World flood, did it happen, can it happen again?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

I always loved the Hollow Earth theories, too.

What I meant by linking the expanding earth theory to the hollow earth theory is that new matter is not what made the earth expand. I was intending to link the idea of steam exploding from within the earth causing a hollow space to form but making it appear larger. No extra matter, just more hollow space within.

I agree about the science and physics of something like that happening stands in the way. Particularly the theory of subduction, as I mentioned. But I still have fun imagining it and enjoy reading stories about inner earth, too.

It is an interesting theory but tell me something:

Could you expand the rooms in your house by 'exploding' steam?


If it works in underground caves it should work in any hollow space... right?

a reply to: Agartha

My house doesn't have the mass and gravitational pull the earth has to keep it from flying apart though.

EDIT: I was curious and looked up Old Faithful and apparently there is ground deformation that correlates with its eruption. But as I said, there is that nagging issue of subduction that will only let you go so far with the theory.

a reply to: Agartha

Read the link again. Scientists think that 400-500 miles below the crust there are vast bodies of water. By vast they meAn oceans. Not microscopic. However, since it is so deep and we cant seem to reach there, it is only a theory. The water trapped in these crytaline rocks is the proof for the theory.

Please take another look and read other sources if it does actually interest you.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: flanimal4114

The story of the flood originated with the Epic of Gilgamesh (Utnapishtim and his ark called 'The Preserver of Life'). The story then traveled from the Tigris-Euphrates valley to Palestine via Abraham, if I am recalling correctly from a Humanities course I once took.

The Tigris-Euphrates valley was prone to unpredictable flooding -- hence the building of ziggurats and the bleak religious beliefs that gods punished people with flooding.

A flood in Palestine is almost unfathomable. O


EDIT: I see now that people have already covered this.

Oh i covered it but i do not believe it at all. i pointed out bible critics say that. i personally think it is nonsense. bible critics are noted for the amount of crow they have to eat eventually when they write off bible as history. The Horscht Kritic school (for example) in particular are famous for having their (asses kicked)/ philosophy undermined by subsequent documentary developments.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

So you think Noah and Utnapishtam each built arks to escape a world-wide flood? Or are you saying you think Noah did but the Epic of Gilgamesh which predates Noah's story is just bunk but the Noah story is truth?

so , my fury friends, what is it? is it possible or not???
I have come to the conclusion it is plausible. so lets lay down the facts to me and then i will edit the main thing so as to get all the facts down and work from that.

tell me what you think all together

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: stormbringer1701

So you think Noah and Utnapishtam each built arks to escape a world-wide flood? Or are you saying you think Noah did but the Epic of Gilgamesh which predates Noah's story is just bunk but the Noah story is truth?

i think like the horscht kritics they pin thier arguments on earliest known extant documents. i believe that like the horscht kritic argument crumbled under the subsequent discovery of earlier and earlier examples of biblical texts; the arguments for the earlier precident of the gilgamesh story are likely merely down to dating errors or loss of documents WRT the biblical Noah flood. another thing is the various calenders used by ancient peoples. some are quite fanciful. even in the bible the jewish lunar and solar calendars confuse thing too. and some calanders like those chronicling the rules of egyptian or chinese rulers are quite improbable.

and if floods are quite normal as you say on those rivers then naturally there could be more than one narrative about more than one flood. what would be unbelievable about that?

what i find beleivable about the two tales whether they are about the same event or not is that one could ave thier livestock and important animals from a regional flood a lot easier than saving all the species of the world from a world flood.

But the Noah flood had a reason that is integral to the biblical narrative. it is a part of the messianic prophesy and salvation plan. without the flood the messianic prophesies would have been void.

though it began in fact in the first earth age the first chronological prophesy about the savior was in the aftermath of the fall in the garden of eden. from that moment the savior had to be descended from Adam and Eve. at the time of the flood only one family was eligible to transmit the line of the savior and they were in danger of extinction. not from the flood but by assimilation with the locals. the next generation would have likely extinguished the last eligible line.

the gilgamesh tale is not about something so grand. it is about one man's personal survival of a natural disaster albeit told with due deference to natural forces personified as they tend to be in superstitious minds as gods and demigods and fairies and titans.

thus the argument about the precidence of the gilgamesh flood tale is turned back on it's proponents. if river floods are common then it follows that there would be tales perhaps even based on real events about people surviving those floods.

but the probability of a natural flood narrative is not evidence against the Noah flood. we have floods on rivers to this very day. and commonly enough people do float their way out of them and sometimes save their animals despite the mass deaths that also occur in floods.

thus every flood narrative is not about "The Flood."

a reply to: stormbringer1701

I think both stories originated from the same place -- which may predate the Mesopotamians.

Regardless, I think the story has a real place in history although details may have been distorted over time and through various interpretations. That's as far as I go with it.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: stormbringer1701

I think both stories originated from the same place -- which may predate the Mesopotamians.

Regardless, I think the story has a real place in history although details may have been distorted over time and through various interpretations. That's as far as I go with it.

given the prevalence of natural disasters such as floods It is not logical to think that every flood narrative must be a retelling of the same flood or for that matter that every flood narrative is actually based on a real event.

originally posted by: flanimal4114
There is many accounts in many cultures of global floods, I'm wondering if this comes from truth? Or scientific proven truth that is.

What if there was a sheet of water in our atmosphere long ago that help stabilise the dinosaurs environment?? Then if solar activity causes this to fall to earth. This would prove the global flood accounts and give an other explanation of dinosaur extinction.

Please tell me what you think on the matter and how this could have happened, or extras in it.

