Turkey shoots down Russian jet

a reply to: Crumbles

That seemed a little high so I looked it up. It actually was 36% in 1995, before age of 55 that is.

Nowadays it is 25%, still very high though.

The number is based on any alcohol related cause.

www.bbc.com...

The study, in The Lancet, says 25% of Russian men die before they are 55, and most of the deaths are down to alcohol. The comparable UK figure is 7%. Causes of death include liver disease and alcohol poisoning. Many also die in accidents or after getting into fights

a reply to: enlightenedservant

Actually the US has held its people responsible so maybe you can give us specific examples of which issues you are referring to. As for allies take it up with those countries you have issues with. I find it hypocritical to ignore the abuses caused by Assad and his regime, not to mention Iran and theirs - both nations which sponsor terrorism via Hezbollah and Hamas.

There is a difference in collateral damage and the intentional targeting of civilians, which Syria has been doing.

As for Turkey again you seem to be ignoring the fact Syrian warplanes have been shot down when they violated Turkish airspace, not to mention Syrian artillery being fired into Turkey near refugee camps. Or Syria shooting down Turkish aircraft when it violated their airspace.

Do you really think Russia would tolerate armed Turkish warplanes violating its airspace? The opposite holds true and since Russia has made it clear they are their to fight ISIS they have no grounds for entering Turkish airspace. Russia using the same lie - our forces got lost - didn't work in Ukraine and didn't work in Turkey.

You guys also seem to ignore the fact Syria has stated it welcomes foreign aircraft in the fight against ISIS. Any examples of US aircraft / coalition aircraft attacking Syrian government forces? Are you intentionally ignoring the Syrian position because it undermines the argument about violating Syrian airspace?

a reply to: Vector99

If true I bet Putin just had a facepalm moment.

I'm thinking it may be about time to skunk works this one tbh. If this had really happened we would be hearing something a little more solid by now you would think...

a reply to: markosity1973

Oh God, don't poke the Russian bear Turkey.

Except the fact Russia has an armed aircraft not only in Turkish airspace it also violated a NATO member, so the Russian bear better hope he didn't wake up a big gun to handle that bear.

His best bet would be to take this error and let it go, as he can't afford anything bigger to get involved in.

a reply to: RickyD

I'm thinking it may be about time to skunk works this one tbh. If this had really happened we would be hearing something a little more solid by now you would think..

Not always.

Russia isn't going to admit it, but if verified it doesn't bode well.

Time will tell.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Who knows.. Maybe the Russia aircraft was brought down by a Ukrainian BUK fired from Ukraine.

If a Russia military aircraft was shot down in Turkish airspace Turkey nor NATO would keep it a secret.

There are three kinds of posters to this thread...

Those that become scared witless at unconfirmed reports, reacting as if they are confirmed. We can call these imbeciles.
There those who want unconfirmed reports to be true. We can call them morons.
Lastly, there are those who read the source article , and being somewhat informed and intelligent, immediately recognise a scaremonger. We can call these mature and responsible adults.

Then again, believe what you want.

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Reopened at 10:48 AM EDT

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Except the fact Russia has an armed aircraft not only in Turkish airspace it also violated a NATO member, so the Russian bear better hope he didn't wake up a big gun to handle that bear. His best bet would be to take this error and let it go, as he can't afford anything bigger to get involved in.

What about the armed NATO members' planes violating Syria's airspace? Why is that not a problem? They are actually dropping weapons over Syria. Who gave them permission.

By what UN mandate? There no legal basis for them to fly over Syria.

a reply to: JonStone

Just watching the news, and there has been a terrorist attack committed in Ankara..would that be Russian retaliation for the shooting down of the aircraft?

originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: JonStone

Just watching the news, and there has been a terrorist attack committed in Ankara..would that be Russian retaliation for the shooting down of the aircraft?

When it comes to Putin.... you just never know!

a reply to: RogueWave

except for the fact, like Russia, the west was invited in by Syria. Secondly trying to invoke NATO into the equation is just all sorts of fail on your part. NATO is not involved in air strikes in Syria so please get your facts correct before making claims that are not supported by fact.

Syria welcomes U.S. strikes against ISIS there, with conditions

"Syria is ready to cooperate and coordinate with regional and international efforts to combat terror in accordance with U.N. resolutions and respect of Syrian sovereignty," Foreign Minister Walid al-Moallem told a press conference in Damascus.

"Everyone is welcome, including Britain and the United States, to take action against ISIS and Nusra with a prior full coordination with the Syrian government," al-Moallem continued.

The foreign minister warned that any action taken without direct agreement from Damascus would be an "aggression" against Syrian territory and that Syria would not stay idle.

Syria says U.S. informed it of planned attack on Islamists hours before air strikes

BEIRUT (Reuters) - Syria said on Tuesday that U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry had told the Damascus government in a letter delivered by Iraq that the United States and its allies were going to attack Islamic State in Syria, hours before the air strikes took place.

