Turning our backs on Islam.

a reply to marg6043

But while is our violence and I will not argue with that, is also the ingrained set of believes that comes with violence, retaliation all in the name of God.

Who told you this? Where did you learn this from?
Did you miss the Ops link...stating that less than 0.00006625% of the entire Muslim population belongs to a terrorist organization?
Presuming you are American(?) and given the far right in the USA is so active in bombings etc.. and 90% of all US terrorism is non Muslim ( CIA ) and about the same number are involved ( more likely about 1% if you include fringe groups) ....what are you fearing exactly from people who follow Islam? Why?


Islam in the middle east has never been peaceful and sadly they seem to be more violent toward each other base on tribal rivalries by regions. Even when they mostly practice Islam it doesn't stop them from fighting each other.

The Middle East as a whole hasn't been allowed any time to BE itself without interference so that's hard to say with authority.
In any case..have you seen the state of the Christian world objectively? Northern Island for example? EVERY religion has its ma and pa kettle sh*t fight going on. Always have.

back in the morning

cheers

Ro

a reply to: Rosha

To be violent it doesn't have to mean terrorism. The followers of Islam can be extremely violent to themselves as well as others. They have never been able to sort out the Shi'ite vs Sunni problem even though their holy book says not to kill other Muslims as its haram. They kill adulterers, homosexuals, intellectuals, the list is endless but that doesn't make them all terrorists it makes them fanatical believers

I think they now are at the point where we all where 600-1000yrs ago but it should be said that in some parts of the ME they weren't all like this. Persia was an amazing place for poets artists archtitects and writers. When you prevent education and destroy history you keep a people stagnant and that's the position they are in now.

a reply to: Vroomfondel


More than a thousand years fighting islam, and islamic invasion.. that is and has indeed been the history of europe..it's either me or you..

a reply to: Rosha

You forgot that the Arabs invaded EU during the Byzantine Empire, before their decline and push back to their territories of origin.

I know is a lot of turmoil in religion this days, but I see it as a shift of people's believes and understanding.

I am not an organized religion follower, I do not support any religion.

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
Right now I have had to disengage myself from most social media because all I see are childish jokes about refugees.

You must hang around with pretty horrible people on facebook and twitter then.
I don't see any of that in my newsfeeds, and for that reason I am glad that your friends are not my friends.

a reply to: Kapusta

HOW, if confronted by a RADICAL Imam informing students of Jihad for the purposes of recruitment,do you counter such a stituation?
Have you ever done it?
I am former combat arms and the LAST thing I want is more killing of ANYONE one but Jihadis (THEY can die torturous agonizing deaths in my eyes)
Would YOU betray such people to us to stop them?
Do YOU think all are beneath Islam,who are not of it?

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I am former combat arms and the LAST thing I want is more killing of ANYONE one but Jihadis

careful there Cav...I've been told Jihad is a legit thing even with "moderate" Muslims. Apparently...Jihad is not what we crazy westerners think.

a reply to: MarioOnTheFly

Then give me a new name for the faction we are to destroy.
Wahabbists?
I SPEAK of the creatures who are the bane of the planet .
THOSE of Islam who are on this board KNOW me I 'm not shy,I TRY to respect the muslim beliefs as people of the book we should.


I am also at war with P.C. so their emotional opinions in obstructing communications by nonsense words is rejected.

All you religious believers and philosophical first-graders put a bad light on my race
Muslim, Christian, Jew, ..., .. Races? Non religious people = racists?
Collective stupidity.

Religious believe is a weakness, a disease, or individually, a mix of both.

I am proud to turn my back on Islam.

a reply to: Rosha

"I choose to remember and hold, that no matter today's appearances, the people of Islam held the candle of knowledge, of mathematics, philosophy, medicine and science long after Egypt fell and Africa finally surrendered itself to chaos. That Islam bought art to geometry, built language and through the merging of many peoples, taught discipline, bought the concept of mutual respect - spiritual and physical - to a world that was infant and being over run by what at that time was a merciless near neanderthal Christendom. If not for Islam, no Renaissance, no modern world at all. Islam preserved...while we destroyed. here We owe Islam the history of white Euro 'us'...while we were busy going insane, they stayed sane and gave us back to ourselves freely when we were done. In our worst days, they held the candle for us. I feel it's only right we hold one for them too.
"

No, it was the educated people of the East who did all of that, Islam came along, proclaimed it to be "anti-God" and destroyed it all and took them backwards about 700 years.

