The Fall of the EU?

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: crazyewok

Quite - I know some people who used to be diehard pro-EU types who are wavering and some have flipped. I even used to be open to the EU but now, as long as we get a free trade agreement or rejoin the EFTA then I see no benefit to remaining in the EU whatsoever.

Three years ago I was a die hard EU supporter too.

Now I cant get out fast enough.

Not even the immigration, its all the other EU bull#.

a reply to: stumason

That's what I said isn't it? Although it was late when I posted lol but yes Assad was protecting Russia's interests in Europe, Russia being the biggest gas supplier for Europe (see a previoius post too). Qatar saw this as a complete slap in the face and were determined to undermine Assad by whatever means

Why has the little nation of Qatar spent 3 billion dollars to support the rebels in Syria? Could it be because Qatar is the largest exporter of liquid natural gas in the world and Assad won’t let them build a natural gas pipeline through Syria? Of course. Qatar wants to install a puppet regime in Syria that will allow them to build a pipeline which will enable them to sell lots and lots of natural gas to Europe

Pipeline

With the distinct possibility that Qatar & Turkey could completely by pass Russia and decrease Europe's dependance on Russian gas, it gives a slightly new perspective to the intervention by Putin in Syria to my mind

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

If it was what you meant, it didn't read that way, sorry! But you have clarified that - perhaps it was me being confused instead

But yes, the biggest supporters of the rebels (and the hardcore Islamist ones like Al Nusra and IS) have been Qatar and Saudi along with Turkey to a lesser extent, not the US like some crazy people here would have you believe. The West has genuinely tried to support the moderate groups but they are the minority as the larger, Islamist groups got plenty of cash and weapons from the Arabs.

That said, Al Nusra and ISIS are at each others throats as well. It is truly a multi-faceted and multi-front war with lots of factions all vying for control.

originally posted by: stumason
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

If it was what you meant, it didn't read that way, sorry! But you have clarified that - perhaps it was me being confused instead

But yes, the biggest supporters of the rebels (and the hardcore Islamist ones like Al Nusra and IS) have been Qatar and Saudi along with Turkey to a lesser extent, not the US like some crazy people here would have you believe. The West has genuinely tried to support the moderate groups but they are the minority as the larger, Islamist groups got plenty of cash and weapons from the Arabs.

That said, Al Nusra and ISIS are at each others throats as well. It is truly a multi-faceted and multi-front war with lots of factions all vying for control.

I think they're all idiots, whoever in the ME is supporting ISIS is going to end up on the receiving end at some point - IS will eventually twig that rather than just accepting some money from them to go and do their dirty work, they could go and take over and have ALL of the money, and oil, and gas, and women, and whatever they like basically.

You can just feel a major world wide conflict coming on, can't you?

Further developments in the EU debacle yesterday as Nigel Farage slammed the Greek EU Migration Boss over his statements regarding countries shouldn't bother with the political cost of the refugee crisis and should leave everything up to the EU Commission as they don't have to worry about seeking re-election. Farage called these statements "breath-taking arrogance"

"The Commission does not take the blame because it does not care about the political cost," said the EU migration commissioner.

"The Commission is here for five years to do its job and we did it with vision, responsibility and commitment. Because what is driving us is not to be reelected. That is why for us the political cost means nothing."

This relates to the fact that unelected EU bureaucrats are in positions of power with no accountability or responsibility to a national electorate. So basically these people sit on the Commission pass regulations & proposals without any accountability. They have just proposed £801million funding to cope with the crisis, which of course involves "frontline staffing" (jobs for the boys no doubt) with £330m to come from member states including the syphoning off of £400m from humanitarian projects across the EU.

Besides the syphoning of already allocated funds for Europe, the Migration Minister also indicated that they would be sending in RABIT The Rapid Border Intervention Team for "the safety and dignity of refugees" so despite assurances from the EU and member states that borders would not be closed and free movement would be maintained, the Commission are dictating otherwise
Full Speech

originally posted by: pikestaff
I can see Europe falling into little city states like Greece was 3,000 year ago, and might be again, with some cities being moslem, other Roman catholic, and then the Anglicans, Jesuits, etc., with Russia demanding tribute now and then.

The rich cities will stay rich, the poor cities will become sink holes for those no one else wants.
National power grids will collapse, good agricultural land will be fought over many times, canals

and rivers will silt up, lands will get flooded, and be useless for food production, and the four horsemen will be very much in evidence.



How do you like that scenario?

I told the Greeks I work with they would be better off getting out of the EU a couple months ago.

The EU was designed from the beginning to be the Franco-Prusian power block, not a unified Europe. Look at the laws put in place. The only country that has benefited was Germany. (France would have, but they have their own issues right now.) England was the only smart one. "Yep we like free trade and easy movement, Nope keep you hands off the Pound."

I have said for a long time it is going to fall apart. No way could you build one block from all these countries with 1000's of years of national heritage. They wanted to copy the economic power of the US and our 50 states. But they failed to understand history. Yes we are 50 states, but we are all one country that was built combining people from every where. Greece will always be Greek, Germany will always be German, France will always be French. They will never "hurt" the motherland for the EU no matter what they say.

