Adam and Eve - Why was Knowledge Evil

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: akushla99
a reply to: Isurrender73

"Except for self defense"

Å99

Adultery, lying and stealing are never done in self defense.

And self defense should never be considered betrayal.

Amein!

a reply to: akushla99

So you are the only person in history that has never had a thought to do something that was hurtful to someone else?

If that is the case we should notify the Pope because you must be the Christ.

If you didn't want to have a thought like that then it came from somewhere. The bible says those thoughts come from the mouth of Satan.

Regardless of where you think those thoughts come from if you act on them your soul will be filled with sickness.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: akushla99

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: akushla99

Satan can still repent (though he won't). Christ paid for his sins too. The only one condemning Satan to a Lake of Fire is Satan himself.

There is no 'satan'.

Å99

Ok. Whatever man. Why bother asking your poorly phrased questions then?

Hahaha...thats atelling comment...bye

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

Telling of what? That you're a troll? That you're high as a damn kite? That you skipped taking a week's worth of your meds?

I mean you've got me confused here man. Help me out. What exactly is the point you were trying to make?!?

Think about that as you leave.

Bye.

It was the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

To claim knowledge of what is good and bad has various negative effects for you.

Like blocking your natural guidance that comes through the instincts and intuition in direct response to each moment and that which you face.

Deciding a universal ethical value to each thing or action is actually cutting yourself off from God.

This is a world of relativity- what is good in one context and situation, might be bad in another. Ideas about good and evil blocks one from hearing/feeling the guidance of God in the moment on what choices to make.

But humans so badly want to feel they have control over the future in a definate way- "I got this... I know what is good and evil, so I have it all figured out from now on! I don't need to be sensitive and feel those light guiding hands inside all the time, being in the moment- I just refer to my map of good and evil!"

Having such a map allows a person to close their receptive senses, and become more hardened and de-sensitized to the world, and what is happening even inside them in the moment.

Satan is the tendency to be afraid of the future and find ways to flee from being hurt or feeling discomfort.... which often just results in hurt and discomfort for you and everyone around you.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: akushla99

Telling of what? That you're a troll? That you're high as a damn kite? That you skipped taking a week's worth of your meds?

I mean you've got me confused here man. Help me out. What exactly is the point you were trying to make?!?

Think about that as you leave.

Bye.

So is this!

Å99

a reply to: Isurrender73 I enjoyed reading your metaphor and would like to add my thoughts on the knowledge of good and evil. The knowledge of knowing things outside of alignment with God is what would be the "evil'' in question. Like you said, Gods laws are not intended to burden or control us. What is and does try to control human beings is stepping off the path God wanted us to follow and falling out of alignment with God. As Jesus told us the most important thing is to love one another. Hatefulness is a terrible sickness to be controlled by.
Thank you for your thoughtful OP.
Peace

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: akushla99

So you are the only person in history that has never had a thought to do something that was hurtful to someone else?

If that is the case we should notify the Pope because you must be the Christ.

If you didn't want to have a thought like that then it came from somewhere. The bible says those thoughts come from the mouth of Satan.

Regardless of where you think those thoughts come from if you act on them your soul will be filled with sickness.

Because calling someone a troll, accusing them of being high and of not taking their meds isn't really sick, or, that you think has a poor grasp of english, and does not come from the mouth of satan?

My questions still stand (and I haven't been innapropriately impolite in asking them). They pretty much go to the core of the whole Source/defiler/redeemer narrative...by no means a novel one, and by no means the be all and end all of narratives...a particularly addled story that is flawed from the outset (as recorded in the little golden book) and certainly not the direct word of an omnipotent, omniscient (etc) creator...that much should be glaringly obvious...but sometimes the light can blind you, and you have to defer to other voices for your 'knowledge'...which might be erroneous, and therefore no indication of Supreme divinity - but poor interpretations of a rehashed and rewritten dramascape that would be nothing without this mythical 'satan' character...think about it...no 'original sin', no snakie in the garden, no redeemer/saviour character, no payment for sins yet to be committed by the children of the Source who hadn't even been materialised, no final 'Omen-like' 3-ring extravaganza where the Source battles with a rock it created that it cannot lift...spare me the talk of love, and openly 'pen' hate to make a moot point...you reveal yourself...

