MASS SHOOTING reported at Oregon college campus 15 dead atleast MANY MORE INJURED

originally posted by: Power_Semi

I'm not an American and I get upset at the continuous and endless and pointlessness of more and more of these kinds of tragedies - I get upset at the needless loss of American lives.

You are an American, what you seem to be upset about is that someone might take away some of your possessions.

Lives vs possessions - what an aspirational dream you Americans have.

I want what's mine, and if one of my fellow countrymen has to die for me to have it - tough.

Not cool.

Our leaders are definitely failing with figuring out how to appropriately handle this issue. Of course, it seems that within the last 10 or so years, our leaders have pretty much failed to handle much of anything very well at all.

Point of note - I get upset when anyone tries to take the things I own - have bought and paid for with my time, stress, health, etc.

Most importantly - I get upset when people try to take away my right and ability to adequately defend myself and my family from threats.

People fought and died to give us those freedoms to begin with and it's a disservice to not do everything you can to protect those freedoms from being taken away.

If someone wants a gun, they will get one no matter what.

Law or no law..

That is the sad fact.

Or they will use something else to hurt people..

It is very sad... We should focus more on our society and its health, and start there..

Yet all in all I am not against stricter gun laws, due to our society, kinda sad for me to write, I think it is our right to own a gun, but it might make things harder for someone to hurt innocent people, or it may not. In any case this story is very sad.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Answer

That's a very emotional way to ask the question.

Try a little logic sometime, it's less stressful.

With all the ridiculous strawman arguments coming out of the gun nut crowd, this is nothing in comparison.

You accuse people of making strawman arguments while you respond with nothing but theoretical statements and emotional knee-jerk nonsense.

Ironic, don't you think?

originally posted by: Kryties
Actively helping to prevent laws that would reduce gun crime gives you a level of responsibility whether you like it or not.

Except that I don't think it would make a nickel's worth of difference when there are already 300+ million guns floating around in this country. In fact, it might make matters even worse by emboldening criminals and creating a larger black market.

originally posted by: Answer


You have no information to suggest that those laws would reduce gun crime so your statement is false.

Quite to the contrary, I live in a country where we have such laws and there is an overabundance of evidence to prove that it worked.

A simple Google would have told you that and saved yourself from throwing around baseless accusations!

There is no data in the US to suggest that mass shootings are reduced by stricter gun laws.

Of course there is no data in the US as the US has never tried it. Duh!

Again, bring some facts to the table if you're going to argue this.

The FACTS are that countries like Australia and the UK have such strict gun laws and have a massive reduction in gun crime - Australia hasn't seen a single mass shooting since we introduced those laws. All of this information is freely available on Google for you to peruse - but you already knew that didn't you

originally posted by: Power_Semi

originally posted by: crazyewok

originally posted by: Power_Semi
- I get upset at the needless loss of American lives.

It not our country or our responsibility.


Not up to us to dictate there values.

If they want there silly guns? Well its up to them.

Do you argue the same for Syrian refugees, or any other form of refugee?

That their problem is not in our country and so it's not our problem?

While the US is absolutely not going to be swayed by anyone else, and it's up to them to sort out their own mess, at least trying to express some kind of rational argument might make someone think and save at least another one or two or more people from dying needlessly.

This has to stop, it can't continue.

Its completely different.

The Syrians not have have not made a choice but UK actions have messed up the ME.

USA have made a democratic choice time and again to keep the status quo with guns and unless you count the fact we wrote the bill of rights in 1689 that they based there constitution on the UK bare no responsibility in the matter.

So as tragic as the situation is. There gun laws are none of our business.

a reply to: Bicent76

Not to mention, if it wasn't a gun it would be a knife, or explosives, or a car, or any number of other methods insane people have used to commit mass murder.

One needs only look at how effective suicide bombs are. They aren't hard to make and produce greater casualties than mass shootings.

People want to focus on the guns instead of focusing on why America has so many murders and mass shootings in the first place. Access to guns doesn't CAUSE people to become psychopaths. Remove the guns and you still have someone that is capable of killing and will find a way.

originally posted by: Answer

You accuse people of making strawman arguments while you respond with nothing but theoretical statements and emotional knee-jerk nonsense.