It has just been confirmed that ex Chancellor Nigel Lawson is to be made President of Conservatives for Britain and support a referendum to get out of the EU.

Well thats a relief to have someone so capable at the helm of our Euro future !

originally posted by: PhyllidaDavenport
It has just been confirmed that ex Chancellor Nigel Lawson is to be made President of Conservatives for Britain and support a referendum to get out of the EU.

Well thats a relief to have someone so capable at the helm of our Euro future !

You can see the plan can't you.

Because they're one of the major parties they pretend to be seriously looking at leaving the EU, try to persuade everyone to get with them (the voters) "because they aren't racist/rabid xenophobes/Islamophobes/whatever BS you like, like UKIP, etc" (which is why they've already said they won't join forces with anyone else), they'll huff and puff and then declare that Super Dave has done a fantastic job negotiating new improved terms for the UK, and we should all vote to stay in after all.

And the only anti-EU voice you'll hear in the media will be them.

If they can't beat UKIP simply set up something designed to look like it's fighting for the same causes, get everyone to back that instead so they don't feel "wacist", then tell them all to vote for staying in.

Pathetic really.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Aazadan

The difference being we aren't as passive as Europe.
If a great deal are sent here the govt wont enact martial law on them but on US when we get them BEFORE law enforcement when they expose hostile intentions and we kill them for it.

Of course the government would do that, what you're promoting here is vigilante justice against an entire culture just because you think they're hostile.

originally posted by: dismanrc
I have said for a long time it is going to fall apart. No way could you build one block from all these countries with 1000's of years of national heritage. They wanted to copy the economic power of the US and our 50 states. But they failed to understand history. Yes we are 50 states, but we are all one country that was built combining people from every where. Greece will always be Greek, Germany will always be German, France will always be French. They will never "hurt" the motherland for the EU no matter what they say.

I don't know about that, the original 13 states were all quite different and even today Texas and New York have basically nothing in common. There's also a large segment of people who believe in putting the state before the nation, and the community before the state. None of those people are willing to hurt their home to benefit the larger group.

originally posted by: chewi
a reply to: yeahsurexxx
Just like refugee we move away from areas that are not condusive to our way of life. WHY?

yep. but still, I work for a living.
I learn the language where I live.
I pay taxes to the country who will open their doors for me.
I will respect their culture and ways.
I will adapt.

Here in Sweden, I'm a racist right now.
Not because I hate other races or ppl from another country,
because I'm aware of whats happening and I put my foot down.

I really want the best for Sweden since I grew up here.

a reply to: yeahsurexxx

I truly believe that despite all the posturing everyone is a nationalist at heart. We all want what's best for our country of birth. When we have a bad choice or decision by our own Governments, we can petition them, protest, or vote against them but when decisions are being made in our name buy a faceless non-politcal Commission who do we protest to? There is no voting so we can't vote them out? To be completely honest, when border controls were in operation, I feel that Europe was a safer place for the sake of a tiny inconvenience

originally posted by: chewi
a reply to: fate7
dump or dumb. What country you from dumper

I am a stateless human. Not any #ing regimes (country) own me.

The Fall of the EU?

That would be the best end for all european citizens! Because the European "Union" never was an union!
It is just the toy of rich and greedy people that rather cause wars and crises than to accept that their toy is trash, and was trash from the very beginning!
They just tried to do another step to an one world government, so let´s hope the really failed! But i can´t believe that, the "EUlites" will do really everything to prevent this.

It's better to make a painful break than draw out the agony!

On there own most European differ ideology wise.

UK always been pretty center.

Northern Europe left leaning

And Eastern Europe slightly right leaning.

Southen Europe just always been corrupt.

Mashing us all together in a union was always going to fail.

a reply to: crazyewok

Strange that isn't it? Seems the hotter the country the more the corruption? Must be sommat to do with the weather....except Australia of course

Such a perfect picture for these times..

a reply to: lucifershiningone

yes yes we know we are so bad and naughty lets tie up all us colonists and whip us soundly whilst chanting out more of our Imperialistic history from as far back as the history books will let you

You forget that in actuality without colonisation, there would be no USA, No Canada, No Australia, in fact no many countries as we know them now. Colonisation can be a good thing can be bad. The Romans colonised us and what did they do for us? Roads sanitation & baths, international trade and really good battle tactics. The Vikings colonised us and they gave us erm Ragnar Loghbrook. We have been colonised over and over. Most colonisation brings something to the table for the colonised party whether it be the opening of trade routes, or education or irrigation. Colonisation was the way of things past. The only colonisation going on at the moment are with ISIS/ISIL and those Muslims entering other countries by the thousand with their own agenda.

This thread is not about colonisation or bad bad Brits or sneaky Muslims it is about the value and workability of the EU in its present state, and its ability to handle a crisis that was either seen unseen or manipulated for mass effect

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

And why is that a bad thing? So far we have mass shootings, pollution, land being destroyed, greed and animals dying out left and right...and so yeah thank god you colonized the world....

a reply to: lucifershiningone

haha yup all down to us nothing to do with anything anyone or any other factor....not our fault you lot couldn't take care of your country

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

Actually the country was beautiful, then colonization happened and mass genocide.