America is the Greatest Threat to World Peace

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Wardaddy454

Conjecture yes, hyperbole no. If we used it one time we'd use it again, I think that's a logical assumption. What's the point in having them and continuing to build then if we have no intention of using them?

We aren't building more. And if we were so hell bent on using them again, I'm sure it would have happened by now. It's more logical to assume at this point that since we have a pretty advanced military compared to any potential rivals, we can fight conventionally and that our nuclear arsenal at is for "second strike" capability.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Sorry, but The Americans weren't the only one committing "atrocities".

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

You really believe that guy wasn't the exception to the rule? Those bombs destroyed generations of lives. You can't just look at that one person and ignore everyone else, that's ignorant.

Take a look at this link to get an idea of the damage done by the bombs.

Do you really think the Japanese were the only ones who suffered? My own uncle was killed by them, my father's closest brother, and my father, who also fought in the war,NEVER got over it.My uncle was 19 years old, hadn't even lived yet. Our whole family suffered as a result. Multiply my experience times 100,000. It wasn't just the Japanese. And a lot of innocent people were killed and maimed on all sides. Ask the Chinese about the Japanese atrocities that were committed against them. Unfortunately that happens in war. but to Blame one and ignore the crimes of the other combatants is unacceptable. One question for you. If Japan had gotten the bomb before the US, do you think for a minute they would have hesitated to use it(and Japan DID have an atomic program)? Most of the west coast would have gotten the answer. WWII was a horrible war and EVERYONE involved suffered. Do you think there weren't American soldiers who got disfigured horribly? I had a neighbor who flew P-38s in the Pacific and was horribly burned, at 91 he still had the scars. .A lot of Americans have spilled their blood through the years so you could have the freedom to write this. Keep that in mind and have a little more respect. One last thing, if that bomb hadnt been dropped, my father would have most likely been killed in the continuing war and I would NOT be here to write this. Dropping that bomb ended the war and saved untold American AND Japanese lives.

a reply to: Shamrock6

And seriously? I'm not even going to address the continued ignorance about why they were dropped on Japan. Yea, they made a point. The point was "surrender or we'll keep doing this because we're not willing to sacrifice a million of our men to force your surrender." That's not quite the "point" you're pretending it was (aka nanny nanny boo boo we have nukes and you don't!)

I love this one, it's just, ahhh reeks of programmed education doesnt it.
dude you do realise they, and I do mean the Japanese were crushed by this stage of the war, the people were broken. but you keep holding onto that government fed bull# story that the people, old men, women and baby's, little baby's would have attacked Americans, with forks mind you if you had have invaded.
I mean it's not like we couldnt have sat off the coast and waited for them to capitulate after we bombed them for a few weeks.
The god honest fact is that you guys had a new weapon and wanted to live test it, and you people have swallowed a bull# story to help you feel better at night, i think that deserves a slow Bravo clap to Edward Bernays.
Bravo to you sir Bravo.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You see it's not my burden to prove it did, as you are the one saying it didn't...the burden is on you to prove why it didn't.

Whta a complete cop out! You can't even admit that the war was illegal. Iraq is a hell hole now. Even worse than it was before, all because of us. Hence the reason it went to high court. And i believe its criminal that blair and bush will get away with this. There was no chemical weapons found, and it had nothing to do with 9/11, so what more proof do you need?

You do understand that NK is kept in check by China...nobody kept Saddam in check, also know that terrorist were allowed to stay in Iraq as long as they didn't bother Saddam or cause trouble in Iraq. Also know the fact that Saddam had shown he would use chemical weapons on innocent Kurds without recourse...something MK has never done. Learn about the things Saddam did to his own people...then learn what NK has done and there is no comparison.

Does not matter what saddam was doing to his own people, as bad as it was, that does not justify a war. The invasion was also pointless because we actually managed to make iraq a worse place with many millions sying since the war.

