Turning our backs on Islam.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: wantsome

At first I treated them as any other immigrant but my opinion has changed after being called a infidel by a 5 year old kid.

I mean you are a Infidel or a Kafir, its not a insult really its a statement of fact.

Their religion treats women and non-Muslims like it's the middle ages. It's not an insult really its a statement of fact.

originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: cavtrooper7

What have you done to take care of the crazies in your culture? Have you done anything to stop us white guys from going and shooting up schools or apologize for it?

What can we do in the face of wussification and zero tolerance?

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

I would of punched that man in the mouth as soon as he disrespected James.. It would of been a #en disaster, she has a lot more tact than I could ever muster in such a situation especially having been his friend. # that!

TRANSLATION: "We are turning our backs on the stone age"

SO??????????????????????????????????????????????????

It is 2015 AD, NOT 2015 BC...

It's the digital age, not the age that we just discovered fire.

Next...

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Kapusta

If all Muslims were like you Kap, I would be the first in line with a care package and home made muffins, but that isnt what Im seeing, or hearing.

Look bro i swear by my mother and children their are Allot ofbMuslims like me . extremist make up a small percent of Islam. But the media does not do a very good job of separating us.

We don't subscribe to barbarian ideology.

Soo soo many muslims speak out about extremism in islam it's just we don't get noticed for doing so.

I my self belong to a group that educates young and new muslims about the dangers of extremist ideology.

I would without a doubt fight extremist along side of you if it ever came to that.

There isn't 1.6 billion of Muslims. Could we please stop telling and blindly accepting this lie?
I believe most of the folks born in a "Muslim world" just don't have a choice. Let's say a half of them are women which have no freedom at all. No soul right? Ask them anonymously and subtract 800.000.000.
Without the indoctrination and the threat of violence and social stigma the rest would quickly turn into Christians, atheists,Jews etc. It's like saying there's 1.355 billion of communists in China.

I haven't turned my back on Islam. I just don't think the UK can take any more people. It can't even afford to look after it's own people. Are you telling me we should look after them before our own people?

If I could i'd home all the children and families. I'd ignore and turn back the young men who are coming for their own reasons. Europe has no idea who it's just let into it's borders... In this day and age, that's suicide. We have no idea who these people are or what their motives are.

Islam doesn't start and finish with the refugees. There are many living here in the UK. Many who are great people and some are my dear friends. It's not turning our backs on Islam. It's trying to deal with a ridiculous situation as best we can.

Did you expect this to go smoothly? What did you want to see? How about the gulf countries stepping up? That'd be a blessing.

I have NOTHING but sympathy for those families who feel they had no choice but to flee to Europe. But you can't blame outsiders for looking in on the situation and being a little taken back by the sheer amount of YOUNG MEN who look perfectly fine entering our borders here in Europe. Isis said they'd send their men under the guise of refugees. Fast forward to September and here we are. Letting anyone in... There's a huge amount not even from Syria!!

There's a line to be drawn. But it should have been drawn months ago.

originally posted by: Kapusta

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: Kapusta

If all Muslims were like you Kap, I would be the first in line with a care package and home made muffins, but that isnt what Im seeing, or hearing.

Look bro i swear by my mother and children their are Allot ofbMuslims like me . extremist make up a small percent of Islam. But the media does not do a very good job of separating us.

We don't subscribe to barbarian ideology.

Soo soo many muslims speak out about extremism in islam it's just we don't get noticed for doing so.

I my self belong to a group that educates young and new muslims about the dangers of extremist ideology.

I would without a doubt fight extremist along side of you if it ever came to that.

I live in a city in the UK which is highly populated by Muslims. I have many great Muslim friends and quite frankly don't see Islam as an issue...

What I see, however, is the failure of multiculturalism of a grand scale. I see British culture being torn apart. Churches closing. Mosques being built and you can't blame people for being upset and blaming Islam... because what i've seen over the past 20 years is a complete take over. And although, as I have said, the religion has nothing to do with it, the culture is what is the issue.

