Here’s What The World Thinks About The American Response To The Oregon Massacre

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: Sublimecraft

No offense but no wonder Hitler marched straight through Europe without batting an eye.......

That is......until the big bad Americans with guns came to save them........

Oh, that's so correct, the years 1939 - 1942 never occurred did they? America played a key part in WW2, of that there's no question. As did most European and Commonwealth countries and Russia, but I know your history lessons over there get confused.

Anyway, what has that to do with anything apart from the tired old argument that somehow America singlehandedly ended WW2? It's nothing to do with current shootings.

Lend Lease started in March of 1941
History, it isn't just a EU thing.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
So are you trying to claim that this Wikipedia page is incorrect, where it states that no permit or firearm registration is required by law in all those US states?

No, I am claiming you do not understand the law. You are still prohibited from knowingly selling a firearm to any prohibited individual.

That's not what you claimed. You tried claiming that you have to have a permit and register the gun in all states, which is clearly not true and makes it easy for criminals to just drive to a different state and exploit said loopholes. Then sell the guns for a large profit, in another state where the regulations are more restrictive.

Do you honestly believe criminals aren't competent enough to simply cross a state border and exploit a loophole in gun purchasing laws?

That obviously explains why the US has an over all murder rate 5 times higher than other developed nations and why mass shootings occur so often, usually in the states with shockingly lax gun regulations.

originally posted by: Mianeye
a reply to: Vasa Croe

There is still the factor of unknown.

What would it look like if there were no gun regulation and control implemented.

My bet is that homicide rate would have gone up...high.

But, it is unknown, so really not usable, just as your "homicide rate stayed the same there fore, gun control and regulation did nothing" is pretty much not usable either, as we can not see what the control and restriction actually prevented.

Here is an over all homicide chart that maybe or maybe not paints another picture.

SOURCE

LOL! How is mine unusable? The gun control advocates consistently state that gun control will stop violence. I showed it did not and it actually increased, just the weapon used changed.

Your homicide chart is also not taking into account the manner of reporting of homicide by each country. For instance, the UK may have someone that kills 45 people but is only convicted of 1 or 2 of them. The only homicide that goes on file in that case are the ones convicted, so the other 43 or 44 are not recognized in that sense. Many countries have a similar way of reporting to skew the actual numbers of homicide. It is well documented how the process works and available to search. I have posted about it before and don't feel like rehashing.

So, as another hypothetical, say we heavily regulate guns in the US and, as I have shown it happened in Australia, homicide increases? Is the issue still guns? Or does it become the next weapon of choice?

a reply to: ladyinwaiting

Yes I agree with preventing those who have been judged a danger to society from owning guns. These laws are already on the books. The right use of our resources is to try to find a better way to diagnose metal illness than trying to ban guns or even certain type of guns.

a reply to: Kryties

The problem is, the philosophy politics are trying to adopt is Plato's vision, which is virtually a police state. The british has basically implanted this philosophy in their country,

Have we learned nothing from prohibition?

What did prohibition on alcohol do? Create a black market, with powerful criminals, which promote more violence and terror. People are forced underground and when they are caught even though they didnt really do anything wrong, and probably never shot anyone in their lives, ends up trying to defend themselves because they know the laws were unjust. Prohibition of alcohol ended and they realized this mistake only to repeat it with Cannabis, and this created the cartels through the war on drugs. Look at mexico, and how civilians are terrorized by the black market, and most of them are helpless because they dont own guns. These cartels run their lives through fear and they were created by prohibition laws or government through propaganda.

Then we had the war on drugs, that went well. How many criminals were created overnight by passing these laws?

Now they want to do the same with guns... inside the U.S... where the constitution protects "WE THE PEOPLE" from dictatorship.

Don't forget, also that there are those who want these laws passed and will do anything (Including hiring a shooter) to advance an agenda. Problem-reaction-solution.

They cause the problem (hire a shooter) seek a reaction (Public outcry) and provide the solution (Treason against the constitution of the United States, by overwriting the sacred law of the land).

In short, Plato's philosophy is not welcomed here for true Americans, true Christians & Jews.

