Fed Revises Total US Debt To 350% Of GDP, After "Discovering" Another $2.7 Trillion In Debt

originally posted by: StoutBroux

originally posted by: dogstar23

originally posted by: liteonit6969
a reply to: DrumStickNinja

Did you gorge how expensive golf clubs were? Barry must be going through a set a week.

Also don't forget Michelle Obama sex change op is pretty expensive. As we can see she is only half way there so expect the rest to be found in a couple of years.

That explains it all. Thank you for your valuable insight. I'm glad you were able to share it, rather than spend the time to put this into the perspective it so desparately needs.

Seriously at this point, we're 62 Trillion in debt. What's another 2 or 3 or 500? It is all so outlandish and unfathomable. We're getting numb at all this extreme debt bullsh#t. It means nothing to me anymore it's so bizarre. It makes no sense and there's not a damn thing anyone of us can do about it.

It all only matters as long as the people, and what not, continue to "believe" in this system.

By people, I mean the ones who control it all.

Once they're done.. the plug will be pulled and that will be that..

Than it'll be RFID and credit chits.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: crazyewok

It's easy if your entire existence is to create money out of thin air.

It's easy if your entire existence is to create money out of thin air which is the sole perogative of the banks. Thats why you and I pay the interest on the money the govt borrows from the banks only its called tax so you and I wont realise whats going on.

If govts were permitted create credit out of thin air like banks do then they can create all the money necessary for all the goods and services the country needs each year. This would be by a govt or treasury offical making a credit entry into a govt bank account, each month or so throughout etc.

originally posted by: Cygnis
Isn't it great, that we have this entity known as the Federal Reserve, pumping and dumping money into the ponzi scheme to keep things going, into perpetuity.

Isn't it great that, as long as people have faith in the system they'll keep playing along, allowing themselves to become deeper ensconced in the Fed's pocket, like slaves being in debt to the "Company Store".

Isn't it great that no one has any over-sight of the agency that is responsible for the most misery on this planet?

Keep playing the game people. Keep borrowing and buying.

It's only money....

Its not so much the masses borrowing money that is causing this problem its the FED creating money for the too big to fail banks. It was known as quantative easing but dunno what its called now.

The role the masses have played in the running up this debt is very little compared to the actions of the FED who print money for wars, balck budgets etc.

originally posted by: crazyewok
How do you "just" find 2.7 trillion in debt?

It's simple.
The credit card bill just came in for last month.

So is this thing going to be updates from $18 trillion to $20 trillion or what am I missing here? usdebtclock.org...



a reply to: Ngatikiwi

you can go here and find all of those numbers (being updated all the time) too - good math off the top of your head, according to DebtClock it's about $203,000 per citizen

originally posted by: crazyewok
How do you "just" find 2.7 trillion in debt?

The government has been "cooking the books" for years. Unemployment and CPI are but 2 examples. I suppose the Fed does the same thing.

Ugh... I feel old I remember panic for awhile when it was 14k roughly per person.

originally posted by: StoutBroux
Seriously at this point, we're 62 Trillion in debt. What's another 2 or 3 or 500? It is all so outlandish and unfathomable. We're getting numb at all this extreme debt bullsh#t. It means nothing to me anymore it's so bizarre. It makes no sense and there's not a damn thing anyone of us can do about it.

What's being reported on in this article isn't solely US government debt. They're also including Wall Street in that, and that's what the additional 2.7 trillion was part of, government debt only makes up about 18 trillion of that 62 this is all personal and business credit lines. Honestly it's not so bad when compared to the derivatives market, that's the one that's going to get us.

If you read the article you'll find that the 2.7 trillion added was outlays against future retirement plans. Accounts to pay out retirement, even if they're funded are considered a liability. From the article

Total debt outstanding was revised upwards due to methodology changes to both Treasury securities and security credit. Total debt outstanding is now the sum of two new instrument categories: debt securities (table L.208) and loans (table L.214). The aggregate of these instrument categories was previously called credit market instruments.

Treasury securities, part of the debt securities instrument category, now include nonmarketable Treasury securities held by federal government defined benefit retirement plans (FL343061145). The inclusion of federal government defined benefit retirement plans resulted in an upward revision to the level of federal government debt of about $1.408 trillion for 2014:Q4

originally posted by: Aazadan

What's being reported on in this article isn't solely US government debt. They're also including Wall Street in that, and that's what the additional 2.7 trillion was part of, government debt only makes up about 18 trillion of that 62 this is all personal and business credit lines. Honestly it's not so bad when compared to the derivatives market, that's the one that's going to get us.

Can you explain that with sources?

If the government issues Treasury Securities, then who pays them off at maturity?

a reply to: Aazadan

Who is most of the American debt owed to again?

Is it ... 65 % the American people?

Why yes, yes it is.

Forbes

originally posted by: Gryphon66
Who is most of the American debt owed to again?