Damascus, which had said any air strikes on Syria must have its approval, did not condemn the attacks launched by the United States with the help of Gulf states and Jordan against Islamic State and al Qaeda-affiliated militants.

A Syrian analyst interviewed on tightly-controlled Syrian state TV said the air strikes did not amount to an act of aggression because the government had been notified in advance.

The US nor the west has violated any international laws considering Syria welcomed them in to fight ISIS, which is exactly what the airstrikes have been concentrating on.

a reply to: Xcathdra

"Everyone is welcome, including Britain and the United States, to take action against ISIS and Nusra with a prior full coordination with the Syrian government," al-Moallem continued. The foreign minister warned that any action taken without direct agreement from Damascus would be an "aggression" against Syrian territory and that Syria would not stay idle.

But they did not give permission, there was no prior full coordination and there is no UN mandate.

a reply to: RogueWave

The response from the Syrian government does not seem to agree with your assessment. You should take your objections up with the Syrian government.

The second article I linked to says the Syrian government was notified and has not objected to the actions. I find it ironic you are going to try and use the UN mandate argument when the claims being made are Russia didn't need one because they were invited in by the Syrian government.

If that's your augment then Russia is violating Syrian territorial sovereignty since they don't have a UN mandate either.

a reply to: tony9802

The bombing targeted pro Kurdish people at a pro Kurdish rally. The bombings were not even against the Turks. The Kurds are even accusing the Turks.

Don't let this get in the way of the Putin blame game, and just ignore that the whole "jet shot down" is nothing but a rumor.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Xcathdra

Russia shot down one of our SR-71s. Nothing really transpired. You sneak around in another man's yard and you may startle him, part of the game. Big if that it happened and even bigger if do we get informed. It will be swept away and apologized for.

It wasn't a SR-71. It was a U-2.

a reply to: Xcathdra

If that's your augment then Russia is violating Syrian territorial sovereignty since they don't have a UN mandate either.

No, because they don't need a mandate when the country gives permission.

Please post the source where it says that they gave permission to the US.

And letting them know that they are going to bommb their territorty hours in advance is not full coordination with the Syrian government. They didnt even ask permission, and Syria didn't invite them.

The propaganda war is in full swing, first it's 4 Russian missiles crash in Iran enroute to Syria, and now it's the claim a Russian jet was shot down by Turkey - all from unsubstantiated sources and rumors on social media.

Sorry gang but this looks like yet another hoax claim with no credible source.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: enlightenedservant

Actually the US has held its people responsible so maybe you can give us specific examples of which issues you are referring to. As for allies take it up with those countries you have issues with. I find it hypocritical to ignore the abuses caused by Assad and his regime, not to mention Iran and theirs - both nations which sponsor terrorism via Hezbollah and Hamas.

There is a difference in collateral damage and the intentional targeting of civilians, which Syria has been doing.

As for Turkey again you seem to be ignoring the fact Syrian warplanes have been shot down when they violated Turkish airspace, not to mention Syrian artillery being fired into Turkey near refugee camps. Or Syria shooting down Turkish aircraft when it violated their airspace.

Do you really think Russia would tolerate armed Turkish warplanes violating its airspace? The opposite holds true and since Russia has made it clear they are their to fight ISIS they have no grounds for entering Turkish airspace. Russia using the same lie - our forces got lost - didn't work in Ukraine and didn't work in Turkey.

You guys also seem to ignore the fact Syria has stated it welcomes foreign aircraft in the fight against ISIS. Any examples of US aircraft / coalition aircraft attacking Syrian government forces? Are you intentionally ignoring the Syrian position because it undermines the argument about violating Syrian airspace?

BS I'm in the US & I'm an American. What people have been held responsible for the 160,000 plus dead civilians in our Iraq War? Or the 80,000 plus dead Afghan civilians from our occupation? Or the millions of dead civilians in the Vietnam War? Or the entire torture "enhanced interrogation" scandal that our government won't even fully reveal, much less prosecute? Civilians killed by the US are literally considered "collateral damage". How is that holding people responsible?

Also, you should've read my post instead of kneejerk reacting to it. In my initial post, I literally wrote this about Turkey: "I agree that legally they would be within their right to do so." That's because I think all sovereign nations should have the right to defend themselves, just as all people should have the right to defend themselves. So don't twist my words.

But many of the Western flights are providing support for the "moderate rebels". WTF does that have to do w/fighting ISIS? The entire reason those groups are "rebels" is because they're rebelling against Assad, not against ISIS. We provide funding, training & arms to groups that are fighting against Assad. That clearly doesn't fit your description of Syria "welcoming foreign aircraft in the fight against ISIS."

In fact, the reality is just the opposite. The Western countries have been bombing in Syria for more than a year now, and ISIS was just as strong as ever. So I find it hard to believe that our militaries are only there to fight ISIS when we're both arming, funding, and training groups that are against Assad and get angry at Russia for actually destroying ISIS & al Nusra positions.