To those interested Watch This video and Spread the awareness.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

Breaking news: criminals don't have to drive to another state to obtain a gun. They can often times do it on their own street. Barring that, in their own city.

It's already illegal to sell a gun to a convicted felon. Closing the private sale "loophole" won't do anything other than make it more illegal to sell a gun to a felon.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Vasa Croe
a reply to: Kryties

LOL! But I thought this thread was about "MASS SHOOTINGS" as you have pointed out so many times on every page, and about "powerful weapons". Don't link stats that have nothing to do with your OP please.

I wouldnt have to link those stats if posters didnt insist on claiming things that are simply not true.

Everything I have claimed IS true and I have backed them up with government sources. Not biased articles by the anti-gun crowd.

I have also pointed out that the case you have in the title of this thread didn't even use the "powerful" weapons you speak of to kill the students in the manner you are proposing of mass shooting. Sure 9 people died, but they were executed one by one after being asked a question. That could have been done with a knife too.

The shooter had 5 pistols and one rifle, which was found nowhere near the shooter when the police came, which lends to the fact that each death was a result of close proximity shot to the head with a pistol, which is what eyewitnesses have said is what happened.

So tired of these ignorant rants on guns when it seems regulation of them does nothing to actually stop people from killing.

originally posted by: Subaeruginosa
That's not what you claimed. You tried claiming that you have to have a permit and register the gun in all states, which is clearly not true and makes it easy for criminals to just drive to a different state and exploit said loopholes. Then sell the guns for a large profit, in another state where the regulations are more restrictive.

I did not say that. You said, 'In your state maybe, but you can still buy a gun without any of those checks from a private buyer...'

I cannot do that, end of story.

Do you honestly believe criminals aren't competent enough to simply cross a state border and exploit a loophole in gun purchasing laws?

Wow. So criminals do not follow the law? Guess we should make more of them.

That obviously explains why the US has an over all murder rate 5 times higher than other developed nations and why mass shootings occur so often, usually in the states with shockingly lax gun regulations.

Except that mass shootings account for a very small amount of the overall number.

a reply to: Subaeruginosa

That's not what you claimed. You tried claiming that you have to have a permit and register the gun in all states, which is clearly not true and makes it easy for criminals to just drive to a different state and exploit said loopholes. Then sell the guns for a large profit, in another state where the regulations are more restrictive.

I can't drive across the Mason Dixon line into Maryland (legally) with a handgun.
You are right though.... It makes it easy for CRIMINALS to drive into another state.... because criminals don't mind breaking laws.

originally posted by: Bobaganoosh

The leading cause of death is being born.

Funnily enough the leading cause of death is also death.

Please explain what that has to do with the topic and what your opinion on the article is that I linked here?

Has anybody ever taken upper level statistic courses, and learned how to manipulate figures to show just about anything you want to show, depending on which formula you use? If you have, then you know. When I see statistics the first thing I do is check to see who came up with them, or who was paid to come up with them.

It's common sense to know our recent mass murders were perpetrated with guns. Lots and lots of guns. I don't have to read any stats whatsoever to know that.

Just sayin'.

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: Sublimecraft

No offense but no wonder Hitler marched straight through Europe without batting an eye.......

That is......until the big bad Americans with guns came to save them........

Oh, that's so correct, the years 1939 - 1942 never occurred did they? America played a key part in WW2, of that there's no question. As did most European and Commonwealth countries and Russia, but I know your history lessons over there get confused.

Anyway, what has that to do with anything apart from the tired old argument that somehow America singlehandedly ended WW2? It's nothing to do with current shootings.

Lend Lease started in March of 1941
History, it isn't just a EU thing.

You are right, of course. That's when America started selling at huge profit to the Allied powers. I should have mentioned that America went for the money first, but that is usually seen as a touchy subject.

Here's another statistic...every time there is a mass shooting in the US, you can guarantee that a US government spokesperson will be on TV like a flash lamenting current laws and pushing lawmakers to review regulations.

There is simply no bigger more vocal advocate for the gun-grab from the US citizen than the US government.

I'm not even going to post a source for that because the Oregon shooter was barely dead before Obama was lamenting the laws.

Now Hillary is using the shooting for her platform.

