Turning our backs on Islam.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Maybe I'm a bigot and a racist...but than again...as I stated...I'm not universally racist. This uneasy feeling is just around Muslims.

I might surprise you with this, but,

I really do respect and appreciate your honestly I might 100% disagree with you on it but at least your honest and open about it.

Interesting that you list women, yes there are countries where women are subjugated however I would argue that is more of a problem with the specific country rather than a wholly Muslim problem. Case in point, Indonesia has had more women presidents than America has.

Thanks for this thread, man. You get a lot of respect from me for it.

To add to your post, it's actually the 3 most highly populated Muslim countries that have had female Heads of State. That's Indonesia, Pakistan, and Bangladesh. And in Algeria, another Muslim majority country, females make up something like 60% of the lawyers. Even my Muslim mom is a homeowner and taught me how to drive. And even though that may sound like a contradiction to the stereotypes about Muslims, her situation is actually pretty common w/American Muslims.

And African American communities have had Muslims from the very beginning, with literally 15-30% of the African slaves originally being Muslims. Islam is so highly integrated in African American culture that even most people who "hate" Muslims have accepted African American Muslims without knowing it. Some of the biggest boxers are Muslims, like Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson and Bernard Hopkins. In music, people like Ice Cube, T-Pain, Rakim, Mos Def, Lupe Fiasco, Busta Rhymes, Freeway, Beanie Sigel, Bizzy Bone from Bone Thugs-n-Harmony and a boatload of others are also Muslims. The NBA's all time scoring champ Kareem Abdul Jabbar is also a Muslim (as is Shaquille O'Neal).

But you're correct that a lot of stuff changed after 9/11. The demonization of Islam hit an insane level. Even friends who'd known me for years started suspecting me because of my religion. I'm not surprised though because I live in the American South. I've seen KKK in person, fought people for calling me racial slurs since I was 2nd grade, and had confrontations w/NeoNazi skinhead gangs since middle school. And both myself & my younger brother have dated white women here only to have their families disown them until our relationships were over.

In other words, I'm not surprised by the kneejerk bigotry because I know the truth about the way many conservatives are. "Southern hospitality" only exists on the surface. Remember, people here were pissed when racial segregation was banned in 1964. And interracial marriages were illegal throughout the South until 1967. Bigotry is literally a way of life in many parts of America. The only difference is that bigotry is now being aimed at Islam & immigrants (again).

a reply to: ParasuvO

I really hope you're correct.
The end of ALL religion would be the best thing society could ever hope for.

I find it abhorrent that false beliefs are respected and celebrated, they should be ridiculed and frowned upon.

After Ben Carson stated that no muslim should ever be president a poll was taken. Over 40% of all people polled in the USA agreed with him. But what was REALLY shocking was the fact that in the same poll, the vast majority of people said they would be LESS likely to vote for an atheist than a muslim.

Unbelievable that someone who believes in fairies, santa claus, Neptune and a magical man in the sky would receive more votes than someone who believed in provable, observable reality. Just nuts.

An atheist will ALWAYS change their beliefs when presented with new FACTS.
A religious person will ALWAYS deny the FACTS that challenge their beliefs. (even when their belief says theres a magical man in the sky who knows the thoughts and feelings of every living thing in the universe).

Of course I believe there is more to the world and the universe than we currently understand. You don't have to be a dumbass to see that. But that's why we have RESEARCH. We don't just say "we don't understand this, therefore it must be a magical being in the sea who makes the tides". Because that's just DUMB.

The end of ALL religion? I certainly hope so, the future will truly be 'heaven' then.

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
a reply to: ParasuvO
An atheist will ALWAYS change their beliefs when presented with new FACTS.
A religious person will ALWAYS deny the FACTS that challenge their beliefs.

That is incredibly astute and is absolutely true - people who believe in anything, whether it's aliens, fairies, ghosts, religion - anything - find it almost impossible to change those beliefs, it's like it has become a part of themselves and who they are and how they fit into the world, and so an attack on (or even just questioning) those beliefs is taken as an attack against them personally.

a reply to: Breakthestreak

The end of ALL religion? I certainly hope so, the future will truly be 'heaven' then.

Sorry but that's ridiculous. Even if all religions disappeared today, it wouldn't change the world's problems.