The difference is, north korea can actually hurt you. Iraq could not.

link

Only a matter of time until they have the long ranfe missiles. And this is a nation that has said they would launch one at the us. This is more worrying than iraq. Heck i am more worried about iraq after we invaded them because it is now a full breeding ground for terrorists. But i forgot, north korea does not have oil

Effectively the US and the UK were going to war with Iraq using permission for a war 13 years earlier. Technically it could be argued that this was legal. However, this was not the intention of 678 which related to Kuwait, nor is it the intention of the principles in the UN Charter. Most crucially, the key assumption that the UN weapons inspectors were not being allowed free reign at the time was false. UN Chief Weapons Inspector Hans Blix stated only weeks before the war that his team had successfully inspected the majority of sites, uncovering no real evidence, and he only needed a few more months to complete the task. Shockingly, Blix revealed in an interview in 2003 that Vice-President Dick Cheney said to him “we will not hesitate to discredit you in favour of disarmament.” In other words, tell us there are WMD’s or we will claim you’re incompetent and go to war anyway. It was also not proven that Iraq was involved in September 11 therefore the US could not claim to be acting in self-defence. In terms of pre-emptive self-defence – that is attacking them before they get a chance to attack you – this has not been established in international law due to the rather large grey area it would create. The US and UK governments, along with a willing media, created a sense in the public that the legal test was ‘do we think they have WMDs?’ As you can see from international law and their legal reasoning, it wasn’t that simple at all. Given it can be reasonably considered illegal, and the astronomical number of casualties, the Iraq War could arguably be seen as the biggest crime of the decade. Photo/UN Photo - President George W Bush and UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan

sound legal to you?

And yet when any oil contract came up it was a Chinese firm that won it...only one American company is in Iraq and wants to sell their stake they have there...I guess it really wasn't about the oil was it? Seems if it were all about the oil we would have made sure we had the contracts for the oil fields not the Chinese. And you do know your link has nothing to do with the oil in Iraq...it's about returning veterans?

link

Link says it all really

Oh you can, but to say you know all about how veterans are treated by the US government is laughable as you see what get's reported...only the bad things are what you see, as an American we see the good that happens which doesn't get reported and like this thread all that get's talked about is the bad things.

And there seems to be alot of bad. Unless all these veterans are lying. There is alot of nad things . There should not be any! We are talking about people putting their life on the line for their country, only to be treated like crap when they come home. If you think there are on a few cases like this, you are delusional.

And there are just as many if not more that have stories who were treated good when they got back...but of course those don't matter because the bad is all you think happens to them

Just as many, if not more. Seems like you don't know. Even if its just a quarter of veterans, thats still disgracful!

I have never denied a thing, but I see what good happens to veterans in this country, and I see the bad, but I also don't say because of the bad that makes the US the greatest threat to world peace. As for you being from the UK...good for you, but don't think you know how every veteran in the US is treated the way you think they have.

No, i dont know every veteran in the us. Just like you don't. But it seems that us veterans are not happy

link

I guess the same could be said of you...but of course since you live in the UK you know more about how troops are treated than those who live in the US and know and work with many who were either in the military or have family members that were in the war and returned that have been treated good.

Well, considering i hve worked for a number of charities including help the heroes and the royal britsh legion, i know exactly how bad it can be for alot of troops coming back home. And its the same in the US.

No, i think you really need to read more, and not just listen to the bs that comes out of these sociopaths mouths

link

we very much had a hand in these two groups. To deny that is just ignorant

a reply to: PLAYERONE01

Blah blah blah.

Yep they were so crushed that around 200,000 lives were spent during the taking of Okinawa. That's not government spin, seeing as the Japanese numbers support the American numbers. And that would be only the bodies that were counted on the island, not taking into account those who died later of wounds sustained during the battle.

Whatever. America sucks. Everybody else good. Death to the great Satan.

a reply to: Jay-morris

Whta a complete cop out! You can't even admit that the war was illegal.

Why, because you and a few websites say so?

Does not matter what saddam was doing to his own people, as bad as it was, that does not justify a war.