Ironic, don't you think?

Please quote these "theoretical statements" and "emotional knee-jerk responses".

I bet my left testicle you cannot.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
He singled out Christians...perhaps we should begin to take a closer look at the PROGESSIVES now..

Not clear if that is what he did..

Plus his online profile declared his politics as "Conservative, Republican"
Profile here on a dating site: Ironcross45......
spiritualpassions.com...


Plus, Plus...Strange you have decided that only republicans are Christians? Or that no Republicans are non-Christian?

originally posted by: Kryties

Quite to the contrary, I live in a country where we have such laws and there is an overabundance of evidence to prove that it worked.

A simple Google would have told you that and saved yourself from throwing around baseless accusations!

Australia is not the United States so you've proved absolutely nothing.

Of course there is no data in the US as the US has never tried it. Duh!

Clearly you know nothing about US gun laws. Many cities have adopted gun laws nearly as strict as the UK and Australia but they saw no reduction in crime.

The FACTS are that countries like Australia and the UK have such strict gun laws and have a massive reduction in gun crime - Australia hasn't seen a single mass shooting since we introduced those laws. All of this information is freely available on Google for you to peruse - but you already knew that didn't you

So your "FACTS" are as follows:

"See this Orange? It's a citrus fruit and it is exactly the same as that Apple."

Only a fool would claim that what has (arguably) "worked" in the UK and Australia would work in the US... just because.

originally posted by: Indigo5


Anti-Depressants and Mass Shootings

Chicken or the egg? Not sure if the answer is relevant..haven't thought it out. Are they taking SSRI's cuz they are nuts or are they nuts because they are taking SSRI's.

Correlation isn't always causation..

We might have more mass shootings with less SSRI's? Despite (if accurate) data showing shooters on SSRIs.

Well about 50% of people who are clinically "depressed" don't seek treatment and thus never take SSRI's.. If "depression" were the main underlying issue we would have approximately half of mass shootings not related to anti-depressant drugs, but certain journalists claim anti-depressants have around 90%+ prevalence for mass-shootings. This would make anti-depressants the common denominator, the straw on the camel's back for someone to commit a heinous offense. It may not be while they are on the drug, but once they are in the withdrawal stages...

Think about it, if you are using a drug to maintain psychological stability, and then you stop taking that drug, you will temporarily be rendered less stable than you were to begin with. Neural receptor downregulation is nasty.

originally posted by: Thanatos0042

originally posted by: Power_Semi

I'm not an American and I get upset at the continuous and endless and pointlessness of more and more of these kinds of tragedies - I get upset at the needless loss of American lives.

You are an American, what you seem to be upset about is that someone might take away some of your possessions.

Lives vs possessions - what an aspirational dream you Americans have.

I want what's mine, and if one of my fellow countrymen has to die for me to have it - tough.

Not cool.

Our leaders are definitely failing with figuring out how to appropriately handle this issue. Of course, it seems that within the last 10 or so years, our leaders have pretty much failed to handle much of anything very well at all.

Point of note - I get upset when anyone tries to take the things I own - have bought and paid for with my time, stress, health, etc.

Most importantly - I get upset when people try to take away my right and ability to adequately defend myself and my family from threats.

People fought and died to give us those freedoms to begin with and it's a disservice to not do everything you can to protect those freedoms from being taken away.

It's impossible to answer a statement like this, you are so detached from reality over there.

You come to a conspiracy forum and talk about how the media, governement etc are trying to manipulate your thoughts and actions, and yet are incapable of seeing how your response is exactly this.

Who are you protecting your family from, and how?

What do you think is suddenly going to happen if you don't have a gun? Is the world going to end?

When have you ever needed to draw your gun to protect your family?

Never - it's like trying to argue rationally with a crazy person.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: Answer

You accuse people of making strawman arguments while you respond with nothing but theoretical statements and emotional knee-jerk nonsense.

Ironic, don't you think?

Please quote these "theoretical statements" and "emotional knee-jerk responses".

I bet my left testicle you cannot.

Already done, sir.

Paraphrasing: "The UK and Australia passed gun bans and they haven't had mass shootings so it would work in the US."
Obviously a theoretical statement and a foolish one at that.

