The thousandth Sanders thread: we should vote for him loud and clear.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: amicktd

No one yet, but definitely not anyone who thinks the answer is more spending, spending, spending without addressing the very real government fiscal issues.

Tell me what needs to happen to correct the fiscal issues then. Anyone can say that, but I haven't seen any solutions. At least Bernie is going after some of the biggest issues in this country.

originally posted by: deadlyhope
a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

There's different types of socialism. The top nations of the world have socialistic bases. It has and does work, to a certain point. It's been proven that any idealogy can only last so long. There's even quotes people claim are from our forefathers that say the system they implemented was never meant to be permanent.

The difference of America? If we adopt currently successful socialistic ideologies, we have the system to get out, should it begin to fail. As of now, capitalism and democracy has turned into an oligarchy. We used to be able to brag that we had the best system, not anymore. So let's try something new. And if that doesn't work? Other nations may attempt to keep the same ideas alive even through their fall. We can rise above all that.

I say we start with Bernie. We try some socialism - attempt to copy current working models around the world, until we need to change again. All I know is that we need change, and he's offering it in a bigger way than any other candidates.

Which different types? The type Sweden has? Look how well that is working out for them. Socialism doesn't work, I don't care what color cherry you put on top. It concentrates wealth and power at the top, like you think capitalism does (crony capitalism has). It does NOT distribute wealth like you think it does. The better solution is to go back to the Constitution and reshape the country into what the founding father had envisioned.

originally posted by: FamCore
a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

www.differencebetween.net...

Socialism vs Democratic Socialism

Democratic socialism gives more importance to a democratic character. While having almost the same principles as that of socialism, democratic socialism believes in a socialism through the ballot box. It states that any change in government and society should be through fair elections.

Fair elections? Are you joking? Fair as in busing in Chicago residents to vote in Wisconsin fair? Like 115% of registered voter turnout in black districts fair? Those kind of fair elections?

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: HighDesertPatriot
I am a conservative/constitutional/libertarian/whatever, and I agree with him on some points. The Wall Street kleptocracy has got to end. It is ruining this country and enriching the top .1% - he is right about that. Fiscal conservatives should know this and want it remedied.

He is wrong about guns, though. He is wrong about a lot of other things as well, but the thing that is dangerous about this guy - and you should all be aware - are the METHODS by which he hopes to accomplish his agenda. He is a socialist by his own admittance. Socialism never works, ever. Oh, just because this is America doesn't mean it will work here - it won't. Look how bad things already are under socialism lite with 0bama.

Don't vote for a socialist, no matter what they say. If you're an adult you should know this.

If your worried about guns, then you should be worried about the other Democratic candidates. Honestly, I don't see Bernie ever pushing for more gun laws. Your gonna have to do more than just say socialism never works to sway me.

Okay, let me rephrase. Socialism has never worked. You think Bernie socialism will... why? Because his socialism is better than Stalin's? Better than Mao's?

As I've said on other threads, I'll be voting for Sanders because he's the closest thing to an honest candidate out there. That alone puts him head and shoulders above any other potential candidate I've seen. I also love that he recognizes the wealth gap as one of the most important situations facing our country.

DP

a reply to: FormOfTheLord

Neither do I.

Either Bernie delivers a changed nation, which I don't particularly believe he could, due to our congressman and senators and judicial branch... Or he doesn't deliver, and more eyes are opened. If his main campaign promise is to rise against the elites, that applies to the majority, and there will be hell to pay if it doesn't follow through.

Gay marriage? Abortions? Marijuana? Gun control?

Each are smaller issues I'd say. Tackling the elites is huge. It's a huge promise, and it won't just be an upset minority if progress isn't made - so long as we make it loud and clear that's why we are choosing him.

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

I'm all for capitalism. I'm all for small fed, bigger state governments. I'm for small business, less regulations, less lawsuits. I want America to be how it was envisioned.

Right now you have the worst of both. A rigged system for politicians and corporations alike. If Sanders wants to tackle half the problem, instead of none of the problem like most, I'm all for it.

Un rig the system, take money out of politics. Our fed is already huge, but taking the elite down a notch will fix problems on many fronts.

If we vote for him and let him know that we citizens unite to elect him for the purpose of taking on the banksters, he'll have to deliver. Our government in general will have to, otherwise it will open too many eyes as to who's really in control, and maybe revolution could occur.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Eh, I feel ya, man, I do. I just don't think Bernie is the guy. I like Trump to a degree, but I fear that his corporate interests will cloud his judgment. He does talk about reeling in Wall Street, but my opinion is that Wall Street shouldn't exist at all, or if it did, it should be a long-game only structure where companies are valuated based on their current P&L, and assets held. The way it is set up now, you're buying a 2004 Honda Civic for $14,000, hoping it goes to $20,000 so you can make some money when it magically turns into a Lamborghini some time in the future. It's as if the actual worth of the car means nothing.

a reply to: deadlyhope

I don't think you can be a conservative Republican and like Bernie Sanders. That is simply a confused worldview you are espousing.

