'Refugee shows us his true intentions'

a reply to: verschickter

he said several things yes but still none of them are exactly very racist most of it is about integration which they refuse to do, religion as a whole has no room in modern society so saying Islam has no room isn't exactly racist either, maybe I missed something?.

it is however inspired by the quran is it not? also a large number of countries embrace Sharia Law completely or partially , afaik Iraq and Syria go by it?, ofc that does not mean every person living there accepts it but there would be a large majority otherwise you would most likely get your head chopped off for not following it.

is it a coincidence then that most of the migrants to the UK/France follow Sharia law? ofc I have no proof of that, but, observing their actions in these countries once settled, it very much seems as the majority do follow it.

I would not say you defend them, merely you do not fully want to believe the majority are capable of these acts? there are only a few? I hope you are right, because if not, Germany is going to suffer greatly soon.

a reply to: Vamana
Oh this is getting a longer text but I hope some here will read through. It´s something I never read here on ATS and it´s time someone writes it down and if it has to be me with my humble english.

I have some Egyptian friends I made over the years while visiting the country and the majority of them are muslims, one is catholic. Not one of them (ok, I they would not befriend me if otherwise) is living the sharia way. They all respect other religions and it´s always a nice conversation when we talk about religions. Quran shares many prophets from the bible for example, you will find all those storys about abraham, moses, david etc.

Let me explain something most people do not know. It´s another thinking way. When my egyptian muslim friends go bathing in public, they too wear full clothes. It´s because they believe in this: If you go around "bragging" with your body, you reduce yourself to that and make other people have sinful thoughts(bodyenvy for example). In muslim culture, at least in egypt, a women is considered a 'shining star', valued and it has nothing to do with forcing them to wear headscarfes or hijabs. The women are all the same in public and no one is valued or judged because of their looks or body features like we do it in the western world. The men also cover themselfes while bathing for example.

When I went there with my wife the first time, I was there a couple of times before and so I told and explained her that it´s expected to at least cover arms and feet in something. It has to do with respect. This is the same for me as a man. Nobody in egypt will walk towards you when you are dressed inappropriate and will tell you that. On the other hand, many of our friendships got a kickstart when a egyptian took the time to appreciate our concerns in valueing their culture. You would not believe the different occiacions where I was approached in Kairo or when we were just downtown Alexandria, Hurghada, ElQuesir, MarsaAlam, even Sharm el shaike (yeah it´s spelled wrong) and invited for some hibiskus tea and small snacks. They were and are very open to other cultures, don´t get a wrong impression on that. Of course, if you have a hooky nose and speak some arabic or even both, arabic and egyptian arabic, doors are open. I learned that pretty quick on the fly it´s not that hard to learn, at least speaking it.

The women wear beautiful clothes at home most of the women here would envy. Two of our friends have no concern and the wifes are a little bit shy first to wear it in front of you at home. But as friendship deepens they also dress more open because you are considered family. Of course this took years to establish because we were there on vacation mostly and not several times per year.

It´s when you respect the minimum expectances then you get respect back. When I explained some of them our more open, western viewpoint, most of them reckoned that one has to have a strong mind to not cheat on your wife with all those temptations but also have some more freedoms regarding clothes in public and other things.

That´s also the reason, why western dressed women(short skirts, boobies visible, you get the drift) become no respect from male children and often get touched inappropriate. It´s percieved they want it like that. We never had problems like this. Now the headscarf serves the purpose of sun blocking also it protects the head and most of them have black hair so imagine. It´s not only because of privacy.

It´s just when you never had the chance to talk to someone coming from another culture, you can´t understand their reasoning. In muslim culture, if someone lends money to another, they are not allowed to demand interest rates by Quran. They don´t have that concept, that money works for itself. One is free to give money in return but not on a demand base. And that is one of the big problems western bankers have with the muslim culture.

I hope that cleared the mind of some people here.

However, I am aware of the growing extremist muslim counts. I´m also not blind to what happens in Berlin or London.
But it´s with most things, the good ones go unnoticed because they do not fall out of order. The bad rotten apples always smell and catch the eye in a basked of good apples.

a reply to: verschickter

Are you in Bavaria? I was stationed in schwienfurt, and lived in wurzburg, I'm just trying to gather an approximate area this is occurring, I know that Bavaria is close enough that this is probably happening there, even when I was a U.S army soldier the Turkish population and us were always fighting eachother.

The Turkish people were problematic then,I can only imagine how it is now 7 years later. Not to say us American soldiers didn't cause problems, because as you know if there's a bar and we are in it there's probably a fight.

Having said that, I see this as a Trojan horse. Attacks likely will increase and with more organization, I'm sorry about the posters equating you to nazis, they are ignorant and have no idea. Your people in this day and age are so far from nazi it's not even comparable.

I remember a German lover I had, her name was Kathy; we would discuss politics and national pride, which me being American I have a lot of. She described something I felt while there ,but she put it into words, Germans don't have 'national pride' to be patriotic is to be nazi.