Multiculturalism hasn't worked (at least from what I have seen) and it's a shame. but it hasn't.

FYI - I've studies Islam for 2 years and like I said, some of my best friends are Muslim. So multiculturalism on a personal standpoint has worked for me. But on a greater scale, the Islamic culture has taken over the UK. And I do find it quite upsetting to be honest.

I hope this isn't too off topic.

originally posted by: Kromlech
TRANSLATION: "We are turning our backs on the stone age"

SO??????????????????????????????????????????????????

It is 2015 AD, NOT 2015 BC...

It's the digital age, not the age that we just discovered fire.

Next...

You make an extremely valid point. The reluctancy to evolve and develop doesn't mesh with the western world. Hence why multiculturalism has failed.

save them? Their brothers in the region don't even want to save these men who abandoned their homeland and family for the welfare states of nothern europe.
Instead of running to europe these able bodied men could fight instead of hoping the west will.

Europe/christendom had the reformation and englightenment, Islam cannot join the modern world until they have that.
When women do not have to wear cloth all over their body, when a lot of things are different we can talk.

Heck the difference between us citizens and latin americans is quite large and is causing strife. This is a historical problem different cultures clash and break countries apart. It's why multiculturalism is a failure. Once a minority gets large enough they will impose their beliefs on the other groups via political process.

I am kind of sad in a way though, countries like sweden in 2050 will have all women covered up muslim or not for safety reasons. I doubt they react fast enough to this issue. multiculturalism is self-destructive as it lets aggressive cultures in that eat up multiculturalism. I think the core of europe is going to wise up fast. countries that fought muslims, to prevent them from reaching germany and france got 500 years still remember. Thinking of you, spain and hungary already know the game.

Lastly if one would like to help, donate to a charity, or fly to syria and fight with assad. raising my taxes for your moral crusade is not right.

originally posted by: NWOccupation
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

How can one have a civil conversation about this. Or a factual one for that matter? The Quran condones lying to those not of the faith.

Qur'an (16:106) - Establishes that there are circumstances that can "compel" a Muslim to tell a lie.

Qur'an (3:28) - This verse tells Muslims not to take those outside the faith as friends, unless it is to "guard themselves" against danger, meaning that there are times when a Muslim may appear friendly to non-Muslims, though they should not feel that way..

Qur'an (9:3) - "...Allah and His Messenger are free from liability to the idolaters..." The dissolution of oaths with the pagans who remained at Mecca following its capture. They did nothing wrong, but were evicted anyway.

Qur'an (40:28) - A man is introduced as a believer, but one who must "hide his faith" among those who are not believers.

Qur'an (2:225) - "Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts" The context of this remark is marriage, which explains why Sharia allows spouses to lie to each other for the greater good.

Qur'an (3:54) - "And they (the disbelievers) schemed, and Allah schemed (against them): and Allah is the best of schemers." The Arabic word used here for scheme (or plot) is makara, which literally means 'deceit'. If Allah is supremely deceitful toward unbelievers, then there is little basis for denying that Muslims are allowed to do the same. (See also 8:30 and 10:21)

This a subject that the soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines that have fought in those countries know well. It is bane to their duty. Recruitment of non-Muslim translators is at an all time high because of this.

This is more BS regurgitation, Again another prime example of what Extremist do , take Religious text and innovate it with their own Ideology and interpretation.

I am guessing you pulled this crap from AnsweringIslam.org ? a website known for its malicious lies and contorting Islamic scripture . They have been refuted many times .

Now I'll refute what you have posted .

firstly .

The question was asked to a Scholar a highly conservative scholar.

Is it permissable to lie to kaafirs?.

