MH17 Ukraine disaster: Dutch report blames missile

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcalibur254

The investigation was lead by the Dutch former head of the counter terrorism service. According to Snowden The Dutch secret service does exactly what the CIA wants, just as other secret services like Belgium and Germany. The Ukrainian SBU is also controlled by the CIA nowadays.

The investigation was supposedly handed over to The Netherlands, but was actually done by both the Ukraine and The Netherlands together (the impression has only be been made The Netherlands has done it alone).

So what we have witnessed was nothing more as an US lead investigation...and who in their right mind trusts the outcome of such an investigation ?

Only idiots !

Now we have one (yeah, that's right. One!) investigator left to find the guilty, with not a single clue so far. It's ridiculous, but most people buy this Ukrainian cover-up with Dutch aid.

Yet not a sinlge shred of U.S. intelligence data, as if they've slept through the whole process. How... telling!

originally posted by: paraphi

originally posted by: RogueWave
Thanks. So they are using the BUK pics that I consider fakes. I'll get back on that.

Why do you consider them fakes?

Sorry for the one-liner, but it's important to know.

I am going to discuss this in this thread, you are free to join in with your perspective.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Yet not a sinlge shred of U.S. intelligence data, as if they've slept through the whole process. How... telling!

Unlike Russia, the United States has not been circulating fake photos and testimonies. Your attempt to use the absence of evidence from a country that was not involved in the incident is pathetic. Admit it: the recordings of the Russian radar returns prove that:

1) There were no military planes in the area
2) The earlier alleged recording of radar returns was a fake.

Care to address these issues?

originally posted by: BornAgainAlien
a reply to: Xcalibur254

The investigation was lead by the Dutch former head of the counter terrorism service. According to Snowden The Dutch secret service does exactly what the CIA wants, just as other secret services like Belgium and Germany. The Ukrainian SBU is also controlled by the CIA nowadays.

The investigation was supposedly handed over to The Netherlands, but was actually done by both the Ukraine and The Netherlands together (the impression has only be been made The Netherlands has done it alone).

So what we have witnessed was nothing more as an US lead investigation...and who in their right mind trusts the outcome of such an investigation ?

Only idiots !

Snowden... lol. HE dont have access to anything these days and he was gone before the shoot down as well. Your article is a fabrication. you been duped. hornswaggled.

a reply to: PublicOpinion
Funny hos "snowden" just conveinetly knows all this info huh? ESPECIALLY sinc ei toccurred AFTER he was gone an d on th e run with revoked security cleareance and passcodes. In other words the Informations too good to b e true.

a reply to: DJW001

Did you address one of the issues I stressed? Nope. Yeah, blaim Putin if ya like. All that fictional proof, for your claim of Russian fakes, is really compelling, innit? Read the Nist report then, you'll fall in love with that masterpiece instantly.

Unlike Russia, the United States has not been circulating fake photos and testimonies.

Yes they did. Not once in a while, but rather chronically. Remember the DoD "sat-data"? No? Thought so.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Yes they did. Not once in a while, but rather chronically. Remember the DoD "sat-data"? No? Thought so.

Can you post a link to this fake "sat data?"

a reply to: yuppa

I don't need Snowden to laugh my ass of. Yes, the European Intelligence is a telescope-like extension for the loving arms of US alphabet agencies. That's what he was referring to, an open secret if ya like. Captn Obvious strikes again.



a reply to: DJW001

Funny DOD Graphic

a reply to: PublicOpinion

You do know that the sat data th e US has is evidence in th e criminal case and as such cant be exposed right?

a reply to: yuppa

You believe that? This DOD-graphic with brand new Digital Gobe data from 2010 must have been illegally uploaded then. There is no criminal case, just a lousy investigation called cover-up with one dude and without a single clue yet.

This case will be closed in a few years without any findings, wanna bet?

a reply to: PublicOpinion

You're hilarious! That's not a DoD satellite image:



It's an infographic using satellite imagery provided by:

www.digitalglobe.com...

So, are you going to take your claim back? Didn't think so.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

This case will be closed in a few years without any findings, wanna bet?