Try the veal

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

I'm pretty sure most of that reply was directed at BelieverPriest, but you have no knowledge of my views on anything but the subject I have presented.

I talked nothing about hell, and I believe that to blaspheme the spirit of Love and Reason, the Holy Spirit, is the only unforgivable sin according to the bible.

I don't believe in church dogma regarding Satan, Demons or hell. But I do believe in the thoughts of wrongdoing that arive in my mind. Since I was not thinking about wrong, nor do I want ro do wrong I assume the thoughts must be coming from an outside source as the bible claims.

Realizing that you have thoughts that are against your nature makes it easier to overcome them.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: akushla99

I'm pretty sure most of that reply was directed at BelieverPriest, but you have no knowledge of my views on anything but the subject I have presented.

I talked nothing about hell, and I believe that to blaspheme the spirit of Love and Reason, the Holy Spirit, is the only unforgivable sin according to the bible.

I don't believe in church dogma regarding Satan, Demons or hell. But I do believe in the thoughts of wrongdoing that arive in my mind. Since I was not thinking about wrong, nor do I want ro do wrong I assume the thoughts must be coming from an outside source as the bible claims.

Realizing that you have thoughts that are against your nature makes it easier to overcome them.

Small phone, big fingers, genuine apology.

'Outside' stuff...

You could continue for all of the shining eternity to 'blame' (implicate) 'outside' sources...the result is, you will never take responsibility for your own thoughts - it's a convenient scapegoat "oh, it wasn't me, it's satan/devil whatever"...if the message of Michael makes any sense, its basic, bottomline, core lesson - is, Take Responsibility! As long as you continue to handball the responsibility onto something/someone else...you avoid the strength gained to realise (make real) that very simple message.

As allegory, the narrative of the A&E story implicitly does not make sense, except to reveal the use of responsibility, because before the 'knoeledge', they wanted for NOTHING...correct?

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

Where does a thought that you didn't want come from? In reality where do any thoughts, that were not consciously brought about come from?

You believe that good and bad thoughts are random within your own conscience. I believe dark thoughts come from Satan and Light thoughts come from God.

You fight yourself, the strongest of all foes.
I fight Satan, the weakest of all foes.

It's philosophy as much as it is religion.

I take full responsibility for my actions but how can I take responsibility for thoughts that arive in my consciences that I never intended to think?

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: akushla99

Where does a thought that you didn't want come from? In reality where do any thoughts, that were not consciously brought about come from?

You believe that good and bad thoughts are random within your own conscience. I believe dark thoughts come from Satan and Light thoughts come from God.

You fight yourself, the strongest of all foes.
I fight Satan, the weakest of all foes.

It's philosophy as much as it is religion.

I take full responsibility for my actions but how can I take responsibility for thoughts that arive in my consciences that I never intended to think?

Its not philosphy, but much closer to psychology...none of your 'actions' are random, but initiated by thought...how confident are you that the actions produced by those thoughts are not the result of thoughts that come from...errr...satan? (Lol)

...because the action is initiated somewhere, you couldn't very well take responsibility for thoughts (that subsequently you act on) that are not yours...

Again, deflecting responsibility for your thoughts can, and does produce some very bizarre behaviour...but, your choice is to act on thoughts, or not...for which the responsibility is entirely yours...you dont get to scapegoat an imaginery voice in your head, son-of-sam 'the dog was satan and told me to kill'...that's called psychosis...and is a full and complete abrogation of responsibility.

You dont need to 'intend' thoughts, you dont know where they come from...if they resonate in less than savory ways, replace them with another conscious thought (should satisfy the compulsion to control everything at the very least)...