(disbelievers )

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.
Lying is a reprehensible and blameworthy characteristic and is not appropriate whether in earnest or in jest. There is no concession allowing it

Indeed what the Muslim should do, especially Muslims who live in kaafir societies, is to be keen to be honest and to avoid lying to the kaafirs, even more keen than he is to avoid lying to the believers, because his keenness to be honest and to connect that to the teachings of his religion, is a kind of practical da‘wah to the non-Muslims. If they see the noble characteristics that are promoted by Islam, that may lead to some of them entering the religion of Allah.

But if the Muslim has the image of being a liar or treacherous or other blameworthy characteristics in front of non-Muslims, that will put him off the religion and make him resent its followers.

Quran 16:106
Any one who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters Unbelief,- except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in Faith - but such as open their breast to Unbelief, on them is Wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful Penalty.

How does this establish lying is ok ?

Qur'an (3:28)Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

Of course , Would you want to take a scumbag ISIS member or someone who is evil as a friend ?
Keep in mind that the Quran revelations were reviled over a 20 year period and was in accordance to things that were happening in that time like WAR etc . This is why their is HADITH to further translate the understanding of the Text .

Quran (9.3) This Announcement from God and His Messenger is to be made to the people on the day of the great Pilgrimage; God and His Messenger have declared no amnesty for the pagans. If you (pagans) repent, it would be better for you, but if you turn away (from God), know that you cannot make God helpless. (Muhammad) tell the unbelievers that a painful punishment has been prepared for them.

Not sure where you were going with this one . Its basically a warning to Idol worshipers are pagans that "hell" (a separation from god ) awaits them.

Quran (40:28) And a believing man from the family of Pharaoh who concealed his faith said, "Do you kill a man [merely] because he says, 'My Lord is Allah ' while he has brought you clear proofs from your Lord? And if he should be lying, then upon him is [the consequence of] his lie; but if he should be truthful, there will strike you some of what he promises you. Indeed, Allah does not guide one who is a transgressor and a liar.

Ohhh look at that more proof that lying is NOT permissible.

And ill end on that note

Well , I can go on but Urge people to do their own research in these verses because what this Member has done is exactly what Muslims them selfs do . they pass on their own interpretations of the Quran , This is why we have ( like i stated before ) extremist blowing them selfs up and killing innocent people including Muslims . Muhammad never taught what we see today .


And to the member who posted this . Please stop spreading this toxic stuff .

Purely for informational purposes and perspective:

Egypt' s Top Religious Authority Condemns ISIS

Arab League Denounces ISIS Attacks As Crimes Against Humanity

Counc il On American-Islamic Relations Condemns ISIS Violence, And Rejects Calls To Join Extremists Fighting Abroad

CAIR Reiterates Condemnation of ISIS Violence, Religious Extremism

CAIR Condemns Barbaric Killing of U.S. Journalist by Terror Group ISIS

ISIS Execution of American Journalist Underscores Need To Combat Extremism

ISIS Concern: British Muslims Leaders Condemn Extremist Group

Islamic Society of North America Denounces Attacks on Iraq's Religious Minorities

Islamic State Is Our Top Enemy: Saudi Mufti

Turkey's Top Cleric Calls ISIS' "Caliphate" Illegitimate, Condemns Threats to Non-Muslims

Islamic Society of North America Condemns Boko Haram

UK Imams Against ISIS

Muslims Condemn Terrorist Attacks

Open Letter to Bagdhadi

Moderate Muslims Speak Out Against Terrorism

Just putting these here in hopes of contributing to the substance of the ongoing debate... not because I wish to participate in it.

Peace.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Divide and Conquer.

The problem here is that the only Muslims getting the big air time on the Main Stream Media and online social forums are the ones calling for countries to change and adapt to suit Islam, convert or be killed and other such asinine rhetoric. To make matters worse the only non-Muslims getting the big air time on the Main Stream Media and online social forums are the ones calling for Muslims to die or go home or be killed and other such asinine rhetoric .

The Main Stream Media and online social forums have done a fantastic job of creating a reality that literally does not exist - but it is going to exist soon because the actual massive majorities from both camps are happy to sit back and watch Rome burn.