Here's the thing,you gotta stand up for what's right and screw what all the PC people and ignorant folk say. Perhaps it's nearing time for the U.S to beef up military precense over there, your country has become like family to America, I'm sorry this is happening,you have a beautiful country and beautiful people and culture. I had the time of my life while there and you have every right to protect your sovereignty, and great culture!

a reply to: TechniXcality

Here's the thing,you gotta stand up for what's right and screw what all the PC people and ignorant folk say

ooo. Problem.

What you think is right may not be what he thinks is right.
Unless you know that you are right and he is wrong, of course. In that case, go for it. But then, he's thinking the same thing.
Of course, us Americans are always right. Problem solved.


Oh my.

a reply to: Phage

Whatever, I'm not sitting here arguing philosophy, or the 'true' nature of things. Country's have a right to protect their sovereignty, this person has given a man on the street prospective, and that he is tired of his neighborhood going to # because of the infiltration

quite a few extremist Muslims believe cutting our #en heads off on H.D T.V whilst our family's beg for our lives, is 'right', I'm not having that conversation when it comes to extremism, however if you'd like to you are more than welcome. How's the conversation go? "I get to keep my head but you can take my friends", "I get to keep half my head you get the other half".

There isn't a philosophical discussion to be had with these groups and groups of people undoubtedly infiltrating Europe right now. Often times I see you make quick one liners, that are contrary without you defining any position what so ever. So why don't you tell me where you stand and state it clearly instead of take pop shots from the hip.

a reply to: TechniXcality

I´m living close to the border of bavaria. Basically I can spit down the hill and it will land in bavaria but technically I´m still in Baden-Württemberg ;-)
Würzburg is 1.25-1.75h away from me if I take the Autobahn depending on traffic. I´m close friends with someone who´s father is american, he was based in Crailsheim and Ansbach, a big military installation of yours.

Turkish people are not that problematic in common but I know what you mean.

We have national pride, we´re just not showing it to every one. We are very proud of our work moral, technical advancements and traditions. We normally do not fly our flag, because yes, that´s a little bit mhm let´s call it we constantly get WW2 shoved down our throat. But lately, the last 10 years, more and more people will fly the german flag when there are big international sport events. Just lookup WM germany brasil you will be surprised.

We use every excuse to have a fest and get together like a fellow American once said ;-)

Sadly, but not many know this, we are not a sovereign country. We never got that status after WW2, some of it has to do with the government of your country but of course it has nothing to do with US citizens, it´s the government. We were never granted republic status, even if it´s called Bundesrepublik Deutschland. It´s a farce very few people know about.

Thank you for your kind words about my country. I´ve not had the chance to visit USA (was in Canada twice, have some family there) but my father made a bike tour through some of your states (3 months) and he was amazed by the vastness of your country and cultural differences between the states. He said american people are much easier to initiate smalltalk and make friendships with.

However, ramping up US military here would help nothing. To be honest, many people wish, from what I experienced, that the US based would be closed slowly after another. It´s just not cold war anymore but we reckon the strategic bases like rammstein that are valuable to americans. It´s just that some practices of your government on german soil, like grabbing up patents in the seventies and eighties for your governments own clandestine projects.

But we are getting way offtopic now ^^

a reply to: TechniXcality

Country's have a right to protect their sovereignty, this person has given a man on the street prospective, and that he is tired of his neighborhood going to # because of the infiltration

He is not a country though, is he?

quite a few extremist Muslims believe cutting our #en heads off on H.D T.V whilst our family's beg for our lives, is 'right', I'm not having that conversation when it comes to extremism,

You're not? Could have fooled me.

So why don't you tell me where you stand and state it clearly instead of take pop shots from the hip.

Sure. I think that classifying people based on their religion or place of origin is an expression of ignorance of the highest order.

Clear enough?

a reply to: Phage

Never implied he was a 'country' in fact I clearly stated he was giving a man on the street perspective. You're getting your signals crossed.

Further, I am making the point as to why I will not have that conversation, regarding extremism.

Lastly, I agree let's classify people by their actions. However you still haven't expressed what you think about the OP, or the topic at hand. You are continuing to argue towards moot points,it's a diversion tactic and a cheap one. Please define clearly how you feel about the mass exodus and the elements of extremism that are following, and clearly indicated by the OP.

The cobblers children haven't any shoes phage, I'd expect you to do better than this.

a reply to: Phage

You are both right and wrong.

Don´t be so hard on him. It´s not his fault. I don´t know how to express this without being rude but let´s try it.
I´m walking on glas now.
Those are the keywords most germans connect with USA.

People of USA
bold, loud and patriotistic, mostly on credit, basically the opposite of what our values are.

Government
We (consider this as what my impression of the collective of people I met in my life and their outspoken opinions)
have the impression that "gods blessed land", america the mighty, is sticking their nose into things that they don´t belong to. In fact, while upholding freedom (what is sold as freedom) they wreak havoc in places while thinking they help. But many problems arose just because of that intervention.