We are starting to get evidence that suggests that there might be an actual event, stories of which could have been passed down as myths of a great flood. At the end of the last ice age, there was a rather sudden melt of the ice caps, relatively speaking. One of the causes of this may have been a comet or asteroid impact, perhaps several (one of which might have accounted for the Younger Dryas freeze). The melt may have caused great lakes of water which were held in place by ice dams, and when those dams broke, water masses the size of the great lakes may have been suddenly unleashed like Tsunamis. There are old Chinese legends of tsunamis that were so tall that it left seawater in mountain valleys. We also have a massive extinction of the fauna of the time like Mammoths, giant sloth and the like, but also mounds of their pulverized remains, the type of debris we would find if masses of them were picked up and smashed into the rocks.

If this happened, and it seems more and more likely, then such an event would have almost wiped out humanity and would probably been a central tale in the mythologies of the cultures that followed.

a reply to: stormbringer1701

The stories are way too similar to be coincidental.

discovermagazine.com...

Attention: i am looking for the impoundment breach on the med sea. consequently i will be editing in interesting links as i find them. this is the first. it's not directly related to the med sea breech but does point to the fact that such breeches do occur and can result in catastrophic regional floods. the Great lakes Indian elder paddling around saving animals is kind of ironic in this light.


Here is one. it is interesting but i am more interested in finding primary sources to pre-empt arguments about bias based on the source.

www.web-expressions.ca...

Global warming pretty much assures it and its weird how modern world's largest cities are built on ISLANDS like MANHATTAN!

originally posted by: flanimal4114
There is many accounts in many cultures of global floods, I'm wondering if this comes from truth? Or scientific proven truth that is.

What if there was a sheet of water in our atmosphere long ago that help stabilise the dinosaurs environment?? Then if solar activity causes this to fall to earth. This would prove the global flood accounts and give an other explanation of dinosaur extinction.

Please tell me what you think on the matter and how this could have happened, or extras in it.

I believe the flood did happen and that it did wipe out the dinosaurs. The Bible did state that in those days large beasts Roamed the earth About 7 thousand years ago man has been here for 6 thousand years .God said that he would not do this Ever again. That's what the rainbows in the sky are for to remind us. But God did say that the next time he will use fire to destroy man. Why because man is evil in all his ways. This is why he sent Jesus to give some of us a chance to be spared from this horrible event that is to start in the 7th millennium. We are here.

originally posted by: piney

originally posted by: flanimal4114
There is many accounts in many cultures of global floods, I'm wondering if this comes from truth? Or scientific proven truth that is.

What if there was a sheet of water in our atmosphere long ago that help stabilise the dinosaurs environment?? Then if solar activity causes this to fall to earth. This would prove the global flood accounts and give an other explanation of dinosaur extinction.

Please tell me what you think on the matter and how this could have happened, or extras in it.

I believe the flood did happen and that it did wipe out the dinosaurs. The Bible did state that in those days large beasts Roamed the earth About 7 thousand years ago man has been here for 6 thousand years .God said that he would not do this Ever again. That's what the rainbows in the sky are for to remind us. But God did say that the next time he will use fire to destroy man. Why because man is evil in all his ways. This is why he sent Jesus to give some of us a chance to be spared from this horrible event that is to start in the 7th millennium. We are here.

the flood that would be responsible for the death of dinos would have happened millions of years ago. the flood under discussion happened a few thousand years ago. not sure the prior world flood; the katabole; killed the dinos -but the dinos were certainly dead after that flood. nothing would have survived. not even a single man such as noah (or his family) or the animals on board.

thus if that is true one should be able to find evidence of a discontinuity in the fossil record and geological record there where new life forms suddenly appeared ex nilo as per line three on in the "creation" narrative and where the prior geological structure was savaged by cataclysms. No life survived the primordial flood and no land was dry above it in other words. that is where we were in line two of the genesis narrative. line three is a the beginning of a grand remodelling project and not the initial creation of earth.

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: stormbringer1701

The stories are way too similar to be coincidental.

So then the american Indian legend about a North American Indian elder paddling his canoe around and saving animals after a godly flood on the great lakes must be Gilgamesh and Noah again.

originally posted by: stormbringer1701

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: stormbringer1701

The stories are way too similar to be coincidental.

So then the american Indian legend about a North American Indian elder paddling his canoe around and saving animals after a godly flood on the great lakes must be Gilgamesh and Noah again.

Could be!

a reply to: andy06shakeIt is as large as an ocean liner. People from our city said there were compartments. It was a child that went inside. I read the same story online some years ago that my grandpa told me in about mid to early 60s. He was born in 1900, and I think people from out city got into the ark in the late 1800s. I think they took stuff from it. It was dark inside. They had no flashlights, I diont know if they took torches with them. I assume so. They stacked boulders up to get to it, because of its enormous heigth, and boosted a kid up. It is very thick and petrified like solid stone. I read that the back may have broken off in an earthquake in the 1920s and tumbled down the mountain. Dont know. I know this though. It is in a sensitive area of Turkey and you will be stopped if you attemp to go near where it is. It is also so high up, that you need oxygen canisters to survive. Your lungs begin to bleed, and your body begins to die. I believe that the governments know exactly where it is, and what it is, yet keep it under wraps for a reason. There was at one time an old film of the Russian millitary marching by below it. That old film from the 20s has been lost or hidden

originally posted by: MotherMayEye

My house doesn't have the mass and gravitational pull the earth has to keep it from flying apart though.

Sorry it took me a while to come back to you.

Do you think you could expand a cave then?
I don't think you can just shift and slide matter like, the Earth does but it takes millions of years to do so.