School district bans Halloween to accommodate ‘cultural beliefs’

So, the BIG question. Does Halloween violate Separation of Church and State? Or should it?

Is it so offensive to some religious believers that they must avoid it?

And as far as who complained, be aware that there was only one (known) anonymous complaint against the Living Nativity in school.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Annee

What should we do with the people in gov. buildings that think about anything related to religion?

Nothing.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Annee

What should we do with the people in gov. buildings that think about anything related to religion?

Maybe we can just issue atheist hammers and they can go around nailing people in the head if they think ,speak or teach anything to do with religion.

I don't understand.

How can you not understand the issue by now?

People can think or do anything they want on their own. The issue is is when you have the government endorsing religion.

So in your above example people can obviously "think or speak" about religion in the work place. As far as "teaching," however, that would be problematic if, for example, you had a superior engaging in that with employees who worked below her/him and who might feel obligated to go along because of their job (which does happen.) Are you just intentionally confusing this issue?

And this is actually to protect Christians as much as anyone else. There is a great deal of disagreement among different sects. Would a Southern Baptist appreciate being "taught" at work by a Seventh Day Adventist that he should go to church on Saturday and not eat any meat?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
a reply to: yeahright

It seems it was actually banned due to Christian objections of the past.

Turns out there's enough political correctness on ALL sides!!

people that believe in a mythical god, forcing others to believe that a mythical devil, has a holiday for kids to celebrate mythical evil.....hello?...critical-thinking skills?...you have some people that need to evolve.

I don't really understand the whole "being offended" thing.

There is very little out there (if anything) that "offends" me.

Sure, there are things people say or do that I think is horrible, or in bad taste -- but I'm not personally hurt over it. I don't let people have the power to play with my emotions like that. When you do, you are giving them the power to control you and your decision making abilities.

Besides, what other people do isn't because of me -- or has anything to do with me. I don't control or want control over other people. I don't want to force my beliefs onto someone else just as much as I don't want beliefs forced onto me.

It really is an amazing thing to realize you can pick and chose what you focus your attention on. You really can choose to include or exclude things from your personal view of reality. It's quite empowering, I suggest people try it more often.

originally posted by: Annee

And as far as who complained, be aware that there was only one (known) anonymous complaint against the Living Nativity in school.

Actually, according to the local media there was not only the family that was suing but other families that objected but did not want to go on the record because of concerns of retaliation.

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Gryphon66

"Most" Christians are not against Halloween. "Some" Christians are.
It's all about costumes and candy.

How is it back in the day when I was a kid Halloween was celebrated and I never heard a peep about it being wrong, back when Christians were even more devout,

Now all of a sudden there are issues.

Our town stopped allowing schools to celebrate Halloween about twenty years ago, not because of religion, but because some children couldn't afford costumes.

But I remember making our own crazy costumes.

Jehovah witnesses are not allowed to celebrate Halloween or holidays, or birthdays.

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
I don't really understand the whole "being offended" thing.

There is very little out there (if anything) that "offends" me.

For some religous believers anything mystical, dark magic, or contacting restless dead spirits is strictly forbidden.

Some fear you can become possessed by the spirit of someone who died. Basically, religion is fear based. It's a real fear.

Some schools now have Harvest or Fall festivals. They still dress up, but not allowed to be anything that might be associated with evil (witches, ghosts, devil, zombies, etched).

originally posted by: DelMarvel

originally posted by: Annee

And as far as who complained, be aware that there was only one (known) anonymous complaint against the Living Nativity in school.

Actually, according to the local media there was not only the family that was suing but other families that objected but did not want to go on the record because of concerns of retaliation.

OK. Why I put (known) in parentheses. I had read about the actual lawsuit, but was unsure if there were others.

Still, it only takes one. And is not right to use that argument only for the side you agree with.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: Bluntone22
a reply to: Gryphon66

"Most" Christians are not against Halloween. "Some" Christians are.
It's all about costumes and candy.

How is it back in the day when I was a kid Halloween was celebrated and I never heard a peep about it being wrong, back when Christians were even more devout,

I don't know that it has anything to do with being "devout." I think there are significant elements in right wing evangelical Christianity that are becoming ever weirder and more extreme.

For example: truth-out.org...:prayer-warriors-and-palin-organizing-spiritual-warfare-to-take-over-america

As you say the concern about the demonic aspect of Halloween is newer. I have a very large extended religious family. Halloween was not an issue fifty years ago but is to many now.

originally posted by: Annee
So, the BIG question. Does Halloween violate Separation of Church and State? Or should it?

Is it so offensive to some religious believers that they must avoid it?

And as far as who complained, be aware that there was only one (known) anonymous complaint against the Living Nativity in school.

