Turning our backs on Islam.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I will ask you a rhetorical question. How many refugees do you have living in your house, with your family? We already know the answer to that question, don't we? Even the Pope, leader of the richest faith in the world has only taken in ONE family.

At least Ghandi lead by example, not rhetoric.

In general, I understand your reasoning. it lacks full reasoning, however.

You point out how the world helped the Jews after WWII. This is true. What you omit from that equation is the world turned it's back on Jews before and during WWII.

Jewish emigration from Europe wasn't allowed into the U.S.. Europe was anti-Semitic even before WWII. The Jews had no issues as the Islamists have today. There wasn't demands for Sharia law. Yes, the percentage and numbers of rapes in European countries has jumped significantly. Then there's the conversions to the extreme version of Islam by youth.

This all adds up to fear. Fear for your culture, what the future holds for our children and grandchildren.

Would these people do the same for us if the situation was reversed? Perhaps. IF we converted...

Generally, it's Syria and Iraq(?) that is the source of the refugees. That leaves a lot of other Muslim nations, some very wealthy, that these refugees either aren't being allowed into or they don't want to go to. In either scenario, it speaks volumes. The refugees know their culture isn't as 'compassionate' as the west's...or they wouldn't be suffering to get into Europe and elsewhere as they are. Self evident.

To say there is no spreading of the extremist views within these refugees is myopic.

One doesn't permit an infection to spread, one addresses the source of that infection..the ME.

Let the world go into that quagmire and END IT! Else the chaos spreads. That is the solution to this problem. Make the ME a livable place.

Of course, there is a price to be paid for that. There will be more violence and death to achieve it. A lot more. Of course, 'compassion' forbids that.

Compassion without reason appears psychotic and destructive, at least when dealing with the human race.

We are capable of FLOODING the ME with food, materials and physical assistance in short order. When we get it to a point where they don't KILL our people for helping!

Until then? NOT MY HOUSE. I would not have my compassion destroyed...

originally posted by: misskat1
a reply to: buster2010

The Jewish people I know, dont want to kill me, or make me wear a bag on my head.

Neither does the Muslims I know. So do you think a Jewish life is more important than a Muslim life?

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly
I think the Op needs to go spend some time either in a Muslim country (god forbid he is a woman) or maybe just an area where they are predominate.

Notice how Saudi and half a dozen other Muslim countries are not taking any refugees ? They have their own problems, that is true, but even they know better than to allow a different brand of the Muslim faith into their countries. THINK ABOUT IT ! The executive director of Human Rights Watch, Kenneth Roth, lashed out at them on Twitter, captioning the photo of an overloaded migrant vessel with: “Guess how many of these Syrian refugees Saudi Arabia & other Gulf states offered to take? Zero.” I am not there so I really don't know how many they have taken if any.. But Kenneth should know..

Germany had to shut one of it's borders down this week for there were 30,000 wanting in and not enough people for crowd control or any semblance of immigration/paper work...

With all the money the West will be spending on food and shelter for these arrivals they could have built homes and given goats to most in a protected area of Syria and still come out cheaper and certainly safer even if a Battalion of grunts had to be stationed to protect them.

I would be willing to bet the control freaks in government are smacking their lips at all the freedoms and liberties they see we will lose because once the off with your head crowd starts with their religious B.S. the sheeple will beg for protection..

I am anti-7th century religious dogma from the off with your head crowd.. Period..And yes I have lived in some real garden spots controlled and ruled by Muslims; and no I was not fighting a war... It takes a bit of getting used to seeing the religious police which are not to be confused with the real police doing their thing and mostly attacking women with a cane stick for any perceived transgression against their rigid belief system.

I had an officer not 3 weeks ago tell me about a female Marine driver who was attacked by one the religious police in Iraq.. She beat his butt as the guys cheered her on.. He was lucky she didn't heal stomp his brains out.. As of that event no religious police were allowed on base... Oh come on now, he was just expressing his religious beliefs... as far as I am concerned he was lucky to leave with his life.

There is another thread running on ATS about how the military is supposed to turn a blind eye to child molesting ... Those are not just stories but actual policies and events.. Some evidently want the same type crap in a neighborhood close to them..

We have about 1000 people killed every year way down south in the country I live, by the so called radicals. Again why invite someone into your house that will just end up giving you more problems than you can probably handle.

Reminds me of someone who has never been mugged and thinks there are no evil ones in the world.. One severe mugging and they change their minds pretty darn quickly... Amazing how that works, no?

a reply to: TNMockingbird

My point was, that men are usually visual creatures. If women are not allowed to express their natural beauty, and the only visual stimulation is a small child, then it gets things out of balance. This is my opinion. I think an unnatural situation is created.

a reply to: buster2010

Of course I dont see the Jews as more worthy of help then the Muslims, but I dont see Jews anywhere saying "Death to America". Just do a youtube search, you can find a pile of Islamic folk wanting to bring Sharia to America.

I do not think muslims will mix well with the rest of the world. And I think it should be avoided.