Rape, robberies, embezzlement, fraud, pimping & selling sex slaves, kidnappings & abductions, human trafficking, child molestation, murders, wars, racism, corruption, bigotry, and virtually every other crime, vice, or atrocity would still happen the same way. The common denominator in all of these are people who like to hurt or defraud others, not religious teachings.

And what about WWI, WWII, the Chinese Civil War, the Opium Wars, the Banana Wars, the 1st & Second Indochina Wars, the Korean War (and other wars during the Cold War), Napoleon's Wars, and nearly every major war in the last 100 years? These were caused by man's desire for money, power, prestige and resources, not religion. Even the wars in the Middle East right now are mostly over access to mineral & energy rights, regional control, and political feuds.

Getting rid of religions would change none of this.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

shall read to follow..

originally posted by: enlightenedservant
a reply to: Breakthestreak

The end of ALL religion? I certainly hope so, the future will truly be 'heaven' then.

Rape, robberies, embezzlement, fraud, pimping & selling sex slaves, kidnappings & abductions, human trafficking, child molestation, murders, wars, racism, corruption, bigotry, and virtually every other crime, vice, or atrocity would still happen the same way. The common denominator in all of these are people who like to hurt or defraud others, not religious teachings.

So it's simply in man's nature to be evil blessed of malice and of pure criminal intention..Why? Because he likes it.. he enjoys the feeling of that power..

There is no way to change those qualities.. you exterminate people of that criminal behavior and intention..

a reply to: enlightenedservant



You shouldn't overlook the fact that many members of the African American community, irrespective of their faith, are difficult to get along with.. generally I believe it has something to do with self-righteous attitude and behavior, a winner knows how to let things go, and I believe they hold on to their grudges a bit too much..



Personally though, I have a difficult time understanding why Black men are interested in dating caucasian women..

So i have been reading over some of the comments on this thread over my mid-morning coffee.

Some quite interesting responses I will probably not be able to respond to everyone individually however thank you to those who have passed on a kind word my way.

What strikes me reading through the comments is how some of you seem to be missing my main point about how through all the bad press the Islamic world has had since 9/11 we have fell into this trap of believing in the stereotype that the media leads us to believe. Another point that seems to come up time and time again is about the treatment of women and human rights in Islamic states, seems like many who disagree with me have turned this thread on its head. This thread is about our attitudes towards Islam, not the actions of specific Islamic groups.

Regardless, the point on women is a contentious one. There is no denying that in some Islamic states women's rights are ignored however I would argue that this is a problem with that specific state and not with Islam itself. Case in point, in Somalia there is a huge problem with female genital mutilation, something which is supported by some Muslim scholars which leads some to portray this as a "Muslim problem". In truth however it is a problem in Somalia as this does not happen nearly as much in other Islamic states. The problem hear is that the focus is on the minority of states that restrict the rights of women but if we look at more moderate Islamic states who for the most part represent a larger proportion of the Islamic population women and men have mostly the same rights.

The rights of homosexuals in the Islamic world remain behind our own however.

I would also highlight however if we look back even 100 years into our own history our record of human rights regarding women and homosexuals was not much better. We brunt women at the stake, it was not until the start of the last century that we let women vote in this country, wife beating not so long ago was considered socially acceptable and we are only just now starting to give homosexuals the rights they deserve. Prior to 1962 Sodomy was a federal crime that carried a lengthy prison sentence!. My point is that in some aspects the Islamic world is not so far behind us in their views on the rights of women and homosexuals. That's not even getting into the civil rights movement!

Besides I fail to see how a poor record on women's rights is any justification for turning our backs on them, surly the opposite is true. If you are one of these people who has been ranting on this thread about the horrible women rights record of Islamic states then is that not even more of a reason to be accepting of these women when they call out for our help?

Finally there are many who state you don't have a problem with Islam but all organised religion, that's fine but again I want to emphasise that my point here is that we should not be judging or punishing the individual because of their religion, we should not hate someone or shun them aside because of how we judge their region.

a reply to: dukeofjive696969

I do so love the way you state the once again we should educate ourselves regarding Muslims etc. Its always the same, we should accept, we should be tolerant, we should be patient & we should be understanding. I see little of this coming in the opposite direction!