Å99

originally posted by: Bluesma

This is a world of relativity- what is good in one context and situation, might be bad in another. Ideas about good and evil blocks one from hearing/feeling the guidance of God in the moment on what choices to make.

I hear that a lot, but there are some things that should never be considered good.

A poor man may steal food, and we can call it justified. But not needing to steal food would be good.

A man may kill a man in self defense and be considered justified, but not needing to defend oneself would be good.

Sometimes what is bad might be justified, but we should never call some things that are always bad, good.

Lying, Stealing and Murder can never be good but can possibly be justified.

originally posted by: Isurrender73

originally posted by: Bluesma

This is a world of relativity- what is good in one context and situation, might be bad in another. Ideas about good and evil blocks one from hearing/feeling the guidance of God in the moment on what choices to make.

I hear that a lot, but there are some things that should never be considered good.

A poor man may steal food, and we can call it justified. But not needed to steal food would be good.

A man may kill a man in self defense and be considered justified, but not needing to defend oneself would be good.

Sometimes what is bad might be justified, but we should never call some things that are always bad, good.

Lying, Stealing, and Murder can never be good but can possibly be justified.

Either way, to retain integrity, you are responsible for both...

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

Why does it matter if one believes that thoughts arise from a spiritual realm verses some mere subconscious procedure that we don't understand?

The only thing that matters is our actions. And I am in control over my actions more than most.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: akushla99

Why does it matter if one believes that thoughts arise from a spiritual realm verses some mere subconscious procedure that we don't understand?

The only thing that matters is our actions. And I am in control over my actions more than most.

Hey, I agree...no-one sees your thoughts unless they are 'realised' made real...but whether you think

A) that the thoughts are not yours
B) that they are yours

...unless you are forced to perform an action which is not the result of your thought, you are responsible...you are given the gift of being able to choose to be the producer of good/evil or a product of it...thats the choice...but, if folk want to subscribe to the notion that some thoughts are not thiers, they have a way of abrogating their responsibility...it's a fairly obvious observation to make.

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

For those that believe in possession maybe.

I don't believe I can be possessed by thoughts so I have no reason to be worried about who controls the actions. I remain aware of my freewill at all times.

originally posted by: Isurrender73
a reply to: akushla99

For those that believe in possession maybe.

I don't believe I can be possessed by thoughts so I have no reason to be worried about who controls the actions. I remain aware of my freewill at all times.

"I take full responsibility for my actions but how can I take responsibility for thoughts that arive in my consciences that I never intended to think?"

This sentence would suggest something different.

Å99

a reply to: akushla99

Do you have thoughts that you didn't intend on thinking? I believe everyone has them.

When you see someone attractive, the first thought that pops into your mind could be nothing, pure or sexual.

Did you concisely choose what thought you were going to have, or did you just have a thought?

thought is a fundamental human activity familiar to everyone, there is no generally accepted agreement as to what thought is or how it is created. Somehow, thoughts arise in the mind through the product of subconscious brain processing. en.m.wikipedia.org...

Where, how and if thoughts even exist within the body is not clear. That thoughts appear to our awareness, on a giant projection screen (to which we are the audience), is all we know.www.psychologytoday.com...

Has a thought ever passed through your mind that you didn't feel was your own? I'm not talking about tin foil hats and thoughts beamed from outer space. I mean the ordinary moments when something occurs to you and you have to wonder where it came from. These orphan thoughts are especially common when we encounter someone different from us.www.psychologytoday.com...

I am not suggesting something nearly as radical or schizophrenic as you might think. Psychology can't answer the question. So my answer is Spiritual.

Add - I believe thinking is active but thought is passive. Our passive thoughts can be good, bad or indifferent, but we have them without first thinking about them. After we have a thought we can choose to think about it, act on it or let it go.

I'm more inclined to think that disobedience was the sin and that eventually they were to be allowed to eat of the tree of knowledge, but under supervision so that the knowledge could be explained as unearned knowledge has a greater potential to be used for evil.