US government = worlds largest pusher to disarm US citizens (right behind the United nations)

Anyway, don't mind me, please....continue - enjoy them whilst you still have them, because one thing is statistically apparent 100% of the time - the US government will NEVER stop lamenting until you are all disarmed or so regulated that you will be micro-chipped, tracked and annually psyche evaluated if you want to own a gun.

It's coming, and when it does you can blame collective complacency because you refused to agree (or even look at) a solution to ensure your 2nd amendment right was protected.

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: Kryties

Have we learned nothing from prohibition?

Prohibition banned ALL alcohol, and so a black market was formed.

As has been stated MANY times in this thread alone, common sense gun RESTRICTIONS does NOT equal a total ban on guns.

originally posted by: Vasa Croe


Everything I have claimed IS true and I have backed them up with government sources. Not biased articles by the anti-gun crowd.

Prove they are biased and prove they are wrong.

Just because they do not agree with what you think does not make them wrong mate, just in case you were confused.

a reply to: Kryties

What guns will you ban? And why? What laws would you pass? And why?

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: SoulSurfer
a reply to: Kryties

Have we learned nothing from prohibition?

Prohibition banned ALL alcohol, and so a black market was formed.

As has been stated MANY times in this thread alone, common sense gun RESTRICTIONS does NOT equal a total ban on guns.

"Common Sense" gun restriction also does not equal less murder.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: butcherguy

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: IslandOfMisfitToys
a reply to: Sublimecraft

No offense but no wonder Hitler marched straight through Europe without batting an eye.......

That is......until the big bad Americans with guns came to save them........

Oh, that's so correct, the years 1939 - 1942 never occurred did they? America played a key part in WW2, of that there's no question. As did most European and Commonwealth countries and Russia, but I know your history lessons over there get confused.

Anyway, what has that to do with anything apart from the tired old argument that somehow America singlehandedly ended WW2? It's nothing to do with current shootings.

Lend Lease started in March of 1941
History, it isn't just a EU thing.

You are right, of course. That's when America started selling at huge profit to the Allied powers. I should have mentioned that America went for the money first, but that is usually seen as a touchy subject.

In general, a large portion of the U.S. Lend-Lease aid was simply written off. Both Roosevelt and his successor Truman considered the fighting and sacrifice of the Allied soldiers to be sufficient repayment.

iipdigital.usembassy

originally posted by: TechniXcality
a reply to: Kryties

There is no #ing debate, our 2nd amendment guarentess us the right, period end of story. Guns are not going away, do you even realize that there would be a revolution and war in the street if a grab was made by the government towards guns. You do get that right?

Not really pal.

US citizens would give up their guns and not even blink an eye.

We have given up rights, and freedoms over the passed 15 years that are frightening, but most people in the USA as long as they have a six pack of beer, abundant processed foods, Monday night football, and dancing with the stars, can be fleeced into doing just about anything.

Let's see we allow rogue politicians to spend money on things we have no idea where the money goes.

Bankers to run wild and commit unspeakable acts without a single one being prosecuted and convicted.

We allow those same politicians to take away constitutional rights under anything that implies or resembles fear. ( Patriot act )

Our guns have become a false sense of security, just like a child with his security blanket.

Unfortunately we cannot regulate insanity. What we need is a close look at our fragmented world and the USA just happens to represent a cross section of the entire world, since we are truly a world-wide melting pot.

Our current MO and lifestyles are broken at best, if we don't take the time to start enjoying life instead of worshiping bling things will get worse.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Vasa Croe


Everything I have claimed IS true and I have backed them up with government sources. Not biased articles by the anti-gun crowd.

Prove they are biased and prove they are wrong.

Just because they do not agree with what you think does not make them wrong mate, just in case you were confused.

Prove they are on topic.....YOUR TOPIC.

Mother Jones has been refuted many times in many ways because of the bias and misquoting. This is why I tend to use actual government stats without skew to show my points.

It would be like me using an Aussie tabloid to prove something to you.....if you don't know these things then you likely shouldn't use the sources....it only makes your argument look that much more foolish.

I don't need them to agree with me personally....I use actual statistical data that proves less guns do not equal less murder.