Maybe they should be educated regarding our culture for a change

Ask yourselves this, do you really want to share your street, way of life, childrens' lives with a people that believe having sex with babies and toddlers cures your Aids? They have a superstition called "Virgin Cleansing" look it up if you like though its quite harrowing to read about. Has anyone in this mass migration taken into account the African Muslims and their enormously high HIV rate and just what this could do to Europe? These men, like it or not, are savage superstitious tribesmen, who live in the 21st century but are not OF the 21st century. Believe me their form of Islam is the worst of the worst, they feel sex is an entitlement regardless of with whom and have disassociated it from love or procreation, it is now all about their satisfaction as according to Islam they are the superior beings.Child rape in Africa is at a ridiculous level. So no, I don't want these sorts of people living next door. Oh and I was born in what was Rhodesia so think I'm allowed to slag off my ex fellow countrymen with being screamed at for being racist (the new 21stC buzz word)

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

We have had the horrors of ISIS, the terrorist group that has killed untold thousands in a violent campaign slaughtering their fellow Muslims in a twisted quest all in the name of Islamic nationalism. We have seen hundreds of thousands of Syrians displaced, caught in the middle of a vicious civil war and a terrorist organization that seeks to subjugate Muslims a draconian interpolation of the Qur’an.

NATOs aggressive wars over the decades having nothing to do with all that. By the way, its millions of displaced Syrians.

Jordan, Turkey and Lebanon have a million each. The "refugee stream" is just a trickle right now from all the ME countries recently destabilized for "Humanitarian" reasons.

Blaming the victims is easy when you leave out the real culprits.

a reply to: enlightenedservant

The soul of man is pure. It is his mind that is infected.

When man is so septic that the soul can no longer survive, it flees the toxic shell and what is left is the souless, lost creature of Zombie and Vampire lore.

We are slowly becoming the dreaded beast that we secretly fear.

The monster is no longer under the bed; he is in it.

a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

do you really want to share your street, way of life, childrens' lives with a people that believe having sex with babies and toddlers cures your Aids?

Prove to us all that this is a widely held view in Islamic teachings.

Honestly this is the kind of crap i am talking about, you will probably link me to some batsh!t crazy guy with a few followers or something.

STOP SPOUTING THIS VENOM!!!

I do not know of anyone, Muslim or otherwise, who would agree with this disgusting statement.

It is so difficult to have a intelligent debate with someone when this is the kind of rubbish that comes up.

Comments like yours really do test my capacity to keep my tong in check because thanks to the T&C's of this site I cannot say what I really think of you with out getting post banned and frankly you are not worth that.

originally posted by: tony9802
a reply to: enlightenedservant

You shouldn't overlook the fact that many members of the African American community, irrespective of their faith, are difficult to get along with.. generally I believe it has something to do with self-righteous attitude and behavior--

Personally, I have a difficult time understanding why black men are interested in dating caucasian women..

Wow. The irony in your comment. If anything, you're the one coming off as having a "self-righteous attitude". For example, I wouldn't have had anything negative to say to you if you didn't make an entire post labeling us this way. If you would've just said this about people in generally, it would've been different.

As for women, there are attractive women of all ethnic groups & nationalities. I value women based on their minds, hearts, values, personalities, and interactions w/me. In other words, I just people based on the content of their character & not their skin color (though nice curves never hurt ). If a met a good Korean,Sudanese, or Inuit lady & we started having feelings for each other, I would have no problem dating her either (unless I'm already in a relationship of course).

EDIT: Nice edit. You added "a winner knows how to let things go, and I believe they hold on to their grudges a bit too much.." Isn't that hypocritical? For example, conservatives tell us to forget slavery. But it's ok for them to remember the Confederacy? They're from the same time period! In fact, the Confederacy only lasted for 4 years but conservatives still won't let it go. If we should forget our past, y'all should forget yours. But if you can remember your past, so can we.

a reply to: Power_Semi

people who believe in anything, whether it's aliens, fairies, ghosts, religion - anything - find it almost impossible to change those beliefs, it's like it has become a part of themselves and who they are and how they fit into the world, and so an attack on (or even just questioning) those beliefs is taken as an attack against them personally.

