. The word "Christmas" further fuels the war on religion at an epic scale. Unleash the grinches!

An invitation was sent for airmen to volunteer at OCC.

Volunteer: a person who freely offers to take part in an enterprise or undertake a task.

An email was sent by a CO that contained a volunteer opportunity at OCC.

If airmen weren't dinged, disciplined, given favor/unfavor, or given a bad fitrep for non-participation, there's no problem. This is only an issue because people got upset because a charity has a, oh here's that word again, Christian origin. Children don't need toys or joy from Christians for Christmas. We must save them from those nasty toys that've been in Christian hands.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
The hate is strong in this thread. Christmas... the term strikes fear and hate into some people.

Hogwash.

Dramatic much?

originally posted by: Kryties
Apparently some people care more about their own selfish interests than poor kids getting toys for Christmas.

That's not what this is about.

It's about the secretary for an Air Force squadron commander sending out an email to all his subordinates saying "Come, partner with us and CCA, be a 'missionary' filling shoebox gifts and praying over them with us."

originally posted by: Kryties
Apparently some people care more about their own selfish interests than poor kids getting toys for Christmas.

For shame.

Only those in the secular military that insists on using a specific religion.

Which, by now, with all the lawsuits against the Air Force - - - they should know better.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: EternalSolace
The hate is strong in this thread. Christmas... the term strikes fear and hate into some people.

Dramatic much?

That's ironic. I was thinking the same thing about the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Why not just send the toys wrapped up with paper and tinsel with an airman or woman dressed up as Father Christmas?.
Why the preaching also? I never had the religion pushed onto me as a kid by Father Christmas despite the name.

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: DeathSlayer

I'm an atheist, and I really despise these types.

It's effin' CHRISTmas. If that bothers them, quit celebrating it, but don't stop others from doing something good for people just because it might be under the guise of an endorsement of a religion.

well that's exactly what they are doing....how about if a Muslim religious organization wanted to collect toys for children on military bases, would that be ok for you?

originally posted by: EternalSolace

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: EternalSolace
The hate is strong in this thread. Christmas... the term strikes fear and hate into some people.

Dramatic much?

That's ironic. I was thinking the same thing about the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Because I am an advocate of Separation of Church and State - - - I have followed the "stories" in the military.

Religious abuse is what created the need for a Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

The Air Force continues to violate.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
If airmen weren't dinged, disciplined, given favor/unfavor, or given a bad fitrep for non-participation, there's no problem.

And how do you know that something like this didn't happen or that airmen weren't concerned about it happening?

Military.com is reporting that at least one airman didn't want to speak on the record for fear of reprisal.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
This is only an issue because people got upset because a charity has a, oh here's that word again, Christian origin.

It's specifically Franklin Graham's charity. A lot of Christians have a problem with Franklin Graham.

originally posted by: Annee

Hogwash.

Dramatic much?

You're the one trying to claim that this toy collection is somehow denying non-Christian kids some of those toys because it's for "Christmas" (your logic).

You still haven't answered the question as to where, in the article linked in the OP, it says anything remotely like that. In fact, you have done everything in your power to AVOID answering that question.

originally posted by: jimmyx

originally posted by: SlapMonkey
a reply to: DeathSlayer

I'm an atheist, and I really despise these types.

It's effin' CHRISTmas. If that bothers them, quit celebrating it, but don't stop others from doing something good for people just because it might be under the guise of an endorsement of a religion.

well that's exactly what they are doing....how about if a Muslim religious organization wanted to collect toys for children on military bases, would that be ok for you?

Exactly, and what if that Muslim religious organization made it very clear that it was the greatness of Muhammad and Allah that was responsible for those Christian kids getting those toys?

originally posted by: Annee
The Air Force has a long history of forcing Christianity.

They've been taken to court more then once.

I support Separation of Church and State 100%.

They wanna collect toys? Don't call it Christmas.

I'm afraid as an atheist I have to disagree 100%.

They're just giving presents to kids, yes it's called Christmas, but these days Christmas is a general excuse for everyone to get together and be nice to each other and swap gifts for a day and isn't purely a religious thing.

If you're a hardline Christian I could see legitmate reason to be annoyed at the religion being corrupted by commerce - but this just looks like a load of people who wanted to give kids something nice to play with - which is sadly no longer going to happen due to some rabid killjoys, who apparently didn't even have the decency to try and come to a mutual agreement on how best to help the kids.

Instead they were selfishly wrapped up in trying to ban any mentions - If they were being frogmarched into church, then by all means there should be a protest and legal action, if they were being forced into having confessions and holy communion then by all means there should be a protest and legal action - but complaining about a child being given a present is indefensible in my books.

-------
I fully agree with the seperaqtion of Church and State

That being said, I don't really focus on internal US military 'aid' or 'hearts and minds' campaigns - if this is part of systemic abuse then there may be a case but when the initial oath is 'so help me God', it seems a tad hypocritical to willfully sign up and declare that oath then act all hurt because they then are expected to follow it.

These people make Dawkins look logical and a pleasant, reasonable person.

originally posted by: Kryties
Apparently some people care more about their own selfish interests than poor kids getting toys for Christmas.

For shame.

Maybe throwing toys at kids is just a band aid.

'Santa, I wish my dad would come back.'

'Sorry kiddo, Santa can't bring your Dad back. But I do have a present with your name on it...'

Twenty years later all that kid wants is their dad back, no amount of Nerf guns or my little ponies can replace the one thing that can't be bought at a store at the last minute.