Ah yes, I see your logic...let people die as long as they aren't bothering you. Great logic.

Link says it all really

Yes it does...

Britain took a leading role in invading Iraq, government documents show.

Maybe you should be pointing the finger at your government as it was them who took the lead in the invasion of Iraq...as your link says.

And your saying the US was only going to war for oil yet your link is talking about the English government and them meeting oil execs, not the US. SO in fact your own source contradicts your whole premise of why the US went to Iraq, and the fact it was the British government who in fact had these meetings not the US.

No, i dont know every veteran in the us. Just like you don't. But it seems that us veterans are not happy

I imagine you don't know many at all, but you do have some that have bad experiences returning from warzones, but you have more that have been able to deal with their problems and your link even says so in the first few sentences...

Just wondering if you actually read the article, because if you did you would see the morale is low because of a few things...one being the amount of training they are doing to stay ready in case they deploy overseas...it takes a toll after awhile.

The other being the loss of decent raises and not getting training for things that they can use when they get out of the military. It is something that is expected when a country is trying to cut their spending. When budgets get cut so do programs in the military, so the US gov't is doing these things out of necessity...not because they don't care about the troops.

Well, considering i hve worked for a number of charities including help the heroes and the royal britsh legion, i know exactly how bad it can be for alot of troops coming back home. And its the same in the US.

So is that because you know personally that it is the same, or are you just making a blanket statement hoping your right?

link

You know what's funny about your link...even you can get an article published on their, so not a very good source for actual truth. More like reader generated bias.

we very much had a hand in these two groups. To deny that is just ignorant

So unless someone agrees with you they are ignorant...Thanks for clarifying that for me.

World peace, what peace? I have run out of fingers counting the amount of bush wars going on around the world, every continent except Australia has a bush war going on or more, bush war as in small war not between 'the great nations' but some little nation like Nigeria and such.(Boka harem)
Plus the guerilla wars, maoist on the India/Pakistan borders, maoits in the Philippines, Muslim Al-Quada in Afghanistan, isis in the Levant and middle east, the drug wars from Mexico southwards, the little wars on the southern edge of Saudi Arabia, Syria, Palestinians and Jews, don't forget Jews were there before King Solomon, Indonesia has a little war going on, no idea who those guerilla's are fighting for.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Why, because you and a few websites say so?

Just a few websites? You think its just a few random people in their rooms saying it was an illegal war? Wow, these few people must have been enough to court, which it has. Blair, has already been questioned, but they can't touch bush, which is a sigh of relief because that man can't chew gum and walk at the same time!

If you really think that this is all down to a few websites, then you have already showed your ignorance, which means your mind is pretty much made up.

You told me to give you proof that the iraq war did not make you safer. You have ignored the fact that no chemical weapons were found, you ignore the fact that oil companies were meeting with western governments to talk about the oil once they were in there. The excuse for invading iraq was because of the "war on terror" , but its been proven that we were thinking about the iraq oil way before 9/11, so that excuse was BS

Ah yes, I see your logic...let people die as long as they aren't bothering you. Great logic.

When have i ever said that i am fine about these people dying, as long as it does not bother me? The fact is, there are many countries where people are being treated bad. Why are we not going there? If we invaded iraq, for the good of the people, like we are led to believe, what about these other countries in the same state?

And if it was for the good of the people, then we should be in there right now cleaning up the huge mess we made. But nope, we are not

Maybe you should be pointing the finger at your government as it was them who took the lead in the invasion of Iraq...as your link says. And your saying the US was only going to war for oil yet your link is talking about the English government and them meeting oil execs, not the US. SO in fact your own source contradicts your whole premise of why the US went to Iraq, and the fact it was the British government who in fact had these meetings not the US.

Did you miss the part where i said blair and bush should be punished for war crimes? I have always stayed that our government was just as guilty. So, please read my posts.

