Religious Liberty?

a reply to: AMPTAH

What we are doing?.. trying to live? survive? fight oppression, Gain Equal Rights and Protections?

Gosh, we are Evil

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

What we are doing?.. trying to live? survive? fight oppression, Gain Equal Rights and Protections?

Gosh, we are Evil

That's what Jesus said,

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. KJV, Mark 10:18

From the time of the original sin, man hasn't been very good. Hence the laws given to man to follow, to get back on God's good side.

When we call someone good today, we really mean he is less evil than the average.

On one extreme, we have those who try to follow the bible, to become as good as possible, given the limitations of the flesh. In this case, the man tries to do the will of God. To do this, he reads the scriptures, uses his best understanding of what the word says, and tries every day to follow the rule book.


On the other exterme, we have those who follow the law of Thelma,

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law - Aleister Crowley

You don't try to do God's will, instead you do your own will. Whatever you imagine to do, that you do. You don't need any book or Priest to tell you what to do, no need to read the bible, or any scriptures, just act according to your own will. God gave you a will, didn't he, so use it.


Somewhere between these two extremes, most men fall, doing their own will sometimes, and doing God's will at other times.

But, remember, none of us is alone and isolated from the other, so whenever we do our own will, that affects someone else trying to do their own will too.

That's where all the oppression and persecution comes from. Other people doing their own will that conflicts with our will.

When we all do God's will, there is harmony, because we're not trying to do our own will, and God has a definite plan, so peace reigns.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law - Aleister Crowley

I've always seen this with a little more to it, maybe Crowley missed it, or maybe he didn't and the quote is wrong..
but it's
"Do what thou wilt, but harm no one."
so, just who is the gays harming??

Ya know you can quote scripture all you wish, but well, if someone if following another set of beliefs, they just might think that their is superior to yours, why should they have to change their beliefs just so the country can be custom fitted just for the christian philosophy?

originally posted by: dawnstar

Ya know you can quote scripture all you wish, but well, if someone if following another set of beliefs, they just might think that their is superior to yours, why should they have to change their beliefs just so the country can be custom fitted just for the christian philosophy?

You have a good point there. But, remember, there are places on earth right now where groups of people believe different things, and hold that exact viewpoint. The Sunnis and the Shias might both believe in Islam, but it's a different variant, and neither side sees any reason to have their country custom fitted just for the other doctrine. Each believe theirs is superior to the other. So, they do like the French did in the middle ages, they challenge each other to a duel, believing that who ever comes out on top must have the right view.

This is repeated in many different contexts all over the earth, hence we get things like "ethic cleansing", "mass graves", and lots and lots of refugees.

There is no freedom or liberty for anyone, anywhere in this world any more. There never really has been.

EVER!.

All those poor abused Dead horses would rise up in rebellion if they weren't already dead.

a reply to: AMPTAH

It matters not one whit whether one is following the law of God, or doing what thou wilt. The simple fact of the matter is that EITHER WAY it is not for any human to judge another, by the metric of the Bible like a hypocrite and a liar (for all who claim their hatred and discrimination come from Jesus are liars before their God), or from the perspective of an unbeliever.

No matter which way you slice it, judging your fellow man, drawing about your shoulders the mantle of Almighty God, placing yourself above Him and the instructions of His son, Jesus Christ, even if you justify it with a Bible verse, is going against the word of God, and it is not acceptable. It goes against the very deity that you claim to worship to do so!

To claim the right to judge others, one is literally repeating the error of Lucifer by effectively announcing that God is not quick enough to judge and administer punishment, and so you must lambast, lampoon, harass, and provide unsolicited "advice" about the spiritual state that homosexuality and other sexual preferences, leave the individual in. This is exactly like saying to God "I am so much enamoured of you, that I seek to elevate myself to your height, to see the universe and all creation from your perspective, that I consider myself fit to cast judgement in your stead, because I know better than the rest."

It is an attitude born of self worship, not worship of God, or of our Lord Jesus Christ, the saviour.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: AMPTAH

It matters not one whit whether one is following the law of God, or doing what thou wilt. The simple fact of the matter is that EITHER WAY it is not for any human to judge another,

We all have to judge. We make judgments every day, as we walk this earth. But, it's how we judge.

As long as your judgement is righteous judgement, you'll be fine.

And said to the judges, Take heed what ye do: for ye judge not for man, but for the LORD, who is with you in the judgment. KJV, 2 Chronicles 19:6

The thing is, whatever you judge, the same shall be judged onto you.

For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. KJV, Matthew 7:2

So, make sure when you judge, you'd be happy to receive the same judgement.

If a man judge righteously, in according to the LORD, then what complaint can he have when the LORD judge him righteously also?