Yes. If the case is closed without any findings I will leave ATS. If there are findings, you will leave ATS. Deal?

a reply to: DJW001

You're hilarious! That's not a DoD satellite image:

Yes I am, thanks. Now do some research, you're sure the DOD didn't bother to mess with this "sat-data" in one of their legendary press-conferences?

Taking bets only, we're here to stay. Both of us I hope, which is fine. As we contribute diametrically opposed viewpoints and may even learn something whilst doing so.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Now do some research, you're sure the DOD didn't bother to mess with this "sat-data" in one of their legendary press-conferences?

I'm not the one making the claim, you are. It shouldn't be that hard for you to find. You wouldn't just make something like that up now, would you?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: PublicOpinion

Now do some research, you're sure the DOD didn't bother to mess with this "sat-data" in one of their legendary press-conferences?

I'm not the one making the claim, you are. It shouldn't be that hard for you to find. You wouldn't just make something like that up now, would you?

Why should I, care to elaborate on that "Russian fake" now? You've straw-manned me through this and may add something solid yourself by now. Just to keep up with my good manners, you know...

a reply to: PublicOpinion

www.abovetopsecret.com...

PublicOpinion wrote

Which 'clear' waters are you talking about? You would seriously consider that 'HD latest Digital Globe 2010 data' with funny Clip-Arts could be actual evidence? Why? And where exactly did you add any proof to your claim, that the Russians lied?

Of course the Russian lied. The Russian Ministry of Defence presentation was a catalogue of lies. Such were the lies that they are still regularly used as fact. It was designed to do that. In was
designed to spread rumour and confusion in order to muddy the waters and deflect attention.

Can you explain why the Russian Ministry of Defence presented the MH17 flight path as presented? Remember the Russian ICAO have agreed with and signed off on the MH17 flight path. The flight path presented by the
Russian Ministry of Defence was a lie. That lie further fuelled the conspiracy mill with claims of the previous 10 flight paths being altered and that Ukrainian ATC made MH17 deviate.

The Russians also lied about the location of the Buk on the truck video. The Russian Ministry of Defence claimed that the video was filmed in Krasnoarmeisk which was in Ukrainian Government Control. The video was filmed in Luhansk.

At the time of the filming the area in question was in rebel hands. The question arises as to why the Russians were so quick to claim to the world that the video was filmed in Krasnoarmeysk? Why did the Russian military lie to the world when they made the following claim in their MH17 presentation?

The good example of such fact is that some mass media showed transportation of the Buk-M1 missile system from Ukrainian to Russian territory.We can clearly see that its frame-up. These pictures were made in the city of Krasnoarmeisk that is confirmed by a banner situated close to the road. This banner has an address of the car shop situated at the Dnepropetrovskaya, 34. Since May 11 the Krasnoarmeysk city is under control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

UK Russian Embassy Link

There was no !Dnepropetrovskaya, 34" address banner on the billboard and internet sleuths quickly found the true filming location in Luhansk. Was that the best that Russian military intelligence could do with all their intelligence resources? Even today they still have that Krasnoarmeisk lie on their UK Embassy website.

The billboard that is pictured in the video was found in Luhansk. There was never any address bar on it as the Russian claimed proving that the billboard was in Krasnoarmeysk. That revelation upset someone so much that they went to the Luhansk billboard and physically ripped off the address bar. Now why would someone do that? Would it have been in order not to further embarrass the Russians. Remember they plastered that billboard and claim on a giant screen for the whole world to see during that press conference. They lied and got caught out. Even Russia Today stopped running the Buk on a Truck footage after they found out that it was filmed in Luhansk. They stopped trotting out the images of the billboard and the claims from the Russian Ministry of Defence that it was 100% proven to have been filmed in Krasnoarmeysk.

And yes they also lied about the date of that imagery they presented as being from July 17th. They got caught out trying to make out that a disabled Buk TELAR had been deployed. The question is why? Can you explain all the errors in the Russian Ministry of Defence presentation? Remember they also put in the claim of seeing another radar target near MH17 and the sowing of the Su-25 theory. Explain why they can't provide the original radar tapes to the Dutch Safety Board for analysis? Do you not think that this would have been crucial evidence? The reality was that there was no other aircraft and that all the radar showed was the returns from the break up of the MH17. Yet again the Russian Ministry of Defence sowed the seed of confusion with the Su-25 claim. The rest is history as they only put out the other aircraft theory.