They do not assimilate. They have proven that all throughout history. Their method of assimilating is to conquer, kill and destroy all that does not submit to the will of islam. Their motto is pretty simple - if it is different, kill it.

Not every muslim is out there killing people. I agree with that 100%. But that is not because they do not agree with the killing. Not every soldier in an army is out on the battlefield killing the enemy. There are many other jobs to fill that do not involve direct violence, yet they are all working toward a common goal. You have to admit, you have no idea which ones are soldiers and which ones aren't. And I resent people who know no more than you putting thousands of these potential terrorists in my neighborhood and telling me to be nice.

This is where people have a hard time understanding anything outside their own perspective. Try to understand and accept this, even if you don't see it. I do not hate muslims. I try very hard not to hate anyone. But I do hate the things muslims do in the name of their religion. Beheading people, burning them alive, raping children, etc. Nope. Not on my watch. I am not foolish enough to believe people of other religions have not done these things, but they were not dictated by the religion. Those were acts they committed on their own. There is a huge difference there.

Understand, I live near one of the biggest mosque's in the Midwest. I see these people everywhere I go. And they are not pleasant to be around. I have seen many, and I mean very many, situations that could easily have escalated to violence. It is happening right here in my own neighborhood every day.

You will have a very hard battle ahead of you if your goal is to make me welcome these people with open arms. Sorry, but that isn't hate, that is common sense.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Truth be told, most Muslims from the Middle East don't assimilate into western society. Even moderate Muslims tend to fit this mold. If they choose not to assimilate, why is it up to us to accommodate them? More often than not, the parent countries of Muslim I migrants have deplorable human and religious rights problems, yet we are to welcome them with open arms?

As far as I am concerned, Islam self inflicted the wounds they suffer from currently. I don't have much sympathy for a religion that violent persecutes other religions and doesn't even offer sanctuary for their fellow Muslim brothers and sisters in their time of darkest despair. That should tell you all you need to know about Modern Islam in the Middle East.

The problem is that not every one coming qualifies as refugee. There are lot of folks ( mostly men ) coming from Iraq and according EU and UK from areas which are safe to be and live. In our news there has been issues exposed, one refugee begged Iraqi men not to come in this country if they are only after the girls, because they are taking places from those who really need place to live without fear ! One Iraqi man left his 2013 Mustang behind so he could move to Europe ( and was complaining that he shouldn´t have ) .. and so on.
Some come from Afghanistan and Afghanistan is safe country to be.. What about men who are coming from the war zones but choose to leave their family behind ( wife and kids ) in the WAR ZONE !!! One even sold his house and left his wife homeless so HE got ticket out.
Nice?
We have no problems with families who seek safe place. Family first !
In the side note, every week we see in news that someone of our own nationality gets raped by them.. rape statistics have been sky rocketing in last 10 years and if the Iraqi men are only after our girls we will see it raised even more.
I have to say i am happy that i don´t have a daughters.. i feel those families in here who do.

a reply to: Vroomfondel

I just read that there is also "cultural jihad". They dont just come in with swords blazing. They infiltrate, multiply and take over, then comes the swords.
They were peaceful in England, until there were enough to take control of their neighborhoods. Neighborhoods that were originally occupied by the Citizens. Not only were the Citizens pushed out of their homes, now they are harassed by these so called good Muslims.
They tell us they plan on taking over America, just listen to what is coming out of their own mouths.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I do not think muslims will mix well with the rest of the world. And I think it should be avoided.

They do not assimilate. They have proven that all throughout history. Their method of assimilating is to conquer, kill and destroy all that does not submit to the will of islam. Their motto is pretty simple - if it is different, kill it.

Not every muslim is out there killing people. I agree with that 100%. But that is not because they do not agree with the killing. Not every soldier in an army is out on the battlefield killing the enemy. There are many other jobs to fill that do not involve direct violence, yet they are all working toward a common goal. You have to admit, you have no idea which ones are soldiers and which ones aren't. And I resent people who know no more than you putting thousands of these potential terrorists in my neighborhood and telling me to be nice.

This is where people have a hard time understanding anything outside their own perspective. Try to understand and accept this, even if you don't see it. I do not hate muslims. I try very hard not to hate anyone. But I do hate the things muslims do in the name of their religion. Beheading people, burning them alive, raping children, etc. Nope. Not on my watch. I am not foolish enough to believe people of other religions have not done these things, but they were not dictated by the religion. Those were acts they committed on their own. There is a huge difference there.

Understand, I live near one of the biggest mosque's in the Midwest. I see these people everywhere I go. And they are not pleasant to be around. I have seen many, and I mean very many, situations that could easily have escalated to violence. It is happening right here in my own neighborhood every day.

You will have a very hard battle ahead of you if your goal is to make me welcome these people with open arms. Sorry, but that isn't hate, that is common sense.

Your story is a story being repeated all over the world where they have been allowed to settle in a western non Muslim country.. If not today then tomorrow same story same rules.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Before being influenced by other writers in this thread I wanted to give my gut reaction.

