New Mexico Court Forced a Mother To Take Religious Classes Or Face Losing Her Kids

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Reallyfolks

The God's shouldn't be involved with gov't games, nor should the games involve the Gods.
weather or not she should have went to the counseling I really can't say. But when she did go, I wonder if she had to pretend to go through the motions when it came to God to get the kids back? If she had to read the bible verses, comment on them, ect. To be honest, I might have been there, but I wouldn't have been compliant with her as long as the "God" was part of the topic of the discussion.
What do you think, do you think that that noncompliance would have also been seen in an unfavorable light in the judge's eyes?

If they should or should not is irrelevant. You play the game to keep your children and fight after the fact. Or you get on the phone every hour until you get resolution so you can finish the court order with a different counselor.

What should be and reality don't always match. You play the game of reality until what should be is the reality. That's life not just this courts orders. Those who successfully navigate the games normally succeed, those that don't, normally don't and do anwful lot of complaining. In this case play the game or take proper channels to change it. You do neither you lost your children. Sucks yes, but it's life.

a reply to: C21H30O2I

Well, I mean I don't know. Do we know for a fact that this is how Pepper handles her business?

I had colleague when I was teaching. She and I were both white in an urban school with a more or less 50/50 black and Hispanic student body. My colleague had a head teacher on her team who made no bones that she felt only blacks could properly educate black children. One day, my colleague put her hand on a girl's shoulder and later on the two had a disciplinary falling out. The girl went straight to the head team teacher and the hand on shoulder become an incident of her being struck, and the team lead believed the girl.

The personal biases we all carry can make a story slant in all kinds of ways. If you don't like religion, then you are suspicious and want to side with the complaint. If you have no ax to grind, you may step back and realize this woman was likely not parent of the year to begin with and sometimes, people in her position can be unreliable in character. If you hate child services and the interfering state, again you might dislike the state's handling of things, etc.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: C21H30O2I

Well, I mean I don't know. Do we know for a fact that this is how Pepper handles her business?

They recorded her.

originally posted by: alienmma
Let me guess this is just another liberal lie to further the PC agenda?

They recorded her.

She was pushing God.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: C21H30O2I

Well, I mean I don't know. Do we know for a fact that this is how Pepper handles her business?

No, I don't know this for a fact..

I had colleague when I was teaching. She and I were both white in an urban school with a more or less 50/50 black and Hispanic student body. My colleague had a head teacher on her team who made no bones that she felt only blacks could properly educate black children. One day, my colleague put her hand on a girl's shoulder and later on the two had a disciplinary falling out. The girl went straight to the head team teacher and the hand on shoulder become an incident of her being struck, and the team lead believed the girl.

Yeah, that's a bummer and in today's world the younger ones, think only of themselves, hell even older folks, a lot of people seem to be oh me, me. and some, i know don't stop short, at twisting a story to get what they want. I guess, this is why camera's are hidden everywhere... It would have helped your colleague , no?

The personal biases we all carry can make a story slant in all kinds of ways. If you don't like religion, then you are suspicious and want to side with the complaint. If you have no ax to grind, you may step back and realize this woman was likely not parent of the year to begin with and sometimes, people in her position can be unreliable in character. If you hate child services and the interfering state, again you might dislike the state's handling of things, etc.

I agree.

a reply to: Annee

ya check out that video....whew been reading so long different topics.. ok back on track.. Thanks Annee!

a reply to: Reallyfolks

yes well this is after the fact, and I hope they prevent such a thing from happening again. and for some reason, I really do think there would be one huge stink about it if it wasn't verses from the christian bible but rather another. or an idol that was being prayed to.

a reply to: Annee

Yes, and to you I'm sure just having the word "God" on a dollar bill is pushing God.

originally posted by: ketsuko
If you have no ax to grind, you may step back and realize this woman was likely not parent of the year to begin with and sometimes, people in her position can be unreliable in character.

That has NOTHING to do with the fact that this woman was ordered to a religious counselor. You're just trying to impugn Salzman's character. You have NO IDEA what kind of a parent she is. And I can't help notice that you haven't said a WORD about the character of the woman who illegally holds her counseling sessions in the library for free, insists on cash payment at the time of service, and obstinately pushes her religion on her captive audience...

Yeah, real classy.

when are non-religious people going to be protected from the religious people?

originally posted by: dawnstar
a reply to: Reallyfolks

yes well this is after the fact, and I hope they prevent such a thing from happening again. and for some reason, I really do think there would be one huge stink about it if it wasn't verses from the christian bible but rather another. or an idol that was being prayed to.

And that's fine, me I would play the game to keep my kids and call to get counselor changed. Again it sucks. But in the grand scheme does keeping your kids take priority or taking a stand and simply refusing to show. Until what should be meets reality, prioritize and play the games based on it, or take a stand and face the consequences.

Does it sucks, yes. Many things in life do.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Yes, and to you I'm sure just having the word "God" on a dollar bill is pushing God.

Absolutely it does.

God should not be on any government document in America.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Yes, and to you I'm sure just having the word "God" on a dollar bill is pushing God.