Islam - the religion - does NOT promote scientific exploration, it promotes blind allegiance to doing what they say you have to do, and nothing else.

Islam is a religion, not a science, it was educated people who did it all, not a religion.

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Kapusta

HOW, if confronted by a RADICAL Imam informing students of Jihad for the purposes of recruitment,do you counter such a stituation?
Have you ever done it?
I am former combat arms and the LAST thing I want is more killing of ANYONE one but Jihadis (THEY can die torturous agonizing deaths in my eyes)
Would YOU betray such people to us to stop them?
Do YOU think all are beneath Islam,who are not of it?

So firstly if they are khuaraij ( extremist) according to Shria, dawa ( calling one back to Islam) is in order.

If that person refuses to change and continues to commit bid'ah (innovation of scripture ) meaning they make # up to get people to follow them using lies etc. And they show clear signs of shirk ( disbelife in god by their actions) then guess what it's a trip to the gallows for them. Of course they have to be proven to be of a sound mind , meaning not crazy.

So to recap on dealing with extremist according to Sharia leaves two options . Change or death.
I know it sounds barbaric right? But we are seeing the result of extremism right now , we see how evil these extremist are. You see Muhammad knew that out of this religion extremist would arise , he predicted it . And they did , in fact they are attributed for playing a roll in they shia sunnie divide . They are the ones who killed Ali , thus finalizing the split .

So i have been in debaits with extremist online and i shut them down with knowlege most of the time.
But if i ever came across one I would bust him in his chops without hesitation.

You ask do i belive all who are not muslim are beneath me ?

Of coure not!

In islam we belive everyone is born Muslim ( meaning their will is in submission to god ) but that they grow away from that connection with god over time through acts of sin etc . So again are job would be dawa . If they refuse Islam then guess what ! We hug them and say May Allah guide you and continue on.

We don't pull out a sword and force somone to convert , this is khuaraij ideology.

Anyway i hope this answers your " questions .

a reply to: Power_Semi

Are you serious? They did all that for us did they?
It wasn't "Islam" that did anything other than enslave and control. People of the East and their various slaves did that. I'm not taking away from Egyptians Persians or anyone but it wasn't down to Islam. If all you say was down to Islam, then we wouldn't be in this position now and those Islamic countries would be in a far far better place and position. Current forms of Islam forbid any advancement in technology, maths, science, medicine and a whole host of other subject matter. You only have to look at what ISIS is doing now to the ancient ruins, destroying thousands of years of history because they have absolutely no respect for any history other than their own version. They callously and viciously beheaded an 82yr old Archaeologist because he would not show them where other artifacts were hidden
Syrian Archaeologist Beheaded

Whereas we have gone forwards in exploration technology and other areas, Islam will not let their followers move forward as a result, they now lack the professionals, intellectuals and specialists that we take for granted which is why so many Westerners took jobs in Saudi & Dubai and other Islamic Countries because for the most part they couldn't do it themselves.

Until they are willing to see that following an ancient book to the absolute letter is bad for them as a people, nothing will change. They should be able to follow the core tenets which would allow them to advance as a nation in peace

a reply to: Kapusta

So JIHADI is NOT the correct word now...
ASa soldier we call the enemy by their appearances for brevity and clarity .
It is also I suppose a dehuminizing factor but lives take are ALL felt as human if the soldier takes them as ordered.
I must say I am surprised you aren't looking down on others outside your faith.
The people of the book should NOT tolerate that which seperates us,because of our leaders who have led us astray.

I posted this on another thread, but it works here too.

Here is a excerpt from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat.

Islam is not a religion, nor is it a cult. In its fullest form, it is a complete, total, 100% system of life. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic, social, and military components. The religious component is a beard for all of the other components. Islamization begins when there are sufficient

Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges. When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. Here's how it works: As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:

United States -- Muslim 0.6%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1.8%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

This is happening in:
Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%


From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply.