Paraphrasing again: "How many people have to die before you give up your damn guns?"
Emotional knee-jerk response.

originally posted by: Answer
a reply to: Bicent76

Not to mention, if it wasn't a gun it would be a knife, or explosives, or a car, or any number of other methods insane people have used to commit mass murder.

Ya! That's why we read about mass pencil stabbings at schools all the time!!

If your logic begins with the premise that guns are not specifically designed to make killing easy and efficient..you might try again.

That argument always seems insanely flawed to me. Hey...If a knife or car works just as well...then why not get rid of guns? They are superfluous! Argument done? Whats the beef?

originally posted by: tiredoflooking

originally posted by: trusername
First, condolences to any one who lost somebody today.

And since this is a conspiracy site...

- news reports stated (according to this thread) shooter was in custody

- Other reports shooter shot himself

- Father keeps saying the timing for shooting with one handgun doesn't make sense on CNN

CNN interview - father repeats several time "How does that timing work? Asking someone if they're Christian and shooting and reloading and entering the classroom shooting and going to 2 classrooms..." He didn't say it doesn't seem like one shooter but he asks over and over how is it possible in the amount of time for one small handgun.

- Um who would answer I'm Christian too after seeing the others get shot?

Seriously, this was a science classroom. Not a religion class. Are we supposed to believe that there were 10 so devout christians in that room that after say by the 3rd declared and shot christian, the other 7 didn't begin to have second thoughts about how better to answer that question?


- Scully and Mulder... read your Lone Gunman

There have been films, documentaries, books explaining the shock doctrine, patterns, conspiracies and reasons behind this tired, repeated, false, lone gunman mass shooting scenario. I didn't think anyone believed this anymore. I'm a little surprised that everyone on this website and this thread isn't discussing what are we being diverted from today.


- Community Colleges may be gun free... they are also community free

If you want to bring in actors and create theater, it's certainly easier in a community college in October than an elementary school in April. Why? Because nobody knows anybody. No hall passes. Teams can walk in, set up, prep, get out. Heck community colleges are broke and could be paid off for all we know. I've heard of all kinds of financial scandals with community colleges. I would guess the aftermath is either shut it down or pour in masses of funding for healing and rebuilding.


- A society of headphones and tune out

Yes it could be a copy cat. Some sad soul who plays too much assassins creed in his mother's garage. It could be drugs, prescription or not. It could be time bomb planted seeds, black ops, who knows... but it's also all of us, we're numb and number.

- Arms in the air

How many of you got a chill when you saw the lines of exiting students with their hands on their heads and the swat teams with their guns? Does that make you feel safer? Safer like when you're shuttled like cattle through an airport and removed of your nail scissors? If I manage to hijack a plane with nail scissors, I think I kind of deserve the plane. Was it really necessary to treat traumatized students like they were all under arrest? They already had the lone gunman. So either they suspected more than one gunman or they were willing to further traumatize in order to promote a crowd control exercise.



Why? Why this time? For example...

- Dow makes a V

Hmmm Look at the markets shootings at 10:38AM PST 1:38PM EST. Dow dropped all morning then at time of the shooting Dow is at 16,133 and then bounces up 240 points to close at 16,271. I have an image I took of today but I need help uploading it here.

Here is 911 tweet showing 10:38 am PST www.npr.org...


- Russia's Putin starts first air strike attacks on Syria and leads coalition against terrorist groups.
www.bbc.com...
"They (Russia) have forced a change in the overall policy in Syria – normally no-one else in the world changes the foreign policy of the U.S.," Granville said. www.cnbc.com...


- Bad news or worse news?

The bad news is that this really happened. 10 people died, 7 were injured. One very sad man is to blame.

The worse news is it is not entirely impossible that this is fake, staged, theater, the gunman / gunmen are not dead. The students weren't students and the interviews weren't their family members. Maybe stay bullets have injured innocents or may not have. Bread and circus.

Only it's a sad old circus. Viewers have school shooting fatigue. Soon we'll all expect to raise both our hands and march out in line for a public lockdown for a possible shooter... just as bored as we stand in line now and take off our shoes and hold up our hands for the scanner booth in the airport.

How free do you feel in there?