That is the point that if we go by the definition the left uses of church and state then all semblance of religion should be removed to be completely separate from gov.. This is the tool being used to tear away at out traditions and culture. It is completely against what the founders meant by separation of church and state. If we take that definition completely literal then even religious people will have to be removed from gov. It is time for common sense.

originally posted by: deadeyedick

originally posted by: Annee
So, the BIG question. Does Halloween violate Separation of Church and State? Or should it?

Is it so offensive to some religious believers that they must avoid it?

And as far as who complained, be aware that there was only one (known) anonymous complaint against the Living Nativity in school.

That is the point that if we go by the definition the left uses of church and state . . .

Seriously?

originally posted by: deadeyedick
It is completely against what the founders meant by separation of church and state. If we take that definition completely literal then even religious people will have to be removed from gov. .

Talk about a gigantic Straw Man. That's ridiculous and no one is advocating that. People have the right to free exercise of their religion and can't be removed from a job for that or for their religious beliefs.

This is about the State endorsing a religion or conducting religious indoctrination or ritual.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Squirlli

I THOUGHT America was supposed to be a melting pot of cultures and beliefs. Like a big 'ol pot luck of freedom.
That it was not only allowed but ok to openly and freely practice your religion and cultural practices here in America without fear of persecution. within reason. Not that Halloween is a religious practice (though have you seen how some people decorate?)

My
It is. But, this thread is about participation in a public (government) school.

Christmas trees are allowed because they have been accepted by society as multi-cultural.

Nativities are not allowed because they are specific to one religion.

So, then we have Halloween. Some children can not participate because of religious belief. Is this a problem that should fall under Separation of Church and State?

My daughter is a teacher trees ornaments even Santa are forbidden decorations. As are bunnies and eggs at Easter.

a reply to: Annee

For real is this total separation of church and state purely physical or did the founders believe thoughts of gov. employees also the property of gov.? Why should we allow soldiers celebrate Christmas or any holyday for that matter. They are 100% gov. property yet we allow this mingling of church and state to go on unchecked?

I guess I am hoping you all would state your boundaries and total goals in the "non existant war".

a reply to: Annee

Well, you can't change someone's opinions with logic and reason when their opinion isn't based on either...and you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into it in the first place.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: Annee

For real is this total separation of church and state purely physical or did the founders believe thoughts of gov. employees also the property of gov.? Why should we allow soldiers celebrate Christmas or any holyday for that matter. They are 100% gov. property yet we allow this mingling of church and state to go on unchecked?

I guess I am hoping you all would state your boundaries and total goals in the "non existant war".

I've stated the "boundaries" over and over and over again.

It's about government endorsing religion. It's not about the "thoughts of gov. employees" or anyone else.

Once again, that's a huge straw man that you just keep repeating.

originally posted by: grandmakdw

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Squirlli

I THOUGHT America was supposed to be a melting pot of cultures and beliefs. Like a big 'ol pot luck of freedom.
That it was not only allowed but ok to openly and freely practice your religion and cultural practices here in America without fear of persecution. within reason. Not that Halloween is a religious practice (though have you seen how some people decorate?)

My
It is. But, this thread is about participation in a public (government) school.

Christmas trees are allowed because they have been accepted by society as multi-cultural.

Nativities are not allowed because they are specific to one religion.

So, then we have Halloween. Some children can not participate because of religious belief. Is this a problem that should fall under Separation of Church and State?

My daughter is a teacher trees ornaments even Santa are forbidden decorations. As are bunnies and eggs at Easter.

Her school still has Easter?

originally posted by: MystikMushroom
a reply to: Annee

Well, you can't change someone's opinions with logic and reason when their opinion isn't based on either...and you can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into it in the first place.

originally posted by: Annee
So, the BIG question. Does Halloween violate Separation of Church and State? Or should it?

Is it so offensive to some religious believers that they must avoid it?

And as far as who complained, be aware that there was only one (known) anonymous complaint against the Living Nativity in school.

Actually I see the whole thing as ridiculous yes it is a religious holiday. It is a pagan religious holiday, that is quite clear. If one wants to ban all religious celebrations in school then to be consistent one must ban Halloween.
Most people are ignorantly unaware that it is related to all Saints Day and was practice the night before and it piggybacked on pagan tradition as frequently happened in the Middle Ages and earlier. Satanism and Wicca are not related to the holiday . That is a mythology created by weirdo Christians,and I am a Christian.

That being said I think banning any holiday that has traditionally been in the schools is totally absurd as it teaches people about different religions. It teaches people about different cultures and the all inclusive don't hurt anyone's feelings, strips people of the opportunity to learn about other cultures

But if your standard is no religious holidays are to be celebrate or acknowledged in schools, then along with that insane and inane idea one must ban Halloween which I think is absurd .