Wacky

a reply to: randyvs

Yes you are religious I see this often If you follow Christ you are a Christian and religious.
But keep on denouncing your religion....

Thing is you have proved many times that you do not have to be a good person to be a religious person but when all you have to do to get into heaven in your book is to say "I accept Jesus" I expect If true heaven is going to be full of evil folk.

a reply to: randyvs

A few weeks ago I got together with a very good friend of mine from my early childhood - right up to now

We hadn't seen each other in years - so this was kind of a big deal

We were best friends for years - we're still tight - but we both have different views on life

Within 15 minutes of getting coffee and sitting down she was asking me about my beliefs. We've had conversations before - obviously. We've talked about everything

This was more like a grilling...before I had a chance to really say anything she was trying to put me in my place - and called me more or less an idiot for not believing in god - something she assumed from the few things I managed to blurt out during her combination rant/interrogation

Then, before I could make any kind of measured response she said she refused to talk about it any more - she was going to take the high road...and let me off the hook

Honestly - I would never do this to anyone - least of all a friend. A good friend. I've experienced similar confrontations from all sorts - but was completely blindsided by this one

I believe we all come by our beliefs honestly - and we're each and every one of us entitled to sort through this life as best we can, however we can. So long as we try our best to get along

I know all people are different Randy - but I'm tired of this aggressive religiousness - and arrogance. You say you aren't religious... So what?

Believe what you want to believe - as long as you don't ask me to live according to your beliefs - we're good

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

I had a very similar experience. An old boyfriend contacted me by email and we had some great discussions for a few days. He dropped a few hints that let me know he was religious now and when he grilled me about my religious beliefs, I gingerly answered honestly and politely. After a bit of a confrontation on his part, trying to change my mind and calling me a few names, he stopped communication and I never heard from him again...

I love how you say that we all come by our beliefs honestly and we're entitled to make our OWN way in this world.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

It's more than uncomfortable - right?

:-)

It's insulting - and a little mean

I've had religious friends that were concerned about my soul - and you know what? Even though I don't see things the way they do - I felt the love

This is different. What seems to be happening lately is a kind of accounting - drawing lines in the sand. Not good - but this is where we are more often than not these days

I know the Christians feel that they're under attack. I wonder if they factor in how hostile they can appear at times - even when they're trying to sound all friendly like

a reply to: boymonkey74

I think it is possible to follow Christ and not be a Christian or religious.
Christian is such a politically loaded label. It generally means these days that you are a right wing Conservative, with old fashioned 'values' who hates those who's opinions differ from yours,Liberals and gays, you either love Her Madge or the Tea Party, consider the Bible inerrants, and the inspired Word of God, support slavery, anti feminism ,capitalism and Israel, and your morals to be superior to everyone else, guaranteed by that Label, I'm a Christian!!
Despite the fact few of these "Christians" actually follow what Christ actually taught, instead choosing to follow the delusional wing nut, Paul, I really think "Pauline" is a better term. Or nutters.

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

Here's the thing though, it can be very difficult to have a close relationship with someone who does not share at least the basic underpinnings of your beliefs.

You guys think that we come off as hostile, but have you ever considered how you might sound in return to us? Perceived hostility can be a two-way street.

a reply to: Antidisestablishment

I think you let other people label you and define who and what you are if you deny that you are Christian for those reasons because you think that to take up the cross and admit to being a follower of Christ is to be all those things. Go back and read Christ again and find all those things.

Christ never said it would be easy to follow Him. In fact, He said we would be hated for it for all kinds of reasons.

You can either be popular or be Christian. It's very hard to truly be both.

a reply to: ketsuko

Christ never said it would be easy to follow Him. In fact, He said we would be hated for it for all kinds of reasons.

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

One does not have to accept a label to follow Jesus brother...

None of the apostles were "Christian"... Nor was Jesus...

Following the church is what makes a person "Christian"... Not following Jesus

a reply to: ketsuko

You can either be popular or be Christian. It's very hard to truly be both.

What a bizarre thing to say

Popular with who?

Are atheists popular?

a reply to: Akragon

Following Jesus more or less makes you Christian as He is the Christ.