I imagine you don't know many at all, but you do have some that have bad experiences returning from warzones, but you have more that have been able to deal with their problems and your link even says so in the first few sentences...

Well, i know alot about it in the uk because i have worked in that area, and have seen what it can be like for many veterans coming back home. And what i have read about the us. Its pretty much the same. You can deny that as much as you want, but its the truth.

ust wondering if you actually read the article, because if you did you would see the morale is low because of a few things...one being the amount of training they are doing to stay ready in case they deploy overseas...it takes a toll after awhile. The other being the loss of decent raises and not getting training for things that they can use when they get out of the military. It is something that is expected when a country is trying to cut their spending. When budgets get cut so do programs in the military, so the US gov't is doing these things out of necessity...not because they don't care about the troops.

Course i have read it Many factors come into why these veterans feel like they do. And thats the sad part, that there are many factors. Like the link i showed you. There are many!

So is that because you know personally that it is the same, or are you just making a blanket statement hoping your right?

I am saying i have seen it first hand in the uk because i have worked for these charities. Of course i don't know first hand when it comes to america, but thats the great thing about the internet. You learn its pretty much everywhere, including the US, and i have shown.

You know what's funny about your link...even you can get an article published on their, so not a very good source for actual truth. More like reader generated bias.

Just one of many. Just because anyone can post on there, does not mean its rubbish. This is really pointless because no matter what i say, or post, you just don't listen. But i will give it another shot

here

So unless someone agrees with you they are ignorant...Thanks for clarifying that for me.

The evidence is there. If you choose to ignore it, then yes, that does make you ignorant.

Come on, you have already stated that you feel the illegal war in iraq kept you safe, even though the war had nothing to do with the safty for you, and the american people, and people in the uk. We were told that this was a war on terror, even though evidence suggests we were talking about the iraq oil before 9/11.

They said they were liberating the iraq people. Why are they not in there now cleaning up the mess they made, while millions of iraq people die and isis get bigger and bigger.

Yeah, sounds like they really care!

a reply to: Jay-morris

here

AH okay a paper from the ME where most hate the US...what do you expect them to write?

They also link back to what they say is high level confirmation but in fact it is nothing more than a site where again even you can have an article printed.

But now with just a little research I see the document they base their claims on came from the one and only Judicialwatch.org...the same people who brought us this fine story...

ISIS Camp a Few Miles from Texas, Mexican Authorities Confirm

Guess what no Mexican official confirmed this fine journalistic crap.

www.politifact.com...

And I can give you more if you like, but the fact that your link leads back to Judicialwatch.org just shows the validity of your story.

You really should check your sources.

Here let me also add this about the report you think proves your point...

www.thedailybeast.com...


Oh and here let me not forget this one either...

Our right wing is in a flutter over recently declassified and released Pentagon intelligence documents regarding Middle Eastern events in recent years. FoxNews is blaring about failures to miss the rise of the Islamic State and (of course) about Benghazi, in its customary way, but without much context.

Worse is this piece, which has a pronouncedly conspiratorial bent, implying that the Pentagon was somehow in on the rise of the Islamic State — which is precisely what Tehran and Moscow want you to think. The documents in question, obtained through a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit by Judicial Watch, a right-wing group, can be seen in full here, but the report generating the most heat, if not light, is this one.

This is an early August 2012 field report to the Defense Intelligence Agency, known in the trade as an Intelligence Information Report or IIR. As it states clearly, this is an “information report, not finally evaluated intelligence.” Its contents are deemed explosive by those seeking explosions. According to outraged observers online, this DIA IIR is “proof” that “the Pentagon” and “the Intelligence Community” knew more about the rise of the Islamic State than they let on. At best, they’re fools; at worst, they’re deceivers who have lied to the American people.

20committee.com...

Enjoy.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

You just don't seem to listen. It does not matter what my links are, you can find the evidence anywhere

link

But you seem like you don't want to listen! You asked me to post proof that Iraq invasion had nothing to do with American people. I did and you ignore it.