But I understand cultural differences and that not everyone is like the stereotype above, so it´s not his fault if he thinks for example more US troops would help us. It kind of is but I don´t blame him on his initial thoughts that are not originally his. If you get told that you live in the greates country ever, american way and such, all your life. Don´t get this wrong please, I tried real hard to get this over the table.

I don´t blame anyone, we are all products of our surroundings.

There is a Youtube channel I think he´s called SamWaltonMan, he summed that better up and he´s American.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Never implied he was a 'country' in fact I clearly stated he was giving a man on the street perspective. You're getting your signals crossed.

So then, was that bit about "Country's have a right to protect their sovereignty" in the same sentence just a meaningless throw away?

Please define clearly how you feel about the mass exodus and the elements of extremism that are following, and clearly indicated by the OP.

That is not what the OP is about though, is it? The OP is about a video bite of a single incident. Isn't it? A video which takes a somewhat biased stance based on a very common gesture. Does it not?

I think that out of a vast number of legitimate refugees and immigrants it is inevitable that some will be "undesirable". I also think that is true of the native population of any country. I think that denying legitimate refugees access does not accomplish anything but furthering their misery. I think that using the "undesirable" element to further xenophobic and racist agendas is deplorable.

Clear enough?

It´s more important to me that people read my post above about muslims. That would be great if some people would read this and understand you have to meet the people to judge or talk about them.
I thought about opening a thread but nah to many haters probably. Don´t have the linguistic toolset for such an operation, hardly get my gramatics and vocabular right so. I´m also tired of arguing with haters and people that only adress one sentence and start quote wars based on semantics.

a reply to: Phage

Listen to me,

I'm not going to wear the racist smear your putting on me, I am not a bigot nor do I support bigotry. I often times fight against anti American sentiment because of it's prevalence on these forums, however I am not in the 'America is always right crowd'.

I realize America has often times sacrificed moral compass for strategic positioning and resource allocation. I don't agree with Saudi being an American ally the list goes on and on. I still realize the west is at war, with fanaticism, that it is a real and cogent threat.

If we want to have chicken and the egg arguments , that's fine but I wish to not participate because it has very little value in the current situation. Their are undoubtedly large groups of extremists making their way west in this exodus, it would be the most ignorant thing and strategic failure to assume otherwise, and it is not racist or xenophobic, so sit there from the comfort of your American home, as I'm sure your doors are open to all refugees. Make your decrees, show your sense of compassion, which is dishonest at best. We are at war like it or not.

a reply to: TechniXcality

Listen to me,

I have been.

I don't agree with Saudi being an American ally the list goes on and on.

I don't agree with many things my government does. That does not mean that I cast aside the law.

Their are undoubtedly large groups of extremists making their way west in this exodus, it would be the most ignorant thing and strategic failure to assume otherwise,

Yes. And you assume that is not taken into consideration. No, our doors our do not open to all "refugees". Neither do yours.

and it is not racist or xenophobic

Right, the laws are not, but you would seem to be.

We are at war like it or not.

OORAH! Better that you know your true enemy than tilting at windmills, don't you think?

Clear enough?

a reply to: Phage

Tilting at windmills would be the very definition of your argument.I am not racist nor am I xenophobic, however that's all you keep saying like a broken record. You speak about the 'law' please which law are you referring to because you seem to be referencing some deep dark ambiguous concept; haha well it's Ill defined. Who is the 'true enemy', are we not at war?

a reply to: TechniXcality

You speak about the 'law' please which law are you referring to

Immigration and asylum law.

Who is the 'true enemy', are we not at war?

Here's a hint. The true enemy is not refugees and immigrants.
Presently, no. We are not at war. How long that lasts is an open question.

a reply to: Phage

Here's a hint. The true enemy is not refugees or immigrants.

I´ve not the impression that thats what he said or meant. He clearly wrote about ISIS in disguise of refugees.

a reply to: verschickter
And what is his implied remedy?

a reply to: Phage

Ok, we currently are still engaged with the war of terrorism therefor still technically at war. Also, we are fighting an undeclared war on Isis, which is my main concern in this discussion. Yes something must be done about the people who truly need help and asylum, but this open gap and flood allowing countless amount of people through is scary and also must be addressed first and foremost. Sitting here calling me racist is just wrong.

a reply to: TechniXcality

I'll repeat myself.
What is your remedy if not denying acceptance of refugees and immigrants en masse?
How do you identify a member of ISIS? I don't think they wear uniforms.

originally posted by: verschickter
a reply to: Phage

Here's a hint. The true enemy is not refugees or immigrants.

I´ve not the impression that thats what he said or meant. He clearly wrote about ISIS in disguise of refugees.

Thank you, and I have read your above post, and I know Muslims are not bad people they are generally normal people who just want what everyone else wants safety and prosperity. I apologize I haven't responded but I'm dealing with someone who will not drop the racist and bigotry diatribe. Thank you for your kind words, and yes perhaps a beef up of American troops is the wrong answer, but certainly something must be done at handling this situation better at all ends than is currently being employed.