Permafrost warming in parts of Alaska is 'unbelievable'

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

I don't know what you're getting at. Ice cores are not as precise as current experimental data.

For paleoclimate, you need to try to simultaneously estimate temperature conditions and CO2 conditions from complex indirect measurements and understanding processes of how the ice cores are formed and may transform over the millenia. In particular, the gas bubbles in the ice cores may migrate in location (a proxy for time) and so the precise timing measurements of N thousand years ago in CO2 and N thousand years ago in temperature are not necessarily lined up, there could be systematic errors. This is what Greven discussed as well.

The mechanistic causation of CO2 and other greenhouse gases towards warming comes from understanding physics and direct experimental measurement, not paleoclimate proxy data.

Think about it this way: how much paleoclimate data was available for understanding the interaction between CFC's and the ozone hole? None. Nevertheless the planet engaged in a worldwide cleanup effort and treaty for global climate because of the direct current observations and lab-replicable physics between CFC's and high alititude ice and ozone holes in polar regions.

a reply to: mbkennel

Interesting!

So beyond any shadow of a doubt, when Micheal Mann published the hockey stick graph that really brought global warming to the attention of the public.....he knew that the graph was most likely inaccurate?

Have you looked at the thread regarding the haze over Indonesia yet?

Would you also look at the thread "Largest Ozone Hole Ever size of Russia and Canada Now.
"

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

The thread is "Indonesia’s fire crisis ..... again !
'

Tired of Control Freaks

a reply to: InnerPeace2012

No, no you are not an expert on this subject, or you would know that our planet has gone through several cycles of being so very much warmer than it is right now, with staggeringly higher levels of CO2 and methane in the atmosphere, which allowed the dinosaurs to exist for about a billion f*%king years.

Oh...noooooo....the earth is changing back to the way it was for only a few million years ago....a climate that lasted for a few hundred million times longer than the human race....we can never adapt to a warmer climate!!!!

Seriously?

Then we deserve to die off.

a reply to: ComeAgain

You have to be seriously ignorant to believe humans did not speed up process and that we can't make change to prevent bigger changes then what we are experiencing at the moment...

Sure, we know of couple of big extinction events... but this one is like slow motion video... and for a first time we are main negative character...

Seems that folks got bit misslead... wonder who might be responsible...

Ahh wait, we already know that...

www.nytimes.com...

More than 40 of the nation’s leading environmental and social justice groups demanded a federal investigation of Exxon Mobil on Friday, accusing the huge oil and gas company of deceiving the American public about the risks of climate change to protect its profits.

In a letter to Attorney General Loretta Lynch, the groups, citing recent news reports, suggested that Exxon Mobil might be guilty of the same kind of fraud that the tobacco companies were found to have perpetrated when they hid the risks of smoking. Those violations ultimately cost the companies tens of billions of dollars in penalties.

The call for an investigation echoes demands made in recent days by three Democratic presidential candidates, including Hillary Rodham Clinton and Bernie Sanders, and by several Democrats in Congress.

Exxon Mobil rejected the comparison to the tobacco industry, declaring that it had helped to finance accurate scientific research about climate change and that it had made its research public from the 1970s to the present.

This might be interesting...

a reply to: SuperFrog

So lets see how this works:

the powers that be, the ones who are in charge of reducing global warming, and their paid army of NGOs, are going to spend billions of tax payer dollars to sue Big Oil for "hiding" evidence that burning fossil fuels could cause global warming. (yeah, like everyone truly believed that burning fossil fuels was "good" for the environment"

The lawyers will get paid billions (the pay-off for lawyers in tobacco amounted to $25,000 / hour). These lawyers will get paid by taxpayers regardless if they win or lose.

The NGOs will all sign up as interested parties.

Because its the government that is suing, they will win because they will simply change any law that might cause them to lose.

Big Oil will pay billions in punitive damages. The NGOs will demand that part of the settlement go to giving them ongoing funding in perpetuity. The government will, of course, pocket any settlement and use the money as they see fit.

Because Big Oil is a corporation that must turn a profit, the price of fossil fuels will increase to recover the cost of the settlement from consumers.

So taxpayers/consumers will pay the costs of both the government, the NGOs and Big Oil.

Will this reduce the burning of fossil fuels - well no because we still need to heat our homes and drive our cars. We still need plastics to manufacture goods.

And this will help reduce global warming .....how exactly?

My point is made. The PTB talk about global warming as if it is real but there actions bespeak of motives that having nothing to do with the environment.

I remain absolutely convinced that global warming is another "big Lie"

Tired of Control Freaks