Absolutely it does.

God should not be on any government document in America.

Dollar isn't a a government document. It's a federal reserve note. Is the federal reserve an actual federal entity?

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Annee

Yes, and to you I'm sure just having the word "God" on a dollar bill is pushing God.

Absolutely it does.

God should not be on any government document in America.

I agree 100 with you on that!

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
I would play the game to keep my kids and call to get counselor changed.

She called TWICE to report this counselor and get it changed, but the court ignored her, so she stopped going.

Does it sucks, yes. Many things in life do.

Absolutely. And to be truthful, I would probably just go and keep my mouth shut. I would want to have the whole thing over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because life sometimes sucks. But I understand her actions.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
I would play the game to keep my kids and call to get counselor changed.

She called TWICE to report this counselor and get it changed, but the court ignored her, so she stopped going.

Does it sucks, yes. Many things in life do.

Absolutely. And to be truthful, I would probably just go and keep my mouth shut. I would want to have the whole thing over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because life sometimes sucks. But I understand her actions.

That's what it comes down to. Are you willing to accept consequences. I break the law everyday speeding. I make that choice. If I get a ticket I could go off. I could say really shouldn't you be worried about real crime? I made a choice and accept the ticket though I didn't play the game right. I'll vote for a speed increase of given the chance. Until it sucks but I play the game and am willing to accept the consequences

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
I would play the game to keep my kids and call to get counselor changed.

She called TWICE to report this counselor and get it changed, but the court ignored her, so she stopped going.

Does it sucks, yes. Many things in life do.

Absolutely. And to be truthful, I would probably just go and keep my mouth shut. I would want to have the whole thing over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because life sometimes sucks. But I understand her actions.

I've had a similar situation. For the life of me I can't remember what it was, but do remember what happened.

In real life, I'm mostly like the water that flows peacefully around the rocks. But, piss me off and I'm a Scorpio backed into a corner.

The counselor kept trying to introduce something into the discussion that was not relevant. I took charge and made it extremely clear that we would continue on without it.

So I do know I would inform this counselor God would not be a part of our discussion. And I would be direct and adament if she tried.

It's my counseling session. Not hers.

Whether you believe in a Higher Power or not is irrelevant. Religious indoctrination is one's choice and has nothing to do with an order for counseling.

I would have walked out at the first mention of an Almighty. For instance I choose to believe that we return to the source of all things, the Universe itself. We are energy encased in a shell of flesh. In order to experience physical reality, we are encased in flesh and take our experiences back to the source. The Universe is alive and it needs our input.

Just my 2 cents, the system is just completely bent IMHO.

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
I would play the game to keep my kids and call to get counselor changed.

She called TWICE to report this counselor and get it changed, but the court ignored her, so she stopped going.

Does it sucks, yes. Many things in life do.

Absolutely. And to be truthful, I would probably just go and keep my mouth shut. I would want to have the whole thing over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because life sometimes sucks. But I understand her actions.

I've had a similar situation. For the life of me I can't remember what it was, but do remember what happened.

In real life, I'm mostly like the water that flows peacefully around the rocks. But, piss me off and I'm a Scorpio backed into a corner.

The counselor kept trying to introduce something into the discussion that was not relevant. I took charge and made it extremely clear that we would continue on without it.

So I do know I would inform this counselor God would not be a part of our discussion. And I would be direct and adament if she tried.

It's my counseling session. Not hers.

I guess if I wanted to keep my kids, was forced to play the game, and was atheist. I would have spent the 10 sessions engaging in debate trying to convert her to atheist I would have had as much fun as possible with it. But that's me. If I have to play a game, I'll follow the rules to keep my kids but play on my terms. Just me though.

originally posted by: Reallyfolks

originally posted by: Annee

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: Reallyfolks
I would play the game to keep my kids and call to get counselor changed.

She called TWICE to report this counselor and get it changed, but the court ignored her, so she stopped going.

Does it sucks, yes. Many things in life do.

Absolutely. And to be truthful, I would probably just go and keep my mouth shut. I would want to have the whole thing over with as quickly and painlessly as possible. Because life sometimes sucks. But I understand her actions.

I've had a similar situation. For the life of me I can't remember what it was, but do remember what happened.

In real life, I'm mostly like the water that flows peacefully around the rocks. But, piss me off and I'm a Scorpio backed into a corner.

The counselor kept trying to introduce something into the discussion that was not relevant. I took charge and made it extremely clear that we would continue on without it.

So I do know I would inform this counselor God would not be a part of our discussion. And I would be direct and adament if she tried.

It's my counseling session. Not hers.

I guess if I wanted to keep my kids, was forced to play the game, and was atheist. I would have spent the 10 sessions engaging in debate trying to convert her to atheist I would have had as much fun as possible with it. But that's me. If I have to play a game, I'll follow the rules to keep my kids but play on my terms. Just me though.

Why would I introduce atheism?

It's as relevant as God.

I'm very good at "playing the game", I'm also vey good at making it clear what will/will not happen.