Why didn't they also put out the possibility that it could have been the radar returns of the break up of the Boeing 777? Exactly! They were quite content to let the theory of the Su-25 be out there and let the conspiracy rumour mill do their work for them. The Russians are also doing the same with them questioning why Bow-Tie warhead fragments were found in the MH17 wreckage and recovered from the Captain and other human remains. It is dangled out there in order to sow confusion and muddy the waters. The conspiracy mill now has the claim that the Bow-Tie warhead fragments were planted.

You see how it works? The little lies are put out there and the conspiracy rumour mill does the rest. That is why the likes of Russia Today have these conspiracy theorists on speed dial. They had one on again during the day of the Dutch Safety Board presentation. He was allowed without question or correction to still trot out the claims that MH17s flight plan was purposely deviated by Ukrainian ATC and even say that the Russians had released satellite imagery of the Ukrainian fighter jet near MH17. He wanted to know why none of that 'evidence' was presented in the DSB report!!!!! Again you see how it works? That faked satellite image appeared on Russian state TV Channel and it is enough for it to become fact and for the conspiracy rumour mill to do the rest.

Being caught out in a lie over the Billboard someone removed the address bar from the Luhansk one as featured in the Buk on a Truck video. Quite convenient for the Russian Ministry of Defence after it was proved that the filming location was Luhansk.

Billboard Link

Remember what the Russian Military claimed.

The good example of such fact is that some mass media showed transportation of the Buk-M1 missile system from Ukrainian to Russian territory.We can clearly see that its frame-up. These pictures were made in the city of Krasnoarmeisk that is confirmed by a banner situated close to the road. This banner has an address of the car shop situated at the Dnepropetrovskaya, 34. Since May 11 the Krasnoarmeysk city is under control of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.

Russian Military image of Billboard

No doubt when the Dutch Criminal Investigation is published the above Russian Military claim will be trotted out repeatedly and die-hard conspiracy theorists will be using it to say that it was filmed in Krasnoarmeisk and in Ukrainian controlled territory. You see how it works?!

a reply to: BornAgainAlien

It is a lame piece of presented evidence. It is a GAZ-469 used by both sides. Why on earth would a Ukrainian Military jeep be going through rebel controlled territory in Torez? You can also see that it lacks the white recognition stripe on the back. The white marking on the door could be a crest or partial marking of separatist forces.

What about the Buk on the Truck video from Zuhres? Why was there there an easily recognisable URAL rebel modified truck following the Buk on the trailer?

Link

The truck and low loader was also seen being used by rebels moving other equipment.


www.bellingcat.com...

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Why should I, care to elaborate on that "Russian fake" now? You've straw-manned me through this and may add something solid yourself by now. Just to keep up with my good manners, you know...

Just so everyone reading this thread knows, I have presented this obvious fake to PublicOpinion numerous times and he has refused to comment on it. His tactic of making claims for which he provides no evidence and then pretending that I have misrepresented him is an attempt to confuse casual readers. There is now no reason for him to continue evading:



This photo was presented as an actual satellite image by Russia's TV 1 and rapidly repeated by the rest of Russia's propaganda network.

RT aired interviews with people who claimed to have seen military planes in the area. Russian radar captures later proved there were none.

The Russian MoD released footage purportedly showing military craft in the area. The radar returns officially submitted to the investigation committee show none.

The Russians circulated an account by an alleged Ukrainian air force mechanic in which he claims he overheard a pilot muttering he shot down "the wrong plane." His account gives a different number of planes involved than the supposed witnesses.

Russian media circulated an account by someone claiming to be a Spanish air controller working at a Ukrainian air control tower. No such person exists.

Russian agents were caught altering the wikipedia entry on the SU-25 to make it look possible for it to shoot down the airliner.

Care to dispute any of this, or are you just going to muddy the waters and make baseless claims again?

Typical, not focusing on the lies of the Western media and Politicians regarding MH17, but trying to draw attention away from it by and at the same time keep saying over and over the Russians are lying.

And the irony of it, Russia is being called the one who wants to confuse, but the strategy behind the above is to confuse.