Great post. I am always thinking CONSPIRACY after all the ridiculous crap that has gone on around previous mass shootings of late. Also this same tired repeated lone gunman profile which is like a broken record deja vu all over again. Today I watched and read here and posted here in real time. I tried to be open minded... it feels wrong in the gut. I am almost afraid to admit to being a "truther", (BTW since WHEN has searching for the truth become attached to such negative connotations! Well I guess it has done, in historical times, but we are meant to be enlightened in 2015) especially (and even??) on ATS. Don't get me wrong, I do not deny there are victims; I do not search for the truth out of disrespect for any grieving families; I simply follow my gut and want to know the truth. How can so many people just stick their heads in the sand?

Yes, I agree. In fact, now it is smart to dig for the truth.

originally posted by: Kryties

originally posted by: vor78

'Intent' doesn't make much difference at the end of the day. The end result is the same. We have 30,000+ traffic-related fatalities in this this country every year. Once simple change in the law, dramatically reducing speed limits, would undoubtedly reduce this figure dramatically, all at the cost only of driver inconvenience. So why don't we do it? It would save thousands of lives.

OK, so go about changing the traffic laws to your hearts content - and get back to the topic at hand which is GUNS, not strawman arguments that deflect from the topic.

Its only a comparison. The point is, we have tens of thousands of traffic fatalities yearly, and my guess is, you exercise your right/privilege to operate a motor vehicle. You're shaming law-abiding gun owners for essentially the same thing.

originally posted by: Answer

Australia is not the United States so you've proved absolutely nothing.

Well spotted, Sherlock. No, Australia is not the United States, we realised a while ago that allowing civilians access to automatic assault rifles was a tad ridiculous. Apparently the US hasn't quite caught up with that simple logic yet.

Clearly you know nothing about US gun laws. Many cities have adopted gun laws nearly as strict as the UK and Australia but they saw no reduction in crime.

Methinks you don't know as much about Australian and UK gun laws as you may think you do.

So your "FACTS" are as follows:

"See this Orange? It's a citrus fruit and it is exactly the same as that Apple."

Only a fool would claim that what has (arguably) "worked" in the UK and Australia would work in the US... just because.

Errr. no. Your comparison would be correct if I were saying that Australia and the UK have strict knife/car/insert "weapon" here laws therefore the US should implement gun laws as it worked for us!

No, I am saying that strict gun laws DID work here and how the hell would the US know if it doesn't at least try? Hmm? How many more people must die just so you can keep your assault rifles hmm???

Only a fool would claim that what has (arguably) "worked"

There is nothing "arguably" about it. The laws worked. Full stop. The fact you are trying to dispute this shows you know very little about the subject at hand.

The criminal element in Chicago has absolutely no problem getting guns to commit violence...and yet Illinois/Chicago have some of the most stringent gun laws in the country.

I will admit that if you can walk into a sporting goods store or order on-line it might be slightly EASIER to obtain a gun. But gun control laws do NOTHING to prevent criminals, or those wishing to use a gun to harm others, from obtaining guns.

I have no problem with legislation requiring registering firearms. I have no problem with more comprehensive background checks on those wishing to purchase firearms.

I have a problem with the pro-gun control crowd getting all jiggety over Roseburg or Sandy Hook, and completely overlooking Chicago or Detroit or any other inner-city war zone where gun control laws aren't controlling gun violence.

Crack coc aine is illegal in this country...there are not just strong crack-control laws out there, the stuff is BANNED. Does it stop people from pushing it or using it? No. Stricter gun control laws will NOT prevent someone from going postal with a weapon...not now, not ever.

You have to begin at the beginning. Take away the weapon...what is wrong with the PERSON??

a reply to: Indigo5

If someone wants to kill a bunch of people and kill themselves they are going to do it. With guns or not.


I am not sure if we should be arguing over the logic of madmen and women, because obviously we will never understand what their motivation is or why they want to produce mayhem and murder.

originally posted by: vor78

Its only a comparison. The point is, we have tens of thousands of traffic fatalities yearly, and my guess is, you exercise your right/privilege to operate a motor vehicle. You're shaming law-abiding gun owners for essentially the same thing.

Sorry, but you cannot compare cars to guns, not even remotely. One was invented as a means of transportation and the other was invented as a means to kill living things.