The European (and western) refugee crisis is the latest addition of fuel to the fire.

originally posted by: Kapusta
a reply to: misskat1

do you fully understand every aspect of the laws in your country ?

But you first reference your religion.

So...which is it? Your religion, or your country,
or confused by religion = country = laws?

originally posted by: Kapusta
So long story short don't sit their and act like you have even the slightest grip on understanding Hadith and Sharia , because you don't ,even most Muslims like my self hardly know anything . It takes years upon years to fully understand it . Its more complicated then US law .

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Because their way of life is none of our business, and ours is none of theirs. If they come to our country they should obey our laws, and our rules and vice versa. Other than that we should not even entertain the idea of a hand in hand relationship.

Might have something to do with their plans. This sign was in a Detroit suburb, I don't recall the name of it. However, I think people have heard and seen enough. You know they use taqiyya where lying about their goals and plans is ok to advance the goals of Islam.
Source



Quite simply, I do not trust their motives. I don't trust a lot of different groups motives. However, these people do not assimilate to a new culture or want to follow the laws and traditions of Western Nations. You do not have to look far to find them trying to bring Sharia law into western countries, muslim no-go zones in western countries, etc.. If they are not happy with our laws and traditions, then either go home, or go find a country that does meet your religions needs. We do not need to change how we do things to accommodate them! Period. And if you look at the Syrian refugee issue, I mean look at most of the video you see and the majority are military aged males. Probably 80% of them. They do not have the women and children with them. Many muslim countries refuse to let them into their countries, why is that? I have seen evidence of at least one ISIS terrorist that had walked in with the refugees into Europe.

I am sure there are good people among them, but the problem is we don't know which ones aren't. And in Europe many of them have fake passports, refuse to register, have no documents, etc. It is like dumping a prison out and letting them into your country. You don't know who is who. I live in Florida and when Castro dumped out his prisons and sent them to the US, it took quite a lot of time and many lives and other victims before we were able to figure out who was who. There are stories in the media about the refugees destroying their refugee centers in Germany. Why do that if you are truly a war refugee? I could post video after video of media stories, not just from the US, but all over the world. However, I do not have the patience or time to do that here. Besides they are not hard to find.
ETA: the sign was from Dearborn, Mi.

I here your plight, but there are ways to go about things, and quite frankly i have turned my back on that community, i find their mental state so stained that no amount of washing will ever bring them back to a humane way of living.

They just take sh#t too far.

Muhammad was killing any and everyone that was not Islamic up until his death. There is no end to this superstitious need to kill all infidels (Christians, Jews, Hindu's, Buddhists, Secularists, etc.) They want anyone different dead. Period. They killed over 275 million people from the 1400's forward. It is their nature. To think different is totally nieve. Wake up.

The Islamic Crusades were horrific in comparison to the Christian Crusades. It has to stop.

TV has made most of numb to the sufferings of large numbers of people everywhere, not just the Middle East.

originally posted by: queenofswords
Love is a balance. Too much mercy and there is no true justice.

Out of the desire to show love, we sometimes make wrong choices and the right kind of discrimination is ignored. Is it loving to open the doors to your home and expose your family to possible harm? No, especially when the culture you are opening your home up to has proven to be mostly incompatible with yours.

It is unloving and unfair to the people at home to allow another culture to swarm into your home knowing they have no desire to assimilate culturally, much less in any other way.

Feed, cloth, and provide shelter for the refugees as best you can, but careful calculated cautious immigration is absolutely required. Politicians and others that allow a flood of these people into our home is not love.

So well put.

I hate when our politicians give the southern boarder states the exact same line with regard to the illegal aliens flooding across our borders. Their culture is also for the most part incompatible withe the american way of life. Most don't intend to stay here and they have La Raza pumping them full of hate for the people whose homes that they have invaded and it is not the homes of the politicians.