You tried to make out that I was saying that this is all about the us. You were wrong as I never said that and blame the UK government just as much.

The truth to you is a speech from an official. That's good enough for you because they know best because they really care about you and want to protect you lol

You are a lost cause, a government pet who never questions. They say they care about you and want to protect you and you believe it!

Some people are more easily conditioned than others. Sad fact is, we see all these horrible things happening in the world, the wars, murders, torture, corruption, and the governments are behind a good percentage of them. But they have conditioned us with patriotism for your country, that they can pretty much get away with everything because there will always be people like you, and as long as there are people like you, this will never stop

I'm done

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1I'm sure I'll get a lot of hate for this post but I know it to be true. America is nothing like what Americans think. We are the greatest threat to world peace, bar none. History and current events prove that in my opinion.

When I was younger I would have agreed with you wholeheartedly. I was a young liberal-minded person (possibly like yourself) when we launched Operation Iraqi Freedom. I felt at the time we were being bullies and wanted a war. Yep I also felt Saddam was a bad person, a tyrant and even a killer. But I also knew our war with Iraq was going to result in a lot of people dying. I just didn't agree it was worth it.

How do I feel now? Well, the world is a lot more complicated to me now than it was then. To my young mind, everything was simple. American was bad. The rest of the world was mostly good. But as I've grown, I've come to know there's a lot of good and bad everywhere. America is such a wealthy nation that its activities are well known and visible. All you have to do is dig to find dirt elsewhere, but you'll certainly find it like I did.

My feeling is someone is always going to be a superpower and they're never going to be angels. So lets say america loses its superpower status and possibly gives you some happy time. Who replaces them? China? An alliance between europe/asia/africa? They might give hte impression of being better, at least at first, but it's all a facade. Underneath, we're all the same: selfish, prideful, ignorant, etc. I know not everyone is equally selfish or prideful or ignorant, but everybody has it and usually it balances out, meaning every is equally (and uniquely) flawed.

And let me remind what Saddam did:
1) Iran/Iraq war; he also ordered use of chemical weapons on people in his territory--during this period of time
(Source)
2) Invaded Kuwait--Wikipedia: Gulf War
3) Made the following statement:
(Source)

On Tuesday he was seen on television banging his fist on the table in anger, criticising Arabs for not doing enough in response to Israeli killings in the Palestinian territories.

He said the great people of Iraq were ready to destroy Zionism right now and he called on Arabs to brandish their swords and make the sacrifices needed.

Iraq has also been calling for a holy war to liberate Jerusalem from Israeli control. President Saddam Hussein has said Iraq did not need to wait for sanctions to be lifted before striking Israel.

4) This was what he said after 9/11:
(Source)

..."the American cowboys are reaping the fruit of their crimes against humanity".

5) Inteferrence (lack of cooperation) with UN weapon inspectors
(Source)
6) Disregard for no-fly zones (admittedly these were not initiated by UN)
(Sources: link, link)
7) Foiled assassination attempt on Bush senior on his visit to Kuwait
(source)

The Nuclear Bomb was the worst thing ever invented and unleashed upon the world.
The Manhatten Project was conceived at Bohemia Grove.
Once they let the "Nuclear Genie" out of the bottle, it couldn't be put back.
Oppenheimer quoted "Lo, I am become Death, destroyer of worlds"
In other words, he saw himself as God.

originally posted by: Antidisestablishment
The Nuclear Bomb was the worst thing ever invented and unleashed upon the world.
The Manhatten Project was conceived at Bohemia Grove.
Once they let the "Nuclear Genie" out of the bottle, it couldn't be put back.
Oppenheimer quoted "Lo, I am become Death, destroyer of worlds"
In other words, he saw himself as God.

Pfft. I see it as a necessary evil. We will always invent new ways of destroying. What matters is we learn to use them (and wage war) maturely. If we did indeed live in the hypothetical world where nuclear weapons were never made, I dare to say we'd still be living like cavemen.