This is occurring in:
France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections in:

Guyana -- Muslim 10%
India -- Muslim 13.4%
Israel -- Muslim 16%
Kenya -- Muslim 10%
Russia -- Muslim 15%

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%
Chad -- Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non- believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania -- Muslim 70%
Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%
Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%
Sudan -- Muslim 70%

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%
Egypt -- Muslim 90%
Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%
Iran -- Muslim 98%
Iraq -- Muslim 97%
Jordan -- Muslim 92%
Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan -- Muslim 97%
Palestine -- Muslim 99%
Syria -- Muslim 90%
Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%
Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-al-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrassas are the only schools, and the Koran is the only “Word”, such as in:

Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%
Somalia -- Muslim 100%
Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts, nor schools, nor non-Muslim religious facilities. In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend Madrassas. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations, Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would indicate.
Today's 1.5 billion Muslims make up 22% of the world's population. But their birth rates dwarf the birth rates of Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, and all other believers. Muslims will exceed 50% of the world's population by the end of this century. Was it not "Devout Muslim men" that flew planes into U.S. buildings 9 years ago? Was it not a Devout Muslim who killed 13 at Fort Hood ? Can a good Muslim be a good American?

Theologically - no . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah.

Religiously – no… Because no other religion is accepted by Allah except Islam (Koran, 2:256).

Scripturally - no… Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Koran.

Geographically – no… Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

Socially - no… Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews..

Politically - no…Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

Domestically - no… Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Koran 4:34)

Intellectually - no… Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

Philosophically - no… Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Koran do not allow freedom of religion and expression..

Spiritually - no… Because when we declare 'one nation under God,' the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER referred to as Heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in the Koran's 99 excellent names.
Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.
Can a Muslim be a good soldier? Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, opened fire at Ft. Hood and Killed 13. He is a good Muslim!

originally posted by: MarioOnTheFly
a reply to: Kapusta

How can i best explain this to you.

At a point in life i was atheist. My concept of god and spirituality was purely earth based , if that makes sens. Meaning my mind was closed to all other options save for things i could explain useing science . observations if you will.

Ok....so you have seen both ends of the spectrum. I can appreciate that. One question though...how old were you when you started to explore your spirituality ?

What i quickly realized was that , like everything else in life you have to LEARN god to know him.

This I have a problem with...and it relates to awesomeness of the God as retold by religions. Why do you have to learn about God ? Since religions say that God is all and everything...within us and outside us...he is nature he is universe...he is. Undeniable, the creator of everyone of us...how come then his existence and presence is not apparent even to a child he created. How come you have to learn about him...from other people ? I'm just curious as to how you see it.

If you peel back the folds in every religion you will find every religion is the same.

I'm not as learned in religions...but many religious teachings are in direct conflict with each other. For instance...the foundation of the Christian faith is...that Jesus is the son of God...while Islam says...Jesus was just a prophet. By accepting the latter...you in fact deny the foundation of the former...and actually you're saying...this religion is wrong..mine is right.

So they are not the same...as you say it. They are almost in direct conflict as to foundation of their existence. They cant both be right. Either Jesus is son of God...or he isn't. Affirmative on one side...denies the foundation of the other.

This is just one example of the conflicting nature of all religions. The point is...obviously...somebody is wrong. Or maybe both are.

You will find a spiritual understanding that is only explainable by a few short words.

LOVE , compassion . god.

If I were religious...I would agree with this sentiment. But why if it's that simple...you need to LEARN about God. As you say it...it's just few short words. Anyone could understand that.

If you ask me can i prove that god is real or that i am in complete submission to him . i will tell you. , what i feel and what i have experienced is proof enough for me.

I'm perfectly aware that the belief in God is based on faith...so asking for evidence is ridiculous and irrelevant to the discussion about God or religions.

Answer to your first question . i was around 24 or so.

Second question . You see we are born in a state of purity but over time we commit sin or negitivity thus losing that closeness to spirituality and eventually losing any concept of it . many factors play a roll in this . the way we are raised , society etc etc .

So it all must be learnd again . these are my opnions and observations .


