MH17 Ukraine disaster: Dutch report blames missile

a reply to: liteonit6969

Why is it required to add the Russian made part?

Because it is.

So if I take a tea cup made in England and hit you with it. I'm sure the English won't be blamed.

There is a big difference between hitting someone with a tea cup, and firing a Russian made missile at a plane.

And the report doesn't say Russia did it, but they made the weapon that did so it gets mentioned. If a US missile was used they would say it was an American made missile, so that doesn't really matter.

Moreover it won't be stated that English made cup done the damage.

If England was the only country that made tea cups then they probably would.

This missile was used by many groups. More importantly as stated by the Russian defence minister this missile has not been used by Russia for many many years.

And yet they had one catch fire at their most recent parade...please refer to my post above proving that lie wrong.

However Ukraine use these weapons which is fact.

And why would Ukraine actually have them active when their is no planes to shoot down as the separatists have no planes, and the BUK's they took from Ukraine were not operating, but they had an operational BUK in the area at the time MH 17 was shot down.

Khodakovsky said it was widely known that rebels had obtained BUKs from Ukrainian forces in the past, including three captured at a checkpoint in April and another captured near the airport in Donetsk. He said none of the BUKs captured from Ukrainian forces were operational.

While he said he could not be certain where the BUK system operating on rebel territory at the time of the air crash had come from, he said it may have come from Russia.

www.reuters.com...

Therefore why try to blame the rebels who may have used these weapons with not evidence. And not blame the Ukraine forces who 100% use these missiles.

Well because it was shot down well into separatist held territory, and do you think Ukraine could have snuck that weapon there without being confronted either before or after it fired?

a reply to: Zaphod58

The prosecutor's office is already running an investigation, but needed the report for it.

As the investigators made clear when they opened up to a press visit, there is now, or eventually will be, enough evidence to assign guilt.

www.thedailybeast.com...

So... where is it?
Closed investigation maybe?




a reply to: Majic

I feel ya, absolutely spot on! Thanks for chiming in like the mother-hen.

So, we know it was a "Russian made" BUK missile that did the deed, with due process to reach that point. Not an air to air missile, or a canon shell, not some other reason mentioned on RT.com or other Russian media. We've seen all the theories including a Mossad-flown stealth plane.

The question is who fired it?

Will Russia now support the independent international criminal tribunal to uncover the truth, or is that a step to far because the truth is something Russia don't want to see the light of day?

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Russian news agencies later said people close to Khodakovsky denied he made the admissions. Khodakovsky himself told Life News, a Russian news agency with links to Moscow's security services, that he was misquoted and had merely discussed "possible versions" with Reuters. Khodakovsky said the rebels "do not have and have never had" a Buk.

www.theguardian.com...

That story is a dead horse. Reuters doesn't look very reliable now, I would prefer the guardian if I were you.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Investigations aren't public. Why would they be?

Prosecutors from the countries affected most - Netherlands, Malaysia, Belgium, Australia and Ukraine - are investigating the crash, but it is not clear where, when or how any suspects would be tried if they are identified. Russia vetoed a Dutch-led proposal to establish a U.N. tribunal last month.

mobile.reuters.com...

In any case, because of the report, the blame seems to have shifted to the Ukraine, for not having closed their airspace. At least in Dutch media.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

They clearly had a BUK, lot's of pictures were taken from the BUK in the rebel area on the day MH17 was shot down.
Although not seized from Ukraine, it came from Russia and was transported back to Russia after the downing of MH17.

a reply to: earthling42

I am not very sure about the authenticity of those pics and the supposed location that they passed in the footage.

originally posted by: RogueWave
a reply to: earthling42

I am not very sure about the authenticity of those pics and the supposed location that they passed in the footage.

And that's almost exactly what you will say about the satellite imagery.

a reply to: RogueWave

Well, that does not matter, what matters is that it is investigated and locations pinpointed by the investigation teams.
Couple that with the stories of those who took the pictures, i see no real reason to have uncertainties.

a reply to: earthling42

Yeah. Except all the picturesque evidence for that story came from Bellingcat and was poorly faked.

The Urkainian mil. had BUKs operating in that area as well. If there was a system from Russia operating in Ukraine we would see some evidence (without different perspectives in one picture) by now.

Feel free to prove me wrong, think you meant exactly the BUK pictures I was referring to.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

And why would a Ukrainian BUK target a plane coming from the West? The separatists have no jets and if it was Russian it would be coming from the other direction. The separatists on the other hand has downed a number of Ukrainian jets in that same area.

And let's not forget that social media accounts linked to the separatists up until that point took credit for downing an aircraft in that area. Only to delete the posts once they knew what they had done. Then there's also a separatist leader who admitted to downing MH17.

a reply to: PublicOpinion

Nope, a team of investigators was in Ukraine, spoke with locals and received original pictures including their stories.
Also some people have send their video or pictures to the team after it was asked through a video message that was spread.
Bellingcat is not the source.

a reply to: earthling42

Sounds like the same story Bellingcat was spinning, you better check your sources again.



a reply to: Xcalibur254

Gossip. There are also rumors regarding an rebel Su-25, as there were reports regarding drunk Ukrainian forces operating a BUK on their side of the frontline. Nothing could be substantiated by now, at least not on my watch.

Ukraine's Security Council said the military jets were hit at the altitude of 5,200 meters by missiles that, according to preliminary information, were launched from Russia.

"They were shot down very professionally. The terrorists do not have such professionals," said Andriy Lysenko, the council's spokesman, referring to pro-Russian rebels fighting the government forces in eastern Ukraine.

The rebels said they shot down the plane themselves.

www.reuters.com...

5200m is still within Igla-S range, innit? (forget about that, 3500m would be max altitude)

Don't get me wrong, they might actually have a TALAR operational. But a whole BUK-system? We would see some clear HD sat.-data by now if that would be the case, wouldn't we?

a reply to: DJW001

The US satellite evidence is relevant to the who, not the how.

Yes, the silence from the West is deafening.

Edit:And just like that the cry to wait for the Dutch Investigation results thats been ongoing for a year now, switches directly to, wait for another investigation result to tell us who. I don't expect that much from western intel on criminal culpability. If they had such evidence they would have blazed it to the world by now. And if such evidence points in Kievs direction they know other governments (like Russia ) will be only to happy to refute it. Between lying and remaining mite, the US will remain mute in such a case.

a reply to: earthling42

SBU are not all locals, but lots of them are.

G.G.J. Knoops already said about them, they are pretty worthless because date stamps could not be verified...so they just could have been nitpicked to make a case.

a reply to: earthling42

Bellingcat is not the source.

But can you post a link to the pics in questiion?

Nope, a team of investigators was in Ukraine, spoke with locals and received original pictures including their stories. Also some people have send their video or pictures to the team after it was asked through a video message that was spread.

And the source for this.

a reply to: intrptr

Yes, the silence from the West is deafening.

And when the images are released?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr

Yes, the silence from the West is deafening.

And when the images are released?

If they had such evidence they would have released it.

originally posted by: intrptr

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: intrptr

Yes, the silence from the West is deafening.

And when the images are released?

If they had such evidence they would have released it.

Why? And give the guilty time to poison the well?