If you think you are right, then of course, you can judge.

But, if you happen to be mistaken, then watch out.

Best to read the good book, and judge only according to what it says, rather than make up your own judgments from you own ideas.

If you judge others by "advising" them that what they are doing is wrong, then others will "advise" you when you are doing something wrong. If they didn't judge you, and so tell you, how on earth would you ever know what you're doing wrong?

See? We have to judge. But, it is how we judge that really matters.

a reply to: AMPTAH

It's pretty explicit that we are not permitted to judge, because we are not perfect.

Only those who are perfect, a minority of one human in all of history, have permission to judge our fellow human beings hearts in the way you do. That individual was the one who died for our sins. Unless you not only speak for him, but literally are either God, or His son on Earth, you are overstepping your mark.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Can you answer a Question without having to Quote Scriptures and Bible?

originally posted by: TrueBrit

It's pretty explicit that we are not permitted to judge, because we are not perfect.

Only those who are perfect, a minority of one human in all of history, have permission to judge our fellow human beings hearts in the way you do. That individual was the one who died for our sins. Unless you not only speak for him, but literally are either God, or His son on Earth, you are overstepping your mark.

Well, if I overstep my mark, then I am the one that has to worry about this.

That's the beauty of the scriptures. If you are unsure of the right thing to do, then it is better not to try to judge.

Your statement makes it clear, you believe only Jesus can judge. But, in fact, only God can judge. Yet, he uses men to judge with him. This is clear from the scriptures.

And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man. KJV, Genesis 9:5

Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man. KJV, Genesis 9:6

So God judges man by the hand of man.

By His command, we judge and receive judgement. We don't worry about the perfection, because he grants the wisdom and takes it away. We do the will, when we understand what needs to be done.

When we don't know, or are unsure, we are "by standers".

Jesus said, "Become passers-by." The Gospel of Thomas #42

So, it all depends on what you understand. Whether you actually know what is right or not. To believe that no man can understand the verses in the scriptures, is to mock the book, for why else would it be written?

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

Can you answer a Question without having to Quote Scriptures and Bible?

Sure. When I'm giving my own personal opinion.

But my personal opinion, is like any other person's personal opinion. It's not backed by any anything, but my own "whims".

a reply to: AMPTAH

and..there are places around the globe where the christian, the jew, the sunni, and the shia were all living in the same neighborhood, their kids playing together, them all getting along fine till the US came into the picture and started playing their games....

originally posted by: dawnstar
and..there are places around the globe where the christian, the jew, the sunni, and the shia were all living in the same neighborhood, their kids playing together, them all getting along fine till the US came into the picture and started playing their games....

The real problem there is the weapons. God gave man two fists to fight. When two men start to fight, they use up energy, get tired, and quit when they are exhausted. So, by design, conflicts between men produce limited damage. Bystanders don't get hurt. The innocent remain untouched. The remainder of the society is mostly at peace. But, introduce weapons and everything changes. Now, those that want to fight, aren't the only ones that are affected by the conflict. The weapons draw in everything around the battle and create chaos.

The united nations should really disarm all nations, remove all weapons, and let the populations return to using their fists.

That would not go down so well in America, where the people love their guns. But, the world would certainly be a different place.

Some think that the right to bear arms, is akin to a Religious right.

a reply to: AMPTAH

Why don't you answer a Question without Quoting Scriptures?

a reply to: AMPTAH

the first weapon a kid learns to use is a rock!! so shall we remove all the rocks from the world? it's not the weapons, it's people never being taught how to use them correctly, or why it's wrong to harm others. a weapon is just a tool, just like hammers, nail guns, knives, ect... many could be use to cause bodily harm to another.

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

Why don't you answer a Question without Quoting Scriptures?

I just did.

I'm more flexible than you perceive.

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: AMPTAH
so shall we remove all the rocks from the world? it's not the weapons,

You can do many things with a rock. You can start a fire, to cook food, by scratching two rocks together. You can build an altar to the LORD with the rocks of the field. You can build an house, with the rocks. Or a spear, to catch fish.

But, you can't go fishing with an atomic bomb. That's a different kind of tool.

a reply to: AMPTAH

you are only as flexible as your Bible allows you to be, or that is what you have shown

originally posted by: Darth_Prime
a reply to: AMPTAH

you are only as flexible as your Bible allows you to be, or that is what you have shown

Everything is not in the bible. The Bible doesn't tell me how to wash my face, or which school I should attend, or what subjects to study. Lots of things are left out of the good book. The bible even grants Religious Liberty to all unbelievers. Which is a really neat thing about the good book. How many other religions can claim the same?