Sanders is on the stage to make Hillary look not so leftist.

He went to bat for her over the email scandal. He wants Democrat power any way he can get it including shifting support to Hillary.

originally posted by: HighDesertPatriot

originally posted by: amicktd

originally posted by: HighDesertPatriot
I am a conservative/constitutional/libertarian/whatever, and I agree with him on some points. The Wall Street kleptocracy has got to end. It is ruining this country and enriching the top .1% - he is right about that. Fiscal conservatives should know this and want it remedied.

He is wrong about guns, though. He is wrong about a lot of other things as well, but the thing that is dangerous about this guy - and you should all be aware - are the METHODS by which he hopes to accomplish his agenda. He is a socialist by his own admittance. Socialism never works, ever. Oh, just because this is America doesn't mean it will work here - it won't. Look how bad things already are under socialism lite with 0bama.

Don't vote for a socialist, no matter what they say. If you're an adult you should know this.

If your worried about guns, then you should be worried about the other Democratic candidates. Honestly, I don't see Bernie ever pushing for more gun laws. Your gonna have to do more than just say socialism never works to sway me.

Okay, let me rephrase. Socialism has never worked. You think Bernie socialism will... why? Because his socialism is better than Stalin's? Better than Mao's?

You should make a thread about comparing Hitler, Tao, and Stalin to Bernie Sanders.

a reply to: amicktd

I understand this thread will attract socialists like a moth to a flame, and that I will never win a debate here. I'll leave it at that.

a reply to: Generation9

It's about liking his "goal" - to take on bankers.

I don't care about everything else as much, he can push legislation against the banksters in four years. No way he could turn us completely into a progressive socialist leftist nation in that time.

Holding him accountable for that specific promise is the main reason I want him in.

It's just personal opinion and vibes and other non factual things that make me drawn more to him as a decent person. I'd rather a good intended socialist in, rather than an evil intended anything else.

Also, it's what I've normally identified with. With further studying, researching, seeing how other nations work - I realize America doesn't have to be one specific thing, and it never has been.

Now, it's just so far away from what the average person wants, and Bernie is offering to fight against the corps and banks causing the situation.

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

It's not about socialism or capitalism or democracy - it's about the president that will actually fight for the average citizen.

Take away the elites power, then we can vote in someone that is more traditional, or stands up for capitalistic democracy. We certainly don't have that now.

Bernie makes too much sense to become the next president, on top of it people are trying to compare him to hitler, then you know hes the right man for the job.

But it wont happen, next pupet president in 3 2 1

originally posted by: HighDesertPatriot
a reply to: amicktd

I understand this thread will attract socialists like a moth to a flame, and that I will never win a debate here. I'll leave it at that.

Suit yourself, I just feel its a waste of time to compare Bernie to a bunch of Dictator's that don't even follow the same laws. If you were attacking his ideas it would be a different story. Honestly, the main reason I support Bernie is because he seems genuine about fighting corruption in politics. If he could just get that done, I'd be satisfied because at least he would give us a starting point to turn this country around.

a reply to: amicktd

Thank you! That's exactly my point. Cut out the cancer, then work on healing, and he's holding an operating knife and offering to cut it out.

a reply to: deadlyhope

Fight, will he? He'll actually roll up his sleeves and punch someone on behalf of a working stiff? I don't think so. You want someone who will work for EVERYONE, not just a subgroup. One needs to get the government out of private enterprise so it can thrive, to lower taxes (not raise them) on everyone, to encourage consumer spending.

Eh, I am sure proven facts are of no use to you guys here. Have fun.

a reply to: HighDesertPatriot

If he promises to fight, if that what we say we vote him in for, and he doesn't? More people will retaliate than most issues. You think of union marches, gay rights and abortions protests? It'll be much bigger, if we all vote him under that premise, and he doesn't deliver. That's one of my key points.. He's not promising fifty different minorities he will push their agenda, or push for their rights. He's telling every American he will go up against the evil in the system.. If he let's us down, more eyes will be open. That's my assumption.

I can tell when people don't know anything about him because all they know is he is a socialist and that's all they have to say. I AM FOR socialized medicine because it costs too much. If we can send billions to other countries then we can have free education and healthcare dangit !