Then he said to them all: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross daily and follow me. 24 For whoever wants to save their life will lose it, but whoever loses their life for me will save it. 25 What good is it for someone to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit their very self? 26 Whoever is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of them when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 9 23-26

a reply to: ketsuko

He is the Christ... but that does not mean those that follow him must accept the label given my men...

the very word means "Christ Like"... and I challenge anyone Christian or otherwise to claim they are Christ like

a reply to: Spiramirabilis

“I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. 17 Be on your guard; you will be handed over to the local councils and be flogged in the synagogues. 18 On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19 But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20 for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

21 “Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death. 22 You will be hated by everyone because of me, but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 23 When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matthew 10: 16-23

Atheists have it easier in the sense they can go with the flow and do as is needed to fit in. We are supposed to live within the code as best we can; cling to our Bibles I believe is how it was sneeringly referred to by the president. And, of course, when we fail, all the world holds us up for ridicule and mockery.

It is not easy.

a reply to: Akragon

You are splitting hairs, trying to parse words.

I won't and don't deny Him. YMMV.

a reply to: Akragon

Heck it is the easiest religion to follow isn't it? just accept Jesus and you go to heaven even If you are a twat.
Just shows why it is so popular doesn't it? an easy get out of jail free card be a twat all your life accept Jesus and all is forgiven....

a reply to: ketsuko

I didn't ask you to deny him...

Why would I do that being a follower myself?

What I said was you don't need the label to follow him... its as simple as that...

Follow his rules... that's all it takes

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Akragon

Heck it is the easiest religion to follow isn't it? just accept Jesus and you go to heaven even If you are a twat.
Just shows why it is so popular doesn't it? an easy get out of jail free card be a twat all your life accept Jesus and all is forgiven....

No that's Paulianity...

Loving others isn't always an easy thing to do, no matter who you might be

a reply to: Akragon

Do most Christians follow the words of Paul?.
Oh and I think you are wrong I find it easy to love but hard to hate.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: Akragon

Do most Christians follow the words of Paul?.
Oh and I think you are wrong I find it easy to love but hard to hate.

Of course... that's the easy path... the golden ticket to sin...

Everything is already covered and forgiven in Paulianity... a free pass comes with belief.

Jesus said nothing like that...

Oh and I think you are wrong I find it easy to love but hard to hate.

Most do not... Would you find it easy to love someone that has insulted you? Betrayed you? Hurt those that you love?

its far from the easy path... in fact he said specifically... it is the narrow path, and few find it

originally posted by: ketsuko
You guys think that we come off as hostile, but have you ever considered how you might sound in return to us? Perceived hostility can be a two-way street.

I make a point of being respectful of people. I told this ex-boyfriend that I was very happy for him that he had found something that made him so happy. That just pissed him off. What am I supposed to say? I have had many encounters with religious people who simply won't take no for an answer until it ruins the relationship. And it's not just with religion. I was out of touch with my sister for over a year because she found something she fervently believed in and wanted me to believe it, too. She pushed and pushed and said things that really hurt me, simply because I wouldn't "get on the bandwagon" (her words). Her husband berated me for not believing in anything, sitting on the fence, and not "standing for" anything. I finally told them that if they didn't stop, we would have to sever contact. So, we did.

After the year and a half, I called her and she was SO sorry! Her son had done the same thing I did. And she realized how she had pushed people away. She didn't even believe it anymore.

The other day, I was filling water at a machine and there was a man using the other machine, so we made small talk. I was short one quarter and he gave me one. As i left, he handed me a paper that said something about God. I looked him in the eye and smiled and said, "Thank you so much".

It's not like I'm an asshole or anything. And I'm definitely not hostile. I don't know how I come across here, but I'm actually a pretty cool person. Most of my family is religious. My favorite brother is a good Christian and we LOVE having him and his wife here. They are welcome anytime and have stayed for weeks at a time. They pray before eating, mention God now and then, but never push their beliefs on us AT ALL.

My point is that it's not religion that's the problem, it's the pushiness, and it's VERY common in people who are religious. Frankly, it's a bit of an insult when people make the assumption that they know better than I do, what is right for me. That's the biggest problem I have. People keep trying to sell me something I've known about since I was an infant. If I wanted to pick it up or was looking for something to "fulfill my life", I would certainly have resources. It's not like I live under a rock.

Do I seem hostile to you? Interestingly, I've always wanted to start a thread and ask how I am perceived here, just to get an idea of what people think. I can't tell how people think about me, and I'm curious. But somehow I think a thread like that would bomb!LOL!

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

I don't think it would bomb at all...

I've been here almost 5 years, and I've always found you to be the voice of reason in a sea of WTF's