1. Muslims are killing and subjugating Muslims.
This is not at all like the Holocaust where
atheists, agnostics, and Christians were chasing after and killing Jews.
The Muslims are doing this to themselves.
This is a Muslim problem, one that the Muslims
themselves need to take care of and work out.

Because the Koran teaches that non-Muslims are to be lied to,
are to be killed, are to be treated as sub-human;
infidels should not and should never have gotten involved in the ISIS/ISIL
problem beyond chasing down the 9/11 perpetrators.

Infidels (all non-Muslims) should not interfere in any way shape or form
because it has and will only continue to make matters worse
as they are viewed as infidels not worthy of equality to Muslims
or consideration by Muslims as fully equal or as fully human.

2. The refugees are for the most part able bodied men,
I believe 70% is what is quoted in the media, not families and children.

These able young single men and all able bodied men should be turned back
to fight their own battles and not flee leaving their countries in ruins.

They are responsible for the refugee problem for refusing to fight
for their own countries and people.
These able bodied men are cowards and should be turned back.

This is a Muslim problem, no one is hunting them except themselves,
no one is causing problems for Muslims except other Muslims.

Muslims in that region hate and despise outsiders,
as such outsiders (infidels, other nations) can only make the problem
worse and need to stay away, completely.

Muslim able bodied men who are refugees are cowards
who refuse to take care of their own countries and families by fighting back and saving them.

I have pity for the women and children caught in this awful tragedy,
but no pity for the able bodied men and no pity for the Muslims in general who are bringing this upon themselves.

looks like a mixed bay of responses so far,

I am a little busy this afternoon but I will try to reply to a few posts when i get time.

Thank you, on both sides of this debate for your input.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
My challenge to all of us, accept the human being even if you cannot accept the religion.

The problems is that you cannot separate one from another; if you accept the human being you have to accept his religion too.
As it is proven over and over again.
"you can take a man out of a religion but cannot take the religion out of a man". Or something like that.

Now I've always wonder: why I never see this plea made to muslims? "Please brothers muslim accept and respect other people too even if they have different religions. They are human beings too."
Why nobody ever address these people with common sense and humanitarian reasons?

Hint: because there is nobody to talk to about common sense.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: wantsome

At first I treated them as any other immigrant but my opinion has changed after being called a infidel by a 5 year old kid.

So he called you a unbeliever then you changed your whole view of Islam based on one word from a child's mouth.

I mean you are a Infidel or a Kafir, its not a insult really its a statement of fact.

Yeah and the next day he threw a rock at me as I drove by.

originally posted by: wantsome

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: wantsome

At first I treated them as any other immigrant but my opinion has changed after being called a infidel by a 5 year old kid.

So he called you a unbeliever then you changed your whole view of Islam based on one word from a child's mouth.

I mean you are a Infidel or a Kafir, its not a insult really its a statement of fact.

Yeah and the next day he threw a rock at me as I drove by.

hmm kind of convenient you didn't mention that in the first place is it not?

OP, I think your thoughts are beautiful and spot on. Thank you. The yard stick by which we judge others will be used to judge us.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Tell me, how is this any different that the views of the KKK in that white and black should not mix?

Or Nation of Islam and their views.

I mean you are a Infidel or a Kafir, its not a insult really its a statement of fact.

That really says it all.

It's about context.
It's said in a deliberately derogatory manner.

I suppose you think it's ok to call people Paki's?
No, of course not because people tend to use it to convey a sense of superiority and as an insult - much the same as the use of Kaffir or Infidel.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: wantsome

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
a reply to: wantsome

At first I treated them as any other immigrant but my opinion has changed after being called a infidel by a 5 year old kid.

So he called you a unbeliever then you changed your whole view of Islam based on one word from a child's mouth.

I mean you are a Infidel or a Kafir, its not a insult really its a statement of fact.

Yeah and the next day he threw a rock at me as I drove by.

hmm kind of convenient you didn't mention that in the first place is it not?

So what I know what I saw. I didn't feel like typing it out. As I was driving by the kid came running down the drive way full steam with his arm cocked back. He tossed the rock and it missed my car. He's lucky he did miss or you would have seen the story on cnn by the time I was done.

a reply to: misskat1

Of course I dont see the Jews as more worthy of help then the Muslims, but I dont see Jews anywhere saying "Death to America".

No they just stand around and cheer when buildings are being brought down and thousands of us are being killed. Let America stop being Israels sugar daddy and you will see how fast they start chanting death to America.

originally posted by: misskat1

Of course I dont see the Jews as more worthy of help then the Muslims, but I dont see Jews anywhere saying "Death to America".

originally posted by: buster2010
No they just stand around and cheer when buildings are being brought down and thousands of us are being killed. Let America stop being Israels sugar daddy and you will see how fast they start chanting death to America.

And yet no postings of any footage or articles that show the celebrations in the streets of Tel Aviv like there were in Lebanon and in Iran and Jordan and Egypt and Afganistan and Pakistan?

Although, I am quite sure that there was a silent minority of Jews that were happy that the U.S. could now suffer the radicalism and terrorism that they have fought for years, and now join them in the fight instead of sitting on the sidelines....