Believing in nothing is as ignorant.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: enlightenedservant

The soul of man is pure. It is his mind that is infected.

When man is so septic that the soul can no longer survive, it flees the toxic shell and what is left is the souless, lost creature of Zombie and Vampire lore.

We are slowly becoming the dreaded beast that we secretly fear.

The monster is no longer under the bed he is in it.

I agree with the concept. But what do you mean "we are slowly becoming the dreaded beast"? Humans have been these atrocities from the beginning. Google search the terms "lynching postcards" and "Hunger Plan"/"der Backe-Plan" and you'll see what I mean. Even Genghis/Chingiss Khan and Timur/Tamerlane were killing people by the millions.

EDIT: To clarify, I believe there always have been & always will be some people who revel in causing pain to others. The term "sadism" is simply a person who takes pleasure in the pain of others. Just look at the people who get genuinely happy when bad things happen to people they disagree with.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I left ATS for a while because of the increasing number of people that started showing up here for only one reason. To derail a thread.

I learned a lot about the art of trolling, what it meant, why people did it, and it changed my view of a many thing. You are right when you say that the only defense is an educated mind. The best warriors are experts in the ways of their enemy. You can not win a battle if you are ignorant.

You are not going to agree with everyone and everyone is not going to agree with you. When you find yourself in a losing battle against the deaf, the blind or unwilling, you will gain no ground by pushing against an immoveable force. Step around it or over it, and leave it to the next fellow to deal with the aggravation.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

It is a fact and if you read the post correctly you will see that this applies to African Muslims I didn't say muslims generally. Back in 2001 child rape in Africa was out of control due to the mistaken belief that it cured AIDS. I didn't make it up its there to be seen all over Africa. Search and educate yourself before launching into a tirade against me for stating something that is well known in Africa. Do you think they put up billboards and have instigate programmes of education for a laugh? Superstition is a way of life for most Africans its more like a religion than their religion! Do you want a list of links to UN reports Red cross Reports etc just so you can withdraw your "venom" remark? Sheesh!

Oh and PS I never said it had anything to do with Islamic teachings in the first place but it has to be said that child sex is nothing new in Islam and there is even an accepted practice of it in Afghanistan mentioned in other threads

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: Power_Semi

people who believe in anything, whether it's aliens, fairies, ghosts, religion - anything - find it almost impossible to change those beliefs, it's like it has become a part of themselves and who they are and how they fit into the world, and so an attack on (or even just questioning) those beliefs is taken as an attack against them personally.

Believing in nothing is as ignorant.

It's not about believing in nothing so save your childish soundbites - it's about "sceptics" or whatever you choose to call us believing in what we can measure and observe in the real world, not believing in fairy tales that someone in a cave 2000 years ago dreamed up.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: PhyllidaDavenport

do you really want to share your street, way of life, childrens' lives with a people that believe having sex with babies and toddlers cures your Aids?

Prove to us all that this is a widely held view in Islamic teachings.

Honestly this is the kind of crap i am talking about, you will probably link me to some batsh!t crazy guy with a few followers or something.

STOP SPOUTING THIS VENOM!!!

I do not know of anyone, Muslim or otherwise, who would agree with this disgusting statement.

It is so difficult to have a intelligent debate with someone when this is the kind of rubbish that comes up.

Comments like yours really do test my capacity to keep my tong in check because thanks to the T&C's of this site I cannot say what I really think of you with out getting post banned and frankly you are not worth that.

RIGHT ON BROTHER!

It's funny, but all of the people who are most vocal about islam, i.e. not liking it - are those that are forced to live among it and experience it's "richness" every day.

Where do you live?

How many muslim immigrants do you live among?

Don't try arguing against the views of people who have far more experience than you do on the subject.

Everyone falls into a specific stereotype, and as ignorant as anyone might be - these exist because a large majority of people in a specific race will mirror the stereotype. No - not every Middle Easterner is going to strap a bomb to their chest and blow their neighbor to bits, and not every black man is going to steal from grandma. However, these actions have been repeated time and time again and the stereotype fits.

Your cry for help is one of many, and not just from the Middle East. You're trying to defend yourself against every single person opposing you, when you make yourself look self-righteous (which is an issue Westerners have against anyone). Many countries are in need right now, and only so many first world countries are going to help.