Question 3. Again think about the foundation of all religion . what is the main goal?
paradise , love , compassion, a connection to god, staying on a pious righteous path so one does not stray into negativity or evil, growing spiritually.

These are really some of the key stones that all religions have in common.

Question 4 , yes anyone can understand that , they just have to want to understand it.


Question 5 i thought the bases of your original question was "how do you know god is real " ? .

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
a reply to: Kapusta

So JIHADI is NOT the correct word now...
ASa soldier we call the enemy by their appearances for brevity and clarity .
It is also I suppose a dehuminizing factor but lives take are ALL felt as human if the soldier takes them as ordered.
I must say I am surprised you aren't looking down on others outside your faith.
The people of the book should NOT tolerate that which seperates us,because of our leaders who have led us astray.

Not sure i fully understand what your saying here again. Forgive me my reading comprehension might be off today.

The word "jihad" has been thrown around and misconstrued in many differing ways. Jihad can be anything. Taking a # can be jihad . ....

People of the book . thoes who are upon the quran and sunna should have tolerance. Muhammad didnt teach divide and conquer . in fact he was very humble and compassionate twards all religions .

You should read the letter he wrote to Christian monks living in Muslim lands. Essentially he says in the letter he will protect them with his life if anything were to happen to them. Etc .

a reply to: jerico65

Interesting read indeed and the sad part is I don't think I disagree with any of it
But what do I know? I'm just a useless dirty woman

a reply to: cavtrooper7

I am also at war with P.C. so their emotional opinions in obstructing communications by nonsense words is rejected.

Than you're a man after my own taste.

a reply to: Kapusta

Erm sorry to say but its is common knowledge that Mohammed did indeed practice the Islamic art of lying, particularly to the leaders and religious groups of territories he wished to conquer. He (and followers thereafter) lied to sway converts who he then enslaved, and despite what others have said it is indeed in the Koran and Hadiths that lying to further the cause of Islam is acceptable. They call it Taqyya...sorry if spelling wrong, and is or appears to be a popular way of achieving their own ends and defeat their enemies. Now you might say well we all lie, and that would be true, but we don't have permission to lie in our Holy Book.

We all know right from wrong regardless of our religion but some in this world are forbidden from using logic and common sense

a reply to: Kapusta

Second question . You see we are born in a state of purity but over time we commit sin or negitivity thus losing that closeness to spirituality and eventually losing any concept of it . many factors play a roll in this . the way we are raised , society etc etc .

But a child rarely commits a "sin"...before his teenage years. Yet the indoctrination starts form the day you were born. Why do children have no concept of God, unless told about it ? If you take a hundred children and take them to an isolated island without adults...and they somehow survive to old days...they would never have concept of Islam or Christianity. This stuff they have to be told by an authority and pushed into their psyche...correct ? otherwise they would be oblivious about it. Isn't that sort of proof...that it's the work of human beings ?

So it all must be learnd again . these are my opnions and observations .

you know...I like this. I have no problem with anyone who believes in whatever...and states in the end..."it is my opinion"...as opposed to..."this is the truth".

Question 3. Again think about the foundation of all religion . what is the main goal?
paradise , love , compassion, a connection to god, staying on a pious righteous path so one does not stray into negativity or evil, growing spiritually.

The main goal of any organized religion or cult...is to attract as many followers as possible. Numbers provide power. There are other goals of course...as you stated.

These are really some of the key stones that all religions have in common.

but you havent really addressed my prime concern about religions...denying Jesus Christ as the son of God puts you in direct conflict with Christian belief. It then stands to reason...that both of these cant be right to an objective observer. In the end..it's not just about believing, it needs to be the truth..or the belief is useless...all believers believe they are on the right path. That their religion is the truth about God. If they don't...than we can rightly conclude that they believe a lie ?

Question 4 , yes anyone can understand that , they just have to want to understand it.

I can understand that without believing in Allah or Jahveh. It comes about to a person...when you're at the right age...which is individual to a person.

Question 5 i thought the bases of your original question was "how do you know god is real " ? .

yes...but not about evidence, because we know it's hard to produce that kind of evidence. I was more interested in your opinion...