Public (government) debt is primarily owed to ourselves.

Private debt which is what most of that $62 trillion comes from is primarily owed to investment banks.

originally posted by: xuenchen

originally posted by: Aazadan

What's being reported on in this article isn't solely US government debt. They're also including Wall Street in that, and that's what the additional 2.7 trillion was part of, government debt only makes up about 18 trillion of that 62 this is all personal and business credit lines. Honestly it's not so bad when compared to the derivatives market, that's the one that's going to get us.

Can you explain that with sources?

If the government issues Treasury Securities, then who pays them off at maturity?

Treasury Securities aren't the only thing at issue here.

Here's the scope of the article from the beginning

So did the Fed spontaneously terminate the reporting of what until the second quarter's update of the Flow of Funds, was the most comprehensive official summary of Household, Financial, Corporate and Government debt in existence? And if so why?

It's not purely about government debt.

And again here's the explanation, and a repeat that this is primarily private debt, once again from the article except the bolding is mine.

Reporting debt securities and loans separately brings the Financial Accounts more in line with the international standards for national accounts. The debt securities instrument includes open market paper, Treasury securities, agency- and GSE-backed securities, municipal securities, and corporate and foreign bonds. The new loans instrument includes depository loans not elsewhere classified, other loans and advances, mortgages, and consumer credit. Together, debt securities plus loans include all of the financial assets or liabilities previously included in credit market instruments. While the underlying instrument categories that make up the sum of debt securities and loans are the same as those in old "credit market instruments" concept, changes to a few of these categories make the new sum of debt securities and loans larger than in previous publications.

a reply to: Aazadan

My point exactly. (I agree with your sentiments and was "backing you up.")

We "owe" most of the big scary debt to "ourselves."

Is the debt a problem to be reckoned with?

Absolutely. I believe we should start being fiscally responsible tomorrow and restore tax revenues, cut ridiculous military spending and corporate welfare, etc.

Is our debt the apocalyptic nightmare scenario that some want to make it?

Not in the least. 65% of it is an accounting entry.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Ugh... I feel old I remember panic for awhile when it was 14k roughly per person.

Excepting the debt we owe to ourselves (which we could cancel with few side effects if we wanted to) the average debt per citizen for US government debt right now is $22,082 which actually isn't that bad. If we go back to the beginning of the Federal Reserve it was $894 per citizen. Going by CPI inflation (which is low since the 1982 reforms) $894 in 1913 is equal to $21,520.66 today. So we're actually holding pretty steady, if you account for CPI screwery our debt share is actually declining.

originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Irishhaf
Ugh... I feel old I remember panic for awhile when it was 14k roughly per person.

Excepting the debt we owe to ourselves (which we could cancel with few side effects if we wanted to) the average debt per citizen for US government debt right now is $22,082 which actually isn't that bad. If we go back to the beginning of the Federal Reserve it was $894 per citizen. Going by CPI inflation (which is low since the 1982 reforms) $894 in 1913 is equal to $21,520.66 today. So we're actually holding pretty steady, if you account for CPI screwery our debt share is actually declining.

What are your thoughts on the numbers shown on this screen?

Link

According to this, debt per citizen is $57,xxx and debt per US tax payer is $154,xxx.

Not sure of the validity of the site.. but food for thought..

originally posted by: hillbilly4rent
Remember when rumsfeld and co. lost 2.3 billion and what happened next.

Just to through a spin on it.

Amen Bro!

originally posted by: Cygnis

What are your thoughts on the numbers shown on this screen?

Link

According to this, debt per citizen is $57,xxx and debt per US tax payer is $154,xxx.

Not sure of the validity of the site.. but food for thought..

Like anything with accounting It depends on how you're tabulating it. I was including only government owned debt that isn't owed to ourselves. The US is 18 trillion in debt but only 35% of that is actual debt, the remaining 65% is money we owe to ourselves from one spending account to another, for example taking money from Social Security to fund another program and leaving an IOU for $1 creates $1 in debt.

The debt is imaginary, just like their money.

originally posted by: Ngatikiwi
Geez

Just did a rough calculation

$62 trillion total debt
pop of US 325 million
equals a debt of $190 thousand (and climbing) for each and every person.

Come on people. You guys just need to work a lot harder and a lot longer...(sarcasm)..

HTF can an individual/collective ever hope to put a dent in this over their lifetime let alone live and prosper.

Most other countries arnt much better.

A currency reset is the only option or just keep playing the game again and again and again......

Another game of monopoly anyone?
Ill be the bank and Ive got infinitely deep pockets. Honest!

I believe if you include unfunded liabilities. Its like a 1.1 million tax bill per. It would be funny if everyone got that bill from the irs.

Good thing money isn't real. The only thing anyone ever needs to know about money is that it's only worth what our minds say it is worth.