Evil and good are part of our nature. They come wrapped up together in such a way they cannot be separated and/or eliminated.

My opinion so nobody get heated over it.

i really like your point on how america police's other countries, and the one thing i feel is that another country should be allowed to defend themselves... my biggest fear, is that one day we will destroy ourselves, and i know alot of other people feel the same way. after all that is the reason why we protest against creating them... but what people dont realize is that it happened, war happened, technology happened, and no matter how much we wish it didnt, its not going to go away.

but, here is what i recieved via infrasonics from our CIA, "we are prepaired for warfare from other planets," "we are prepaired for black holes, we are prepaired for anything that (we) and our (computers) could make up. and our weapons are stockpiled to do so... a nuke isnt the worst thing that could happen, we have SAT's that could #1 destroy the entire world #2 recreate the entire world. both work in a flash, "less than 1 second that is" and they test these tools over and over again without you knowing...

So after explaining exactly what we could do and why we do it, tell me you dont want our defenses up and running when it comes to interplanetary warfare... and my second note, we are prepairing everyone for warfare... that is why they opted to let iran build nukes, that is why were giving them money, that is why were helping. some of you act like Iran isnt filled with people just like you, "people who care"... "people who will do anything to see you smile"...

simple fact is, we prepairing them for anything that can happen, war is childish.

a reply to: Jay-morris

You just don't seem to listen. It does not matter what my links are, you can find the evidence anywhere

And you seem to just deny what is actually the truth.

You asked me to post proof that Iraq invasion had nothing to do with American people.

No I asked you to provide proof that the US was only there for oil...and you still haven't done that yet.

You say the US was talking about the Iraqi oil before the invasion then you post a link that shows who was talking to the oil companies before it happened and you seem to just dismiss that...why?

You tried to make out that I was saying that this is all about the us.

And yet you do, as I have not once see you say anything about the fact England was more instrumental in trying to get oil companies to discuss oil there than America was.

You are a lost cause, a government pet who never questions. They say they care about you and want to protect you and you believe it!

Ah yes, when someone disagree's with you they are a conditioned government pet...shows how much you actually know about someone, as I have said many times that I do not agree with what my country does...but depending on the circumstances I won't condemn what they do.

Some people are more easily conditioned than others. Sad fact is, we see all these horrible things happening in the world, the wars, murders, torture, corruption, and the governments are behind a good percentage of them. But they have conditioned us with patriotism for your country, that they can pretty much get away with everything because there will always be people like you, and as long as there are people like you, this will never stop

I'm done

People like me you say?

People who don't fall for conspiracy theories, and do research that contradicts what you believe to be true.

That kind of person?

Or is it you don't like having your beliefs questioned by someone?

I believe I know which it is.

I'm done

Imagine that.

I have to laugh that your source is using judicial watch as the source for their story...

I guess people will believe anything.

I'm going to say that you are 100% Correct!

However, there is room for doubt as America has not gone too far yet, there is still time to change before this scenario plays out.

Yet, taking into account that if we tally the numbers after WW2, we alone through direct and indirect conflicts killed off 30-40 million civilians.

In name of Democracy and McDonalds for everyone. Oh! Don't forget the Nike!

It rather paints a gruesome picture and the Administration of now poking the Russian bear with a spear, is just asking for an all out war. However, Putin has his head in the right place and is playing the game rather too well, instead of behaving like a child that a few politicians on this blue rock are.

The up coming UN meeting in October may also be the first stepping stone towards World Peace

Let's just hope a few members of a certain government Administration finally listen to reason that is

Mod Edit

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

If the japs had atomic bombs they would have used them on Pearl Harbor. It was a different time but they pushed us into a corner by destroying s chunk of our navy.

Blame the administrations not America you and I both don't want war but have no say it. We need change and I'm not talking about the stimulus checks Obama gave us 5 years or so ago.

I'll admit your post is very good though just have a problem with branding America the threat when it's a handful of